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MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Well he also did not know that Narancia had the boss's daughter.

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Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...



which is why he went to go scope them out, bumped into narancia because he's an idiot who can't keep a low profile, and found out that they do in fact have the boss's daughter

Expect My Mom
Nov 18, 2013

by Smythe
they definitely thought Bruno had Trish, but needed to confirm. Trish is Polpo's business, Polpo dies and then Bruno's group goes missing the same day

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



I'm starting to think that this low-life thug might possibly not be the most rational thinker in the business.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
When Narancia started dropping nukes, Formaggio should've cheesed it. :v:

Pomplamoose
Jun 28, 2008

sirtommygunn posted:

get tiny, get stand to throw you out of the car like a softball, dismiss stand then resummon stand in position to catch you, place yourself gently onto roof, dismiss stand.

I don't think it was that complicated, he could have just grapped onto the doorframe before shrinking and climbed up to the roof as he got smaller.

But anyway, this got me thinking about how a lot of stands don't seem to take full advantage of the fact that there's a separate entity (often depticted as a "punching ghost" or other object, like a tiny plane) that I'll refer to as the "avatar" of the stand, to differentiate it for the "power" or effect of the stand. It seems like early on Araki played around a lot with the fact that the stand power could manifest as an avatar outside of the user's body. Some part examples are Star Platinum bringing things into Jotaro's cell, Silver Chariot being on top of the bed while Polnareff was under it. (IMO this was the first good stand battle in the series since up to that point it seemed like they were constantly changing the rules or having things happen off-camera/off-panel that decided the outcome.) Or the time they shrunk their stand's to go inside Joseph's brain. There are also lots of ambiguous moments like Jotaro grabbing onto a ledge with Star Platinum and pulling himself up, Jotaro getting behind N'doul without being detected (did he sprint, jump?) and in the final battle between Jotaro and DIO it was often hard to tell where the stand avatar was in relation to the user.
By part 4, stand ranges seemed to be more restrictive. I can only remember a few moments off hand where having a separate avatar was critical for Josuke or Kira in using their stands. Of course there's also stuff like Shigechi using harvest as a conveyer belt to climb up walls. In part 5 Gold Experience and Sticky fingers could both plausibly exist without a separate avatar. And I won't go into details, but there are stands in later parts that just stand or float near the user while their powers are active or they don't show an avatar at all for a stand power.

Now I'm not saying that having a punching ghost separate from the user's body is a bad thing, it's what makes stands unique from most other superhuman abilities. I'm just saying that it doesn't seem like this fact is always used to it's full potential.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Pomplamoose posted:

I don't think it was that complicated, he could have just grapped onto the doorframe before shrinking and climbed up to the roof as he got smaller.

But anyway, this got me thinking about how a lot of stands don't seem to take full advantage of the fact that there's a separate entity (often depticted as a "punching ghost" or other object, like a tiny plane) that I'll refer to as the "avatar" of the stand, to differentiate it for the "power" or effect of the stand. It seems like early on Araki played around a lot with the fact that the stand power could manifest as an avatar outside of the user's body. Some part examples are Star Platinum bringing things into Jotaro's cell, Silver Chariot being on top of the bed while Polnareff was under it. (IMO this was the first good stand battle in the series since up to that point it seemed like they were constantly changing the rules or having things happen off-camera/off-panel that decided the outcome.) Or the time they shrunk their stand's to go inside Joseph's brain. There are also lots of ambiguous moments like Jotaro grabbing onto a ledge with Star Platinum and pulling himself up, Jotaro getting behind N'doul without being detected (did he sprint, jump?) and in the final battle between Jotaro and DIO it was often hard to tell where the stand avatar was in relation to the user.
By part 4, stand ranges seemed to be more restrictive. I can only remember a few moments off hand where having a separate avatar was critical for Josuke or Kira in using their stands. Of course there's also stuff like Shigechi using harvest as a conveyer belt to climb up walls. In part 5 Gold Experience and Sticky fingers could both plausibly exist without a separate avatar. And I won't go into details, but there are stands in later parts that just stand or float near the user while their powers are active or they don't show an avatar at all for a stand power.

Now I'm not saying that having a punching ghost separate from the user's body is a bad thing, it's what makes stands unique from most other superhuman abilities. I'm just saying that it doesn't seem like this fact is always used to it's full potential.

One thing the floating punchghosts do is indicate the physical strength of a Stand outside its superpowers. So Gold Experience is kind of weedy, while Sticky Fingers is a wall of armour and muscle. That's as much a part of Stand battles as whatever gimmick they have, particularly since so many of those gimmicks are about getting into/staying out of punching range.

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009
I suspect if Formaggio had just waited in the back then he would've been caught carelessly by Narancia if he had started searching for CO2 and noticed that something in the car was breathing besides him.

Momomo posted:

Formaggio did the dumbest possible thing because he knew what series he was in. Remember that the main antagonist of the last part was found because he yelled out his real name in public.

Hey now, he had to say his name, it was FATE :P the same things happened over and over so of course he had to mention his name again just like all of the previous times

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

The cat flower stand was just part of its body.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
I actually laughed when Formaggio was like "This kid must be smarter than he looks." And the answer is no, no he isn't. Narancia might be the dumbest Jobro so far. He's definitely dumber than Polnareff and he's definitely fighting Okuyasu for the spot.

Kaiser Mazoku
Mar 24, 2011

Didn't you see it!? Couldn't you see my "spirit"!?
I find Formaggio, a character in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. thinking "These items must be for a woman" hilarious.

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009

Onmi posted:

I actually laughed when Formaggio was like "This kid must be smarter than he looks." And the answer is no, no he isn't. Narancia might be the dumbest Jobro so far. He's definitely dumber than Polnareff and he's definitely fighting Okuyasu for the spot.

Narancia's not book smart and he's not even necessarily street smart, but he's definitely fight smart, and fight smart is good because what it amounts to is "loving kill the bastard first, ask questions later"

Okuyasu's issue was that he tended to try and overthink too much and was at his best when he just decided to go with his gut. Narancia's weakness so far seems to be not going with his gut fast enough because hoo boy was he almost successful in loving riddling Formaggio with bullets a few times already. Formaggio is lucky his stand's sword can block bullets as quickly as it does.

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK
Sep 11, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick

Nap Ghost

FirstAidKite posted:

I suspect if Formaggio had just waited in the back then he would've been caught carelessly by Narancia if he had started searching for CO2 and noticed that something in the car was breathing besides him.


Hey now, he had to say his name, it was FATE :P the same things happened over and over so of course he had to mention his name again just like all of the previous times

carbon dioxide is emitted when a car engine is running and burning gasoline, so that probably would be a false positive masking his prescence unless it was like flying around in the car, rather than doing external surveillance

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

exploded mummy posted:

carbon dioxide is emitted when a car engine is running and burning gasoline, so that probably would be a false positive masking his prescence unless it was like flying around in the car, rather than doing external surveillance

Narancia could determine relative rates of respiration and the rats couldn't perfectly mask it, plus there's no guarantee that carbon dioxide wouldn't make Formaggio breathe harder if it was enough to mask him from Narancia's stand at normal rates of breathing.

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009

exploded mummy posted:

carbon dioxide is emitted when a car engine is running and burning gasoline, so that probably would be a false positive masking his prescence unless it was like flying around in the car, rather than doing external surveillance

Yeah but I figure he'd probably be a little weirded out if he noticed the engine emissions were coming from the back right seat and were also extremely tiny in comparison to the rest of the engine emissions coming from the engine proper

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
I wonder what would have happened if they had sent Fugo or Abbachio to get the stuff instead. Wonder if they would have been able to bluff Formaggio.

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009
Formaggio shows up in the back of the car and starts talking poo poo to Fugo

Fugo just immediately shivs him right then and there, no hesitation



Formaggio shows up in the back of the car and starts talking poo poo to Abbachio

Abbachio does something crazy like using his stand to telefrag Formaggio by playing back his moments in the same exact space or something

Patware
Jan 3, 2005

i'm really enjoying this dynamic where just about every character in the plot is walking in knowing stands are a thing, even people who don't have them themselves

Kaiser Mazoku
Mar 24, 2011

Didn't you see it!? Couldn't you see my "spirit"!?
I'm sure the sudden appearance of spooky ghosts in random people across the world would have made at least one local news station.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

FirstAidKite posted:

Narancia's not book smart and he's not even necessarily street smart, but he's definitely fight smart, and fight smart is good because what it amounts to is "loving kill the bastard first, ask questions later"

Okuyasu's issue was that he tended to try and overthink too much and was at his best when he just decided to go with his gut. Narancia's weakness so far seems to be not going with his gut fast enough because hoo boy was he almost successful in loving riddling Formaggio with bullets a few times already. Forgmaggio is lucky his stand's sword can block bullets as quickly as it does.

I agree with all of the this.

Mimesweeper
Mar 11, 2009

Smellrose

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

I agree with all of the this.

That and he almost made it to the phone in time, including shooting open the container of full size coins. Narancia owns under pressure.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Yeah, Narancia has one of the most limiting Stands shown, say, post 3, since it's basically one part of Bad Company and kind of something like how Sheer Heart Attack works - but is incredibly good in using his stand, while nobody else seems to use theirs properly. He basically works like a typical JoJo's enemy where, the crappier the Stand, the better they are at using them, and vice versa.

edit: Bucciarati is the only protagonist I've seen with an OP Stand that seems to be perfect at using it from the start.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
Josuke was pretty good with Crazy Diamond from the outset.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Josuke was pretty good with Crazy Diamond from the outset.

Crazy Diamond was more of a punchghost thing that I wouldn't really call OP. Jotaro can stop time and started off figuring out how to get toys, and none of the other part 4 protagonists like Koichi with more adaptable Stands much figured out how to do things with them.

Expect My Mom
Nov 18, 2013

by Smythe
Josuke does some absolute baller stuff with Crazy Diamond, including creating new forms of existence, put some respect on his name

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009
There are certain things Josuke does that are definite evolutions of his earlier skills, with particular standouts being things like trapping Highway Star in the car being an extension of his earlier bottle trick with his mom and Aqua Necklace, or Josuke's homing bullets being a natural extension of his earlier attempt to follow Kira by healing his hand and chasing it, though these aren't specifically presented as big power-ups or evolutions in the sense that Echoes evolves, just more emphasis on what he is capable of and testing out how far he can stretch it

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe
Having a god tier stand makes you lazy. Having a scrub stand gets you motivated.

It's basically Rocky: the horror anime show.

hooman fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Dec 10, 2018

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
I am very disappointed at how woefully underutilized Echoes Act 2 is. :argh:

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Echoes Act 2 is S H I T

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Onmi posted:

I actually laughed when Formaggio was like "This kid must be smarter than he looks." And the answer is no, no he isn't. Narancia might be the dumbest Jobro so far. He's definitely dumber than Polnareff and he's definitely fighting Okuyasu for the spot.
He says this right after narancia runs head first into a glass door and then almost dies from getting trapped in between said glass door closing on him because he's too slow

Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 19, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

hooman posted:

Having a god tier stand makes you lazy. Having a scrub stand gets you motivated.

It's basically Rocky: the horror anime show.

See: Shigechi being in a position to easily kill Josuke, Okuyasu and Kira using Harvest. Like, in absolutely any other hands, Harvest is ludicrously dangerous just because no one can fight 500+ tiny things who are apparently strong enough that if even one gets through, can maim you.

Cicadalek
May 8, 2006

Trite, contrived, mediocre, milquetoast, amateurish, infantile, cliche-and-gonorrhea-ridden paean to conformism, eye-fucked me, affront to humanity, war crime, should *literally* be tried for war crimes, talentless fuckfest, pedantic, listless, savagely boring, just one repulsive laugh after another

comedyblissoption posted:

He says this right after narancia runs head first into a glass door and then almost dies from getting trapped in between said glass door closing on him because he's too slow

and then suffering countless lacerations for shattering the door while he's wedged in it

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011


I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Nthing that Bakugou's voice actor was the perfect call for Ghiaccio.

Sockser
Jun 28, 2007

This world only remembers the results!




Darko posted:


edit: Bucciarati is the only protagonist I've seen with an OP Stand that seems to be perfect at using it from the start.

Bucciarati presumably picked up the “unzip your own arm so you can punch further like that Nintendo game” trick from Giogio, so I’m not sure I’d call him like an absolute master of his stand powers

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Mimesweeper posted:

That, and as someone mentioned before, just staying small and hiding in the loving car until Narancia drove back to the hideout would have worked perfectly. Starting a fight to torture out the info was the dumbest possible idea.
The other thing people haven't pointed out is that the antagonists have a limited time window to find the Boss' daughter. It's a lot faster to just interrogate a bunch of people instead of hide in peoples' cars for potentially the entire day to see if your hunch was right.

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013

Expect My Mom posted:

I think a good glimpse into Araki views gender in his art is that he's admitted that whenever hes looking through fashion magazines for clothing or poses reference, gender isnt a barrier to him. Giorno and Bruno are constantly showing their breasts, Mista is always showing his midriff. Later on in Part 7, theres like a volume cover of two male protagonists, one holding the other up in embrace and grinding their genitals together and I think people have found the exact reference he used and its a heterosexual pair

So to me everyone in JoJo is queer until proven otherwise. So Koichi is a weird outlier

Do you have that picture and reference? I’m so curious now.

Expect My Mom
Nov 18, 2013

by Smythe

Thumbtacks posted:

Do you have that picture and reference? I’m so curious now.
My memory was bad, they're not exactly grinding genitals, but You Get It. '

:siren: Spoilers for people who don't want to see future character designs :siren:








Araki also really likes sensually posing characters with their Stands


Ranzear
Jul 25, 2013

Narancia had been loving about for probably hours by that point and probably even said out loud that he felt like he was being tailed. Probably was because Narancia's stand did detect Formaggio, it just didn't make any sense.

Formaggio decided to change tactics when it was pretty clear that Narancia was gonna keep going in circles.

This is probably my favorite fight in Jojo now, because it's presented like "Formaggio susses out the enemy stand" instead of the norm.

Pomplamoose
Jun 28, 2008

Expect My Mom posted:

My memory was bad, they're not exactly grinding genitals, but You Get It. '

:siren: Spoilers for people who don't want to see future character designs :siren:








Araki also really likes sensually posing characters with their Stands




Do you have a link to a page that has all of these compiled?

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Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013
It’s really cool seeing those, I never realized that some jojo poses are dumb fashion poses but it makes perfect sense

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