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I'm bummed out we're never going to see a full on comic book faithful Bullseye costume
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Dec 8, 2018 13:59
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OrthoTrot posted:I think there's a weird tendency of a kind of nerd media consumer to call everything they don't like unexplained or, worse, a plothole. Well, Lost's issue was that there was a lot unexplained. The island was a vague bottle (or was it the cork?). The weird stuff that happened was all just magic. Which is fine if your show was about the journey and not the destination, but that show went on for years and was one of the most talked-about and speculated-on shows in history, and they had to know that their audience was expecting solid explanations. It was kinda lovely to watch all these people try to connect the dots for all those years and it turns out all the dots just made up a scribble. Laterite posted:You can see the same thing happening with ASOIAF/Game of Thrones. The first scene of both the book and TV show is the dead returning to life and killing humans. Confronting that threat has always what the story's been leading to. It's just surrounded by layers of war, intrigue, murder, dragons, sorceresses, and people baked in pies, all of which beget their own theories and wishful thinking in the fandom. Now that the focus is narrowing, people are getting restless because it's not matching what they had in their head for decades. I don't think that's what's been happening at all. People don't like the stuff written for the show because everything the writers have produced that wasn't directly from the books has been mostly garbage, and that's been true throughout the show's entire run. And no more books are being produced, and the last one that came out was pretty weak and didn't push the plot forward much. I think most people are pretty stoked to see the war with the undead finally happen regardless, though.
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Dec 8, 2018 16:58
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Phenotype posted:I don't think that's what's been happening at all. People don't like the stuff written for the show because everything the writers have produced that wasn't directly from the books has been mostly garbage, and that's been true throughout the show's entire run. And no more books are being produced, and the last one that came out was pretty weak and didn't push the plot forward much. I think most people are pretty stoked to see the war with the undead finally happen regardless, though. Yeah, like that weird subplot with Jamie back in season whatever with the sand snake trio or whatever that went absolutely nowhere. It had the holy tri-facto of a bad production, bad plot and bad writing.
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Dec 8, 2018 17:05
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Swapping Sansa in for fake Arya/Jeyne Poole was sooo bad too. Just gently caress my character progression up fam
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Dec 8, 2018 17:06
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The resolution of a story built out of revelation and surprise will always be less satisfying than the first half because there will come a point where expansive discovery and development end and the story starts to shrink back down to get to the end. That’s usually true no matter how well the execution is handled.
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Dec 8, 2018 17:13
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there wouldn't have been half as many complaints if it turned out the island was a chunk of hell and richard alpert was a scientist from the future who built the smoke monster to keep out sinners. e: sorry this is so off-topic. Since this thread is destined to die and become a Disney thread eventually, are there any actual SHOWS they have planned by the time the Netflix ones die off? I remember the initial Netflix announcement was a big thing, with Daredevil, JJ, Iron Fist, and Luke Cage plus The Defenders all scheduled for release. I haven't heard anything from Disney. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 8, 2018 |
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Dec 8, 2018 17:17
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm bummed out we're never going to see a full on comic book faithful Bullseye costume I just wanted him to show up in Punisher. 
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Dec 8, 2018 17:44
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Vakal posted:I just wanted him to show up in Punisher. And then he haphazardly threw everything....?
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Dec 8, 2018 17:49
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Laterite posted:Yeah, the last ~1.5 seasons were basically a huge exposition dump to wrap up all the sprawling plotlines and unraveled threads that Cuse & Lindelof had created over the years. It had gotten away from them at some point, and the writer's strike taking place just as the show was peaking didn't help. Personally, if it had ended with Through The Looking Glass, it would have gone down as the greatest series finale of all time. But, the show had a resolution nonetheless. Headcanon is poison. You're correct.
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Dec 8, 2018 19:33
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Phenotype posted:Well, Lost's issue was that there was a lot unexplained. The island was a vague bottle (or was it the cork?). The weird stuff that happened was all just magic. Which is fine if your show was about the journey and not the destination, but that show went on for years and was one of the most talked-about and speculated-on shows in history, and they had to know that their audience was expecting solid explanations. It was kinda lovely to watch all these people try to connect the dots for all those years and it turns out all the dots just made up a scribble. This is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. The island was quite explicitly described as a portal to the land of the dead, guarded by gods. Different characters give different metaphors of a way of thinking about that and somehow people think that's an inconsistency. As if once exposition phase has been entered everyone must just turn to the camera and all explain the lore in neutral terms. You are allowed to think magic and religion being core parts of the story isn't what you wanted. But it, within the logic the show had built up, all hangs together well enough. I'm not saying it's good because it isn't. But the insistence that the reason it's bad is due to an incomplete explanation is telling, in my opinion.
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Dec 8, 2018 19:34
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Vakal posted:I just wanted him to show up in Punisher. This owns I think one thing Daredevil succeeded in was realistically walking the audience through the grounded reasons why the distinction between ‘vigilante’ and ‘costumed vigilante’ is an important one and why moving forward it’s likely Matt would have probably just gone with some lightly armored plain black swat gear and black eye mask. I love the Devil suit but he has moved past his need for heavy handed symbolism by literally just making his hands heavier (with the rope!). It’s very well crafted.
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Dec 8, 2018 19:41
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Phenotype posted:there wouldn't have been half as many complaints if it turned out the island was a chunk of hell and richard alpert was a scientist from the future who built the smoke monster to keep out sinners. Aren't there going to be some kind of Loki and Scarlet Witch shows?
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Dec 8, 2018 19:44
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Viewers guessed the ending after the first season of Lost, which the creaters denied in an interview around that time. The problem with shows like Lost is that these shows rely on mysteries to keep the audience watching. But the mysteries can only be stretched out so far before the audience gets bored and move on to something else. And for the viewers that are still watching, they are probably going to end up disappointed with the show's ending.
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Dec 8, 2018 19:50
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Joe Chill posted:Viewers guessed the ending after the first season of Lost, which the creaters denied in an interview around that time. Was their guess 'everyone is dead all along' b/c that is incorrect
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Dec 8, 2018 19:56
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Eh, I remember a lot of "everything has a scientific(ish) explanation!" kinda lines going around during early Lost, so when the series drifted away from that in the last couple of seasons people were disappointed even if you could see it coming. Also the last couple of seasons were also kinda not good so there's that too. Edit: going back on topic, the only series I see potential outta in that announced Disney lineup is the solo Loki one if they do Journey into Mystery. Scarlet Witch and Vision, really? Dias fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 8, 2018 |
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Dec 8, 2018 20:13
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esperterra posted:Was their guess 'everyone is dead all along' b/c that is incorrect Close, everyone was in purgatory was the big theory. The show's finale ended up more complicated than that but that's what basically happened.
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Dec 8, 2018 20:19
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Dias posted:Edit: going back on topic, the only series I see potential outta in that announced Disney lineup is the solo Loki one if they do Journey into Mystery. Scarlet Witch and Vision, really? Hm, that's a good list of characters I don't give a gently caress about. I guess if Loki is actually played by Tom Hiddleston then it has potential just based on his acting, but I was never a huge fan of his in comics or the movies. e: Oh, and Bucky and Falcon too. That's right, I heard about this in the BSS TV thread, I think. Add those two to the list of super uninteresting characters that I don't want to see TV shows about.
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Dec 8, 2018 20:21
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Joe Chill posted:Close, everyone was in purgatory was the big theory. The show's finale ended up more complicated than that but that's what basically happened. ...but they weren't. The after life scenes were WAY after the events in the island. The island itself was a real world thing.
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Dec 8, 2018 20:21
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Why are people defending Lost in this thread of all places. Let your evil take root elsewhere, ye cursed creatures!
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Dec 9, 2018 00:34
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Lurdiak posted:Why are people defending Lost in this thread of all places. Let your evil take root elsewhere, ye cursed creatures! It's been decades and people still can't figure out the ending, it's not their fault. Phenotype posted:Hm, that's a good list of characters I don't give a gently caress about. I guess if Loki is actually played by Tom Hiddleston then it has potential just based on his acting, but I was never a huge fan of his in comics or the movies. Yeah, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Falcon and Bucky are probably the top 4 lamest characters in the MCU, and they're getting solo series. Vision only ever had one good story (and it relied on a TON of Marvel lore to work), Scarlet Witch's thing is being a massive Plot Device, and Cap-Lites are even less interesting than OG Cap. The only reason I hold on to some hope for Loki is because Loki: Journey Into Mystery wouldn't be too hard to adapt and it's a good arc.
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Dec 9, 2018 01:07
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Phenotype posted:Well, Lost's issue was that there was a lot unexplained. The island was a vague bottle (or was it the cork?). The weird stuff that happened was all just magic. Which is fine if your show was about the journey and not the destination, but that show went on for years and was one of the most talked-about and speculated-on shows in history, and they had to know that their audience was expecting solid explanations. It was kinda lovely to watch all these people try to connect the dots for all those years and it turns out all the dots just made up a scribble. The island is the source of life, death, and rebirth. This is stated in the show incredibly clearly, in those words, but people still go "but what was the island? This show sucks!" mostly because despite the show literally starting with a loving magic smoke monster, they thought everything would be explained by science when a clear goddamn throughline from like, episode four onward is that in order to grow, you need to have some measure of balance between science and faith. It was a magic island. Magic things can happen there. Battlestar Galactica had this exact same loving problem. It dealt with themes of faith and religion and people willfully ignored that, and then got mad whenever it came up and dismissed it as a hail mary by the writers or a plot hole when it had been present from the very beginning. Joe Chill posted:Viewers guessed the ending after the first season of Lost, which the creaters denied in an interview around that time. Joe Chill posted:Close, everyone was in purgatory was the big theory. The show's finale ended up more complicated than that but that's what basically happened. And people STILL thought it was purgatory. That's not on the show. The show straight-up said it wasn't purgatory. I am shocked, SHOCKED that this didn't happen more with Daredevil, honestly. Maybe it's because Matt's religion has been a part of the comics from the start so it wasn't a surprise when it became part of the show, and maybe it's because we're not given any concrete evidence that god exists in the show, but any time any show deals with religion, grognards get all insufferable about it. I'm a queer person on HRT. A TON religious people want me dead. I unabashedly hate religion for giving cover to lovely people who use a book that tells them to be nice as an excuse to murder people like me, but I don't get all militant atheist about the shows I watch dealing in faith and calling any act of god a plot hole. In the fiction of some shows, there is a god, and fine. Whatever.
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Dec 9, 2018 02:17
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Wait, hold on, why was the guy who killed Bruce Wayne's parents writing on Lost?
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Dec 9, 2018 02:22
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Whoa there, the island stuff happened but the flash sideways was the afterlife and they couldn’t move on till they all came together so it kinda was purgatory. Wah wah wah
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Dec 9, 2018 02:23
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Dias posted:...but they weren't. The after life scenes were WAY after the events in the island. The island itself was a real world thing. Yeah the characters are not dead at the beginning of the show. The island was a real place but it was also a spiritual place which had something to do with the afterlife. I said "characters are dead and are in purgatory" fan theory is basically the same idea, not accurate, but the jest of what happened. I think thats pretty fare considering how the show ended. Wow Vividliquid. I won't have brought up Lost if people are angry about it holy poo poo. Joe Chill fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 03:09
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I just think making the then-called "flash-sideways" into an afterlife didn't add anything for me and provided fuel to these misconceptions, so I think it was a mistake.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:13
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Vakal posted:I just wanted him to show up in Punisher.  Steve Dillon. And, if wikipedia got the cause right, gently caress the appendix.RE: Lost 
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Dec 9, 2018 03:24
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Lycus posted:I just think making the then-called "flash-sideways" into an afterlife didn't add anything for me and provided fuel to these misconceptions, so I think it was a mistake. I think those narratives didn't add anything to the show, full stop. They're a complete irrelevance.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:38
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Joe Chill posted:Wow Vividliquid. I won't have brought up Lost if people are angry about it holy poo poo.
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Dec 9, 2018 03:39
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Just because the Island wasn't purgatory doesn't mean it always wasn't purgatory. It would be very much in the shows writing style for it to be that they had some idea of it being purgatory in season 1, and then decided against it when the show took off.
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Dec 9, 2018 15:33
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Biggest crime of LOST was killing Locke and keeping him dead for the rest of the series so they could do the Man in Black doppelganger.
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Dec 9, 2018 18:41
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I wonder how much the “the island from Lost was purgatory” misconception was fuelled by the fact that only about a day or two after the Lost finale, in the UK the popular show Ashes to Ashes also ended with the twist conclusion that everything in both it and its predecessor Life on Mars did in fact take place in purgatory.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:27
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Nah it was always kinda there cause it’s an island with mysterious things. I always got a laugh at that one MS paint about Locke flying the island and lo and behold they basically fly the loving island through time.
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Dec 10, 2018 01:30
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It's amazing what you can pick up from a tv show if you're paying attention to it. Vividliquid is pretty perceptive, I think. EDIT: LividLiquid. Stupid typo/autocorrect! Sorry. CAPT. Rainbowbeard fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 01:39
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I really loved how Daredevil’s exploration of Catholicism really for the most part ignores God and really drives home that in essence everything is centered around guilt. Everything Matt does comes from this two-sides coin of Justice/Guilt which is why he is at his most engaged as Murdoch in the courtroom, fighting for his clients in a suit and tie, or when he’s brawlin’ with like 12 dudes in a staircase, somewhat less metaphorically fighting for them . I’ve decided to rewatch Daredevil and the Defenders, because I owe it to Charlie Cox. I really love this show and genuinely had more fun watching this than any of my other favorite shows in the last year (Preacher was a close 2nd, with Punisher impressively pulling in Top 5).
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Dec 10, 2018 01:58
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Bust Rodd posted:I really loved how Daredevil’s exploration of Catholicism really for the most part ignores God and really drives home that in essence everything is centered around guilt. Everything Matt does comes from this two-sides coin of Justice/Guilt which is why he is at his most engaged as Murdoch in the courtroom, fighting for his clients in a suit and tie, or when he’s brawlin’ with like 12 dudes in a staircase, somewhat less metaphorically fighting for them . Yeah Daredevil was awesome and even S2, at lovely as as its lowest point got, it was still good overall.
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Dec 10, 2018 02:32
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Vividliquid is pretty perceptive, I think.
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Dec 10, 2018 02:36
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LividLiquid posted:Can I ask if there's a reason people are calling me this? It happened twice, I guess once was a dude misreading your name and the other one was a dude poking fun at whoever misread your name first. That or the Brazzers av is making people think Vivid instead of Livid because...y'know. BiggerBoat posted:Yeah Daredevil was awesome and even S2, at lovely as as its lowest point got, it was still good overall. S2 had great moments (basically everything Punisher) surrounded by incredibly boring ninja garbage. I agree that it's still good overall, mostly because it didn't do the LCS1 thing of having a good first half and just becoming trash in its back half.
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Dec 10, 2018 03:17
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LividLiquid posted:Can I ask if there's a reason people are calling me this? It was the autocorrect on my phone.
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Dec 10, 2018 04:10
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Dias posted:It happened twice, I guess once was a dude misreading your name and the other one was a dude poking fun at whoever misread your name first. i still can't believe they did the most boring thing possible in LC S1 of devising Special Anti-Luke Cage Bullets instead of.....anything else. Maria even makes a point to say "Well, have you tried drowning him?" or something similar at one point. One thing that was missing from this season was Lawyer Matt Murdoch, which was something that brought a nice other side to him, and his defense of the Punisher in season 2 was great poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2018 05:47
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If they had replaced the entire magic bullets plot lines with 3 episodes of Mariah trying to trap Luke in increasingly horrific torture scenarios (drowning, burning him with acid, burying him alive) it probably would have been a better series. Also it’s been long enough that I can safely say Diamond back just sucked the wind out of the room and is probably the least interesting Netflix Marvel character. Also the extremely tone def “residents of Harlem root for police against their own favorite son, Luke Cage” just needed another pass in the writer’s room. I’m also sad that we never see anything bad happen to Mariah’s horrible bitch mom
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Dec 10, 2018 11:13
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