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Defenestrategy posted:How is anyone supposed to get a job these days without knowing someone or having a ridiculous amount of certs and exp?
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Dec 10, 2018 15:46
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I haven’t worked at a Big Corp in so long I forgot what December actually played out like. All projects stop, all changes are frozen , and nobody does jack poo poo until mid January. Supposedly after the 15th all the executive leaders leave for the year and it will snowball down to the rest of the leaders. So I will do permanent review shot till I am tired of it and then I will post post post on company time?
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Dec 10, 2018 15:46
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If folks aren't out on PTO I encourage front line management and up to do talent review during this time, and all our ICs to pick a tech debt item to automate away.
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Dec 10, 2018 15:48
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Vulture Culture posted:Are you interviewing for entry-level positions? This shouldn't be true for any experienced person with a good resume Yea, everything from Help Desk to Admin. I don't really have a preference because, without 10+ years experience I don't have a shot at the red/blue team jobs I want.
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Dec 10, 2018 15:57
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Defenestrategy posted:Yea, everything from Help Desk to Admin. I don't really have a preference because, without 10+ years experience I don't have a shot at the red/blue team jobs I want. You don't need 10+ years for that, I was doing it after 3. You do need more than a year of small shop IT generalist for that, and you do need either training or experience in that specific discipline. I'm not going to hire someone into that role who has no clue what they're doing and things self-taught is enough.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:06
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Defenestrategy posted:Yea, everything from Help Desk to Admin. I don't really have a preference because, without 10+ years experience I don't have a shot at the red/blue team jobs I want. What's your current experience level? You should be able to get an entry level job with an Associates. Might also want to look outside your immediate area if you aren't already.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:21
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CLAM DOWN posted:You don't need 10+ years for that, I was doing it after 3. You do need more than a year of small shop IT generalist for that, and you do need either training or experience in that specific discipline. I'm not going to hire someone into that role who has no clue what they're doing and things self-taught is enough. I was exaggerating a bit, but all the job postings for security analyst/pen tester/whatever I find have a minimum requirement of greater than five years doing security specifically and usually a CISSP requirement. edit: Vargatron posted:What's your current experience level? You should be able to get an entry level job with an Associates. Might also want to look outside your immediate area if you aren't already. Bachelors in IT and one year doing small shop IT.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:21
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Defenestrategy posted:I was exaggerating a bit, but all the job postings for security analyst/pen tester/whatever I find have a minimum requirement of greater than five years doing security specifically and usually a CISSP requirement. I wouldn't hire someone to be a pentester with this. Not even close. Get your foot in the door somewhere with in-house training in cybersecurity, etc. You don't need a CISSP. Do the CEH course if your org can't afford SANS.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:25
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CLAM DOWN posted:Get your foot in the door somewhere with in-house training in cybersecurity, etc. This is the route I'm trying to do, which goes around to the original post of, " My bros can get their HR to look at me but randos wont even email me, wtf yall." edit: quote:Do the CEH course if your org can't afford SANS. Really? I heard people think the CEH is garbage and not worth it. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Dec 10, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 16:27
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^^^ it's better than nothing, SANS is by far preferable but they are super expensive.Defenestrategy posted:This is the route I'm trying to do, which goes around to the original post of, The point is that you should be trying to find a non security role, then do in-house training in security...
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Dec 10, 2018 16:30
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CLAM DOWN posted:The point is that you should be trying to find a non security role, then do in-house training in security... Defenestrategy posted:Yea, everything from Help Desk to Admin.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:31
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Defenestrategy posted:Bachelors in IT and one year doing small shop IT. The market you're in is probably over saturated. A bachelor's degree should be fine for entry level stuff but you're probably looking at around 3 years to get into a Jr. Sysadmin job or equivalent. I'd see if you could make a lateral move to a larger company that might have better advancement/cert opportunities. Edit: Oh you're going for a infosec job, can't help you there.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:32
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You literally talked about looking for a pentesting job and red/blue team stuff, so you're being a little confusing.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:36
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Defenestrategy posted:Yea, everything from Help Desk to Admin. I don't really have a preference because, without 10+ years experience I don't have a shot at the red/blue team jobs I want. What does your resume look like? I was having a similar experience (though, with less relevant education, and more small-shop experience), until I reworked my resume and cover letter. I recommend askamanager.com for resume and cover letter writing. Have you tried looking outside of your geographical area, too? Willingness to move can get you pretty far.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:38
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Getting your foot onto the door in infosec starting from nothing is going to be extremely hard. It’s been my experience that these teams also have minimal turn over due to high pay and other debatable “trends” with employees of these teams. The most practical thing is to do something else it ops related while you train and search for that first infosec gig. It’s your life though and people do make the leap right off. You are just goin go to have to be unusually impressive on some way or be lucky.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:50
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Also, it's not at all unusual that interviews within your personal and professional network are much easier to land. For some reason this makes some folks uncomfortable, but it's the reality in all fields and outside the realm of job hunting, too. When you're looking for a landscaper / contractor / whatever, do you just randomly hit one up, or do you ask your friends for recommendations? Having a friend who will vouch for you and get your resume pushed to the stop of the stack is a huge advantage. In all those interviews you're not getting, chances are a few of the candidates were also referred by an employee, putting them at least slightly ahead of you. Developing a professional network is one of the most important things you can do for your career.
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Dec 10, 2018 16:57
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Docjowles posted:Also, it's not at all unusual that interviews within your personal and professional network are much easier to land. For some reason this makes some folks uncomfortable, but it's the reality in all fields and outside the realm of job hunting, too. When you're looking for a landscaper / contractor / whatever, do you just randomly hit one up, or do you ask your friends for recommendations? Having a friend who will vouch for you and get your resume pushed to the stop of the stack is a huge advantage. In all those interviews you're not getting, chances are a few of the candidates were also referred by an employee, putting them at least slightly ahead of you. Developing a professional network is one of the most important things you can do for your career. It's this. What you're seeing isn't abnormal. The recommendations to work on your resume and to look outside your area are on point. Being able to move around in IT is especially important. With the employment rate in IT, you should theoretically have the advantage right now. Realistically, this industry puts a lot on experience and no one wants to hire an entry-level employee and train them up. IT is generally looked at as a cost center, which means when they actually get approval to hire someone they need someone who can hit the ground running on day one. It didn't always used to be this way, but that's where were at now.
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Dec 10, 2018 17:07
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Sickening posted:Getting your foot onto the door in infosec starting from nothing is going to be extremely hard. Ours is fairly high turnover, they make more than the other IT departments but maybe it's not enough compared to market.
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Dec 10, 2018 17:12
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CLAM DOWN posted:You literally talked about looking for a pentesting job and red/blue team stuff, so you're being a little confusing. My bad, it does come off a little weird now that Ive re read it. 1) I really want info sec jobs, but from looking at many of those jobs no one wants people with no job experience doing security 2) knowing the above, Ive applied for entry level jobs from help desk guy to jr. network admin and am having little success outside of friends recommending me first Edit: thanks for the advice guys.
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Dec 10, 2018 17:25
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Also, if you are having trouble finding a job, look for an MSP to work at. They generally suck but they'll also generally hire just about anyone.
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Dec 10, 2018 17:25
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Defenestrategy posted:How is anyone supposed to get a job these days without knowing someone or having a ridiculous amount of certs and exp? If 4/100 is not a hyperbole you should redo your resume and do a few practice interviews to rule out any big problems. Your resume should be a showcase of your achievements not just a list of experience. You should be editing it some for each job you apply to, and make sure to use some of the wording from the job post. Ideally you would be referred by a friend, or an aquaintance, or ask someone on linkedin instead of applying directly. Always be positive.
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Dec 10, 2018 17:40
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Internet Explorer posted:Also, if you are having trouble finding a job, look for an MSP to work at. They generally suck but they'll also generally hire just about anyone.
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Dec 10, 2018 18:29
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angry armadillo posted:I do indeed. I have my monthly catchup with my boss today so I'll mention it took great efforts to get FM to even pay attention to the fact that I want to dig the floor up and stick stuff under there... when really their alarm bells should be going off straight away and rightly so. Hire a civils firm to do this for you. But for reference: https://www.linesearchbeforeudig.co.uk/, https://www.ournetwork.openreach.co.uk/locating-our-network/letting-us-know-about-streetworks.aspx
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Dec 10, 2018 19:10
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https://twitter.com/cfiessinger/status/1072166154561454080 lol Teams is now only beaten by Skype for companies as chat apps go
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Dec 10, 2018 20:17
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Kashuno posted:https://twitter.com/cfiessinger/status/1072166154561454080 I haven’t read any details on that survey but I am going to go ahead and say that it’s pretty flawed.
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Dec 10, 2018 20:19
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It was conducted by Spiceworks, so take that for what it's worth.
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Dec 10, 2018 20:25
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If it's Spiceworks then "we can use it for no extra cost" is the highest weighted category amongst the people who post there, with far more importance attached to it than "is it good".
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Dec 10, 2018 20:27
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Okay folks, these fully walled/private/soundproof stalls that my company has for the bathrooms are loving great. I can go full burn without fear my neighbor hearing me or vice verse. I am living peak life right now.
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Dec 10, 2018 21:27
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Good, uh, 'facilities' are an important contributor to my level of productivity
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Dec 10, 2018 21:31
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angry armadillo posted:The real question is: Maybe it's because I'm American but I am having a ton of trouble parsing these posts. What exactly is going on and what do you mean by duct? Did you bury some kind of non-rigid conduit? What caused it to collapse? Typically we would pay a contractor for new fiber to be run and we would pay for (metal) conduit to be buried. We would manage the contractor and make sure that everything is up to code and done properly. If your facilities people have the expertise to bury conduit and run and terminate fiber, great, they can do it, but my experience has been that a specialized contractor is better suited to that kind of work. And if I'm paying for it I want to be the one handling the contract, because I don't think people in other fields are likely to have the expertise required to know best practices. This is of course assuming that you do have that expertise, otherwise it doesn't much matter. If I had some kind of failure with that conduit or that fiber, I would expect to pay for it to be replaced, unless the facilities people caused it to fail, either by performing the original work poorly or by doing something unrelated that caused the failure, in which case I would expect them to pay for it. The cost of a private locate is part of the cost of installation and I would expect to pay for that too. Your organization may be different from mine but we generally manage structured data cabling from end to end. If data cabling is the province of facilities in your organization then of course they'd be responsible for it.
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Dec 10, 2018 22:16
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Is this your own fibre cable that was installed between buildings that has a fault, or what? It's facilities problem to at least hire someone to fix it, the same way it's their problem to make sure that power is getting to IT equipment. Just don't do anything about it, tell your boss that facilities said they weren't going to do anything about it, and make it their problem. Running around in IT and fixing every problem that people who are actually responsible for resolving can't be hosed to deal with eats away at you eventually. Or just phone these guys and pay them to fix it http://www.opalsgroup.com/services/
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Dec 10, 2018 22:23
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Sickening posted:I haven’t worked at a Big Corp in so long I forgot what December actually played out like. All projects stop, all changes are frozen , and nobody does jack poo poo until mid January. Supposedly after the 15th all the executive leaders leave for the year and it will snowball down to the rest of the leaders. of 2016.
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Dec 10, 2018 22:44
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Internet Explorer posted:Also, if you are having trouble finding a job, look for an MSP to work at. They generally suck but they'll also generally hire just about anyone. Can confirm MSPs suck to work at, having worked at one for nearly 6 years now. It takes a certain kind of person to put up with all of the requirements of working for an MSP, if you enjoy learning new things every day it's cool but if you want something stable (edit: stable is a bad word, it's very stable we have TOO MUCH work to do) and easy it is not. We will hire anyone for helpdesk and they almost always suck but the good people get promoted and thrown into the field / put on projects pretty quickly (within 12-18 months of starting, if they don't suck). Vulture Culture posted:Also high enough turnover that you can prove yourself into a higher position pretty fast, and you'll often get exposure to a lot of different things in the span of a year or two. It's like working one paid internship and three unpaid internships at the same time! The turnover is definitely the highest contributor to promotions, it's hard to keep good talent. There is definitely lots of exposure to a lot of different things but you never really get a ton of time to focus on a single aspect of the job, but you do tend to get put on projects that take advantage of your particular skillset more often than not. Shartweek fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 10, 2018 23:40
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Internet Explorer posted:Realistically, this industry puts a lot on experience and no one wants to hire an entry-level employee and train them up. IT is generally looked at as a cost center, which means when they actually get approval to hire someone they need someone who can hit the ground running on day one. I'd almost rather have a near total newbie for help desk sometimes.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:44
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While agile is nice and all, putting public-facing tools that automatically generate scripts with deprecated methods is some amateur hour poo poo. Especially when they're the ones developing the referenced classes. Looking at you, Microsoft.
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Dec 11, 2018 02:54
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adorai posted:I don't believe your reasoning is correct. Yes, the industry puts a lot on experience, and being able to "hit the ground running" is great, but more importantly, experience offsets hubris. An admin with a few years under their belt has already hosed up production a few times, learned their lesson, and is now much less likely to do any cowboy poo poo. *reboots switch at 8pm*
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Dec 11, 2018 05:00
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adorai posted:I don't believe your reasoning is correct. Yes, the industry puts a lot on experience, and being able to "hit the ground running" is great, but more importantly, experience offsets hubris. An admin with a few years under their belt has already hosed up production a few times, learned their lesson, and is now much less likely to do any cowboy poo poo. I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but I think that's a nuanced take that not a lot of companies are going to take the time to make. I'm not sure I agree. But I can see your reasoning.
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Dec 11, 2018 06:43
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guppy posted:Maybe it's because I'm American but I am having a ton of trouble parsing these posts. What exactly is going on and what do you mean by duct? Did you bury some kind of non-rigid conduit? What caused it to collapse? Maybe - I am UK. Basically, I work on a converted air base from WW2 so loads of stuff is fubar as it's very old by duct I mean 2 man holes and whatever they used as a tube between the 2 to get cable between - anecdotally, no one knows when it was installed and we have people who have worked here for 15 years (not to say it's older, they just don't remember but I digress...) We also won a contract to run this place from the government, so we find a lot of stuff that is "the code says do this, but do as we say not as we do, we will just put this cable in this old heating duct here and hope for the best" (so it's a big mess!) I am certainly doing pretty much what you said - I found some contractors to do it properly, they came in and quoted - I appreciate and advocate for the principal of not doing things I shouldn't be doing strongly, but I am quite keen to get the effected stuff sorted so I'll take this one on the chin. I spoke to my boss and he agreed this is absolutely a facilities task, so our deal is if I go tell the senior facilities manager, mention that my boss is about to go off it because I shouldn't be doing this work, she will probably delegate the task to the guy who ignored me - however, if she goes 'nah, IT cables you do it' then I'll let my boss go off it. I gave them a chance and even did all the work for them!
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Dec 11, 2018 11:01
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Methanar posted:*reboots switch at 8pm* Ahaha. This x1000. I've worked as an automation engineer on mass transit systems for over 5 years now, and just last week I killed all the lights on a subway station for 50 seconds because I hosed up something simple. poo poo happens 
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Dec 11, 2018 11:40
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One time to fix a problem with our dev/test SAP system I took it off the domain assuming it had the same local admin login as our other systems. It didn’t and it wasn’t documented anywhere. That was fun
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Dec 11, 2018 12:00
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