BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

i see it a little bit differently, and i think this veers into conspiracy theory. understandable enough. but here's my take:

you are correct that U.S. imperialism is short-sighted and opportunistic, and it is constantly "tilting" and "signaling" around, with the principle goal in the middle east of (a) hostility to iran and (b) creating markets for weapons, investments, and keeping various countries dependent on the united states made possible via courting influence in political parties, key industries, military branches and intelligence agencies.

immediately before the gulf war, the U.S. did not see saddam as no longer useful. on the contrary, the U.S. opted to hedge closer to iraq, considering the fact that saddam had been weakened by the iran war and was himself willing to reach some kind of closer partnership with the united states, which also didn't want to rely too much on the saudis (again, better to have a generalized atmosphere of "chaos" which opens up pathways for the flow of weapons, investments, superpower dependencies that make U.S. imperialism possible...).

you are also aware of how before the iraqi invasion of kuwait, the U.S. ambassador to iraq was telling them that their border issue with kuwait was none of "our" concern. but i think this overture to saddam basically blew up in the bush administration's face; they didn't expect him to actually invade a U.S. ally. the ambassador would later say "we never expected they would take all of kuwait." i believe she was telling the truth. you know -- we'll let you revise the border a bit, to stop the horizontal drilling, etc.

that was the "signal" to saddam that the U.S. was willing to pay that price for his dependency.

this is kissinger diplomacy. which is natural enough, because the bush administration staffed itself with his people from kissinger, associates. the goal is "mutually-assured destabilization." no war but no peace. no winner or loser. just maximum "realpolitik." and saddam's refusal to play a lot with the tilt-and-signal game, or misinterpreting the U.S. "signal" as a green light, is why he was punished.

HerraS posted:

like most things in the middle east this thread went to poo poo immediately after an israeli touched it lol

HerraS posted:

like most things in the middle east this thread went to poo poo immediately after an israeli touched it lol

HerraS posted:

like most things in the middle east this thread went to poo poo immediately after an israeli touched it lol

Volkerball posted:

I'm confused here. So lets say hypothetically, for the sake of argument, that Saddam took power in a coup in which he forced half of the sitting MP's to execute the other half on allegations of a treasonous plot, immediately invaded Iran in a war of conquest for the glory of Iraq, and upon its failure, immediately declared another for Kuwait, all the while persecuting the hell out of Kurdish and Shia minorities. Were that to be the case, how should we, the working class, react to what would amount to fascism trying to gain more power in the world? Since the US is obviously not in any of your visions for a solution to such things, I don't see any need to mention that country in your responses, tia.

Muscle Wizard posted:

what if satan just rose from the goddamn ground and took over iraq? would you drat liberals be ok with invading then? i bet you wouldnt. despicable.

Volkerball posted:

if you don't have an answer please wait patiently for others who are smarter than you to do so, thanks

Muscle Wizard posted:

Volkerball posted:

I'm confused here. So lets say hypothetically, for the sake of argument, that Saddam took power in a coup in which he forced half of the sitting MP's to execute the other half on allegations of a treasonous plot, immediately invaded Iran in a war of conquest for the glory of Iraq, and upon its failure, immediately declared another for Kuwait, all the while persecuting the hell out of Kurdish and Shia minorities. Were that to be the case, how should we, the working class, react to what would amount to fascism trying to gain more power in the world? Since the US is obviously not in any of your visions for a solution to such things, I don't see any need to mention that country in your responses, tia.

gradenko_2000 posted:

I don't know what part of "not our problem" is so hard to understand about military intervention

THS posted:

invade brazil

Willie Tomg posted:

nothing inoculates the world against fascism like a violent militarized society periodically savaging a rotating cast of geopolitical villains all of whom were our allies until they weren't for some weird reason

mlmp08 posted:

I've no dog in the fight these last few pages except to point out Theodore "Ted" Postol is a loving crackpot nowadays. It's not that he never did worthwhile work, but he went off the deep end at some point and has been into some wild poo poo and conspiracy-mongering.

Flavahbeast posted:

Erdogan update: still lusting for kurd death

https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1072803572994195457

mlmp08 posted:

And even in the field of missiles, he's done poo poo like declare that Iron Dome or other systems don't work based on stuff like dark cell phone footage where he decides that the system is failing based on "Reasons." Then when confronted about it, he just throws back to stuff that hasn't been valid since the mid 1990s as evidence. Or points to things like rockets/missiles landing in open, uninhabited desert, which are areas where air defense forces generally make a conscious decision not to place resources or waste expensive interceptors.

Flavahbeast posted:

Erdogan update: still lusting for kurd death

https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1072803572994195457

Raqqa Flocka Flame posted:

What if instead of Erdogan he was Erdobong, and instead of lighting up Kurdish civilians he lite up WEEEED.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The bottom line is that it wasn't worth going to war with Iraq and killing all those people, just to preserve the integrity of Kuwait. A country that only exists today because of the special status it got as a British protectorate. Certainly not considering all the consequences that would come a decade down the line.

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

I lust for war between the US and another NATO country