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Not entirely serious idea: Convert 3e Tome of Battle / PF Path of War to 5e so you never have to worry about "daily spell limits" ever again. You might still end up wanting to snooze from running out of HP, but that's something that everyone will have to worry about, and will have to worry about on a much-evener keel.
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Dec 11, 2018 07:28
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RE: Glen Cook His more recent "Instrumentalities of the Night" took the "how to deal with magic" issue even farther than The Black Company or The Dread Empire. Also as far as DnD vs Black Company, there was a 3e sourcebook to crystallize the "magic is insane here" thing. Normal people simply didnt fight wizards. Like The Taken were around 35th level and The Dominator was like 75th level or something insane. (The book also had a custom magic system that was along the lines of "spend points to create effects and then spend points to change/add to/enhance those effects".
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Dec 11, 2018 09:31
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Has anyone here ran or played in one-shots where you play something very weak, like goblins/kobolds, with the intent of getting through a dungeon? Wasn't sure what to expect, but got into a session where we played as our characters inhabiting the bodies of kobolds with the goal being to complete the Tomb of Horrors. It was a lot more fun than I initially expected, though the safety net of deaths simply meaning we got a new, random kobold to control did soften the dungeon a bit. Arthil fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 10:56
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Arthil posted:Has anyone here ran or played in one-shots where you play something very weak, like goblins/kobolds, with the intent of getting through a dungeon? The pit that shoots neverending spikes must get easy once you've finally filled it to the top with prior character's bodies.
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Dec 11, 2018 12:57
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Mr. Humalong posted:Are land druids any fun to play? We’re level 9 btw I'm playing a land druid right now (lower level than you're at) and enjoying it. Moon Druid is obviously more powerful, but you get some boosts to your spellcasting that can be nice and depending which land you choose, some of the non-Druid spells you get are solid. Depending on your party composition, your Wild Shape can still be very useful for scouting and utility uses. (My party now has a warlock with an Imp familiar and a ranger with an animal companion, so that part hasn't worked out great in my case) Basically you take it if you want to focus on casting spells rather than fighting in animal forms. At level 9 you'll have unlocked all your circle spells and be only one level away from being immune to poison and disease, which seems potentially quite nice.
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Dec 11, 2018 16:27
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I’ve been thinking about my players constantly asking for long tests even in situations where it’s obvious they don’t have time to burn though this mostly has to do with x per day abilities the players have as I’m playing AiME and not regular D&D. I was thinking of increasing the DC of any checks they have to make by +1-2 each time they use their abilities without a long rest (and making a long rest a week and a short rest 1 day) beyond their normal limit to represent fatigue. If they fail then very bad stuff happens ( what exactly that bad stuff is depends on the situation) and they can’t use the ability any more untill they long rest. I guess you could extend the same rule to spell casting in regular d&d.
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Dec 11, 2018 19:05
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Numlock posted:I’ve been thinking about my players constantly asking for long tests even in situations where it’s obvious they don’t have time to burn though this mostly has to do with x per day abilities the players have as I’m playing AiME and not regular D&D. I don't understand this. They're taking too many long rests, so you're adding a penalty for not resting. If there is failure based on not resting enough, that incentives people to rest well before the max. Weirdly, especially with the week long rest. If you're at 4 battles, and you know you'll need to long rest after 1-2 more, then the amount of time saved by continuing isn't noteworthy. Going another 10 minutes, then resting for a week, is basically the same as 20 minutes, plus a week. Short rests being a day will also possibly pressure people towards long rests. Unless you can drop everything for a day for a short rest, you won't, which means classes that have functions based on short rests will under-perform, requiring more usage of daily rests. Unless they're highly aware of the possibility of taking a short rest or two almost certainly saving them 5 days, they'll avoid it. Especially if they could possibly end up trapped in a dungeon, where there's no way to rest, which puts them at too many encounters, which means they get penalized, etc. Have the long rests be long, sure, but don't extend short rests unless you want to encourage extremely conservative play. I'd even say shorten short rests. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 00:08
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So Misty Step is, for some goofy reason, a Conjuration spell. That means a conjurer is weirdly mobile and capable of shuffling a team around with Benign Transposition. Anyone seen anything really cool with that or have neat ideas? I definitely want to throw our druid bear into danger (with her consent of course).
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Dec 12, 2018 00:20
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Gharbad the Weak posted:I don't understand this. The TLDR is that the players had rotten luck in their first session and one character died. I started pulling my punches because I suspect if I played it straight a TPK would of resulted. Now they are spooked and asking for long rests after every fight even when it doesn’t make sense, much to my annoyance. So I’m thinking I give them the option to use their abilites more, but at greater risk of failure.
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Dec 12, 2018 00:43
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Numlock posted:The TLDR is that the players had rotten luck in their first session and one character died. I started pulling my punches because I suspect if I played it straight a TPK would of resulted. Now they are spooked and asking for long rests after every fight even when it doesn’t make sense, much to my annoyance. Are you rewriting the entire rest/refresh system to avoid talking to your players about their expectations?
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Dec 12, 2018 01:52
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Nehru the Damaja posted:So Misty Step is, for some goofy reason, a Conjuration spell. That means a conjurer is weirdly mobile and capable of shuffling a team around with Benign Transposition. Why is that goofy. Teleportation effects have been part of conjuration for a long time. And it does not make sense to really be in a different school.
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Dec 12, 2018 02:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:Why is that goofy. Teleportation effects have been part of conjuration for a long time. And it does not make sense to really be in a different school. You're conjuring up yourself.
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Dec 12, 2018 02:12
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MonsterEnvy posted:Why is that goofy. Teleportation effects have been part of conjuration for a long time. And it does not make sense to really be in a different school. Apparently it used to be part of Alteration in 2e, before the school was renamed to Transmutation. Personally, I don't think it's a great fit for Conjuration, which is usually about creating something out of nothing, while the goal of teleporting is to start and end with the same amount of mass. I can sort of see the logic behind Transmutation, since you're transforming the target's position rather than its mass. If it was up to me, though, I'd put it into Divination, since they're both about long-distance stuff. And in a practical sense, a divination usually precedes a teleportation, to make sure there aren't any unexpected complications, so it makes sense to me that the two magics are studied by the same people.
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Dec 12, 2018 02:23
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Conjuring something could be moving something somewhere else. Like when you summon something, you're bringing it to you from wherever the hell it was before. Teleporting is the reverse of that.
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Dec 12, 2018 02:59
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Numlock posted:The TLDR is that the players had rotten luck in their first session and one character died. I started pulling my punches because I suspect if I played it straight a TPK would of resulted. Now they are spooked and asking for long rests after every fight even when it doesn’t make sense, much to my annoyance. You should just outright tell them what you're telling us now. Like, when I last ran a campaign, I prefaced it with "I reserve the determine when you're allowed to benefit from a rest. Time can pass however the narrative demands, but it's completely divorced from when you get your spells back, because the game mechanically requires the attrition of resources to properly build up tension. I promise you that I'm not going to use this to screw you over."
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Dec 12, 2018 03:02
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lightrook posted:Apparently it used to be part of Alteration in 2e, before the school was renamed to Transmutation. Personally, I don't think it's a great fit for Conjuration, which is usually about creating something out of nothing, while the goal of teleporting is to start and end with the same amount of mass. I can sort of see the logic behind Transmutation, since you're transforming the target's position rather than its mass. If it was up to me, though, I'd put it into Divination, since they're both about long-distance stuff. And in a practical sense, a divination usually precedes a teleportation, to make sure there aren't any unexpected complications, so it makes sense to me that the two magics are studied by the same people. Evocation is about creating something out of nothing. Conjuring brings something that was somewhere else to you. So teleportation which is the reverse of that, so it makes sense in the school. Infinite Karma posted:Conjuring something could be moving something somewhere else. Like when you summon something, you're bringing it to you from wherever the hell it was before. Teleporting is the reverse of that. Sometimes literally hell. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 04:32
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MonsterEnvy posted:Evocation is about creating something out of nothing. Conjuring brings something that was somewhere else to you. So teleportation which is the reverse of that makes sense in the school. Huh, I actually haven't checked 5e's spells by school until now, so I was mostly going by outdated 3.5 information. Looks like they've moved most of the Wall of X spells and a lot of damaging spells from Conjuration to Evocation so it actually has a reason to exist. Guess that mystery's been solved.
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Dec 12, 2018 05:20
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lightrook posted:Huh, I actually haven't checked 5e's spells by school until now, so I was mostly going by outdated 3.5 information. Looks like they've moved most of the Wall of X spells and a lot of damaging spells from Conjuration to Evocation so it actually has a reason to exist. Guess that mystery's been solved. Almost all the wall spells were Evocation in 3.5 too. I just checked. Which damaging spells do you think were moved?
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Dec 12, 2018 05:39
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MonsterEnvy posted:Almost all the wall spells were Evocation in 3.5 too. I just checked. Which damaging spells do you think were moved? Wall of Fire and Wall of Ice were Evocation, yes, but Wall of Iron and Wall of Stone were Conjuration, for example. The difference used to be that Evocation made energy and Conjuration made mass, but with the idea of mass-energy equivalence that's kind of a silly distinction. It was especially dumb when Fireball was an Evocation spell that created fiery energy, but the arguably-superior Orb of Fire (now lumped into Chromatic Orb as part of Evocation) was a Conjuration spell that created a mass of fire; Orb of Fire dealt the same damage but also had no save and ignored Spell Resistance, so Conjuration was pretty much strictly better than Evocation at their One Big Thing. The other school shift I noticed was Melf's Acid Arrow got moved into Evocation in 5e, but Acid Splash is somehow still Conjuration? I'm not going to try too hard to make sense of it, but at least Evocation is no longer literally the worst and least useful school.
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Dec 12, 2018 05:56
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Conjuration explicitly includes creating something from nothing in 5e and it's weird to me that they moved Wall of Stone to evocation. The Melf's Acid Arrow and Acid Splash discrepancy is also confusing. It seems like they tried to move some stuff into evocation to make it less of The Blasting School, but that's unnecessary when wizards don't have restricted/banned schools. It's not like it's ever going to be hard for an evoker to learn BFC spells to supplement their arsenal.
Elysiume fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 07:28
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Here are the basic descriptions of the schoolsPHB posted:As a conjurer, you favor spells that produce objects and creatures out of thin air. You can conjure billowing clouds of killing fog or summon creatures from elsewhere to fight on your behalf. As your mastery grows, you learn spells of transportation and can teleport yourself across vast distances, even to other planes of existence, in an instant. PHB posted:You focus your study on magic that creates powerful elemental effects such as bitter cold, searing flame, rolling thunder, crackling lightning, and burning acid. Some evokers find employment in military forces, serving as artillery to blast enemy armies from afar. Others use their spectacular power to protect the weak, while some seek their own gain as bandits, adventurers, or aspiring tyrants.
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Dec 12, 2018 08:18
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There's alsoquote:Conjuration spells involve the transportation of objects and creatures from one location to another. Some spells summon creatures or objects to the caster’s side, whereas others allow the caster to teleport to another location. Some conjurations create objects or effects out of nothing. quote:Evocation spells manipulate magical energy to produce a desired effect. Some call up blasts of fire or lightning. Others channel positive energy to heal wounds.
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Dec 12, 2018 08:38
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Nehru the Damaja posted:So Misty Step is, for some goofy reason, a Conjuration spell. That means a conjurer is weirdly mobile and capable of shuffling a team around with Benign Transposition. I’m about to start my first campaign as a player (instead of DM) in twenty years this week and I cannot loving wait to get up to shenanigans with my Conjurer. Moments I’m already looking forward to pulling off at some point are catching someone falling through the air by transposing them with myself to put them on the ground and then misty stepping to safety. Or the same technique with saving people from burning buildings etc. Also transposing myself with my familiar to get people to believe I can transform into a rat. Misty stepping behind someone just before combat starts, grabbing their sword from its scabbard to disarm them, then transposing myself with our paladin or rogue to stab them. Basically I want to be nightcrawler.
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Dec 12, 2018 08:58
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Reveilled posted:
Look up Horizon Walker.
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Dec 12, 2018 15:13
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Xae posted:Look up Horizon Walker. Ok, small clarification, I want to be nightcrawler but I’m also totally looking forward to doing stuff like dramatically collapsing into a conjured chair and looking forward to reaching into my coat and then using minor Conjuration to dramatically pull out a crowbar or a bucket or a drum or anything.
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Dec 12, 2018 16:39
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D&D doesn't support that kind of gameplay through its magic system.
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Dec 12, 2018 19:49
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Conspiratiorist posted:D&D doesn't support that kind of gameplay through its magic system. yeah this is all technically possible, but you're looking at burning some pretty high-level spell slots to do it.
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Dec 12, 2018 19:51
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Reveilled posted:Ok, small clarification, I want to be nightcrawler but I’m also totally looking forward to doing stuff like dramatically collapsing into a conjured chair and looking forward to reaching into my coat and then using minor Conjuration to dramatically pull out a crowbar or a bucket or a drum or anything. Just get a Robe of Useful Items.
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Dec 12, 2018 20:05
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kidkissinger posted:yeah this is all technically possible, but you're looking at burning some pretty high-level spell slots to do it. Yeah I'm never sure how to reconcile this problem; in D&D, you can only be Nightcrawler for about fifteen minutes each day.
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Dec 12, 2018 20:11
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Conspiratiorist posted:D&D doesn't support that kind of gameplay through its magic system. Sounds like he's looked into it more than you have and found that it can? Like some of it is just DM fiat, but some is just using high level spells for what you'd call nonoptimal things. I can't really think of a system that just, outright, lets you teleport behind someone and yoink their weapon to disarm them since that can just be seen as a narrative thing anyway. Arthil fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 22:10
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Conspiratiorist posted:D&D doesn't support that kind of gameplay through its magic system.  quote:Minor Conjuration
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Dec 12, 2018 22:22
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Misty Step is a 2nd level spell - there's a very finite number of times it can be used, and it's in competition with other abilities, so frivolous casting it ~for flavor~ will ineffectually exhaust a Wizard's resources. He's also mentioning a couple things he's looking forward to do that just aren't at all supported by the rules, like catching someone in the air with teleports, or cinematically disarming enemies to leave them at the mercy of his allies.
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Dec 12, 2018 22:27
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Conspiratiorist posted:Misty Step is a 2nd level spell - there's a very finite number of times it can be used, and it's in competition with other abilities, so frivolous casting it ~for flavor~ will ineffectually exhaust a Wizard's resources. quote:Benign Transposition I'm talking about initiating combat on the unsuspecting, people who haven't even drawn their weapons. Depending on how my DM wants to run things like surprise rounds and what counts as an action I can think of a few different permutations which are varying amounts of perfect, but ideally I see this as Bonus action to misty step, free interaction with an object to draw a weapon from its scabbard, action to use benign transposition to switch places with party's paladin. Worst case scenario, I think, would be surprise round begins, misty step as bonus action, draw enemy's weapon as a slight of hand check on my action, then benign transposition on my next action after normal initiative begins. Or my DM says no, I guess, but I doubt my DM will be like that. For catching people falling, Benign transposition with them, placing them on the ground and me in the air, then either cast feather fall or misty step.
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Dec 12, 2018 22:43
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Way of the Shadow Monk will give you a 60 foot teleport as a bonus action at level 6. The only restriction is it only works in shadows (dim light or darkness). That sounds pretty cool to me. Horizon Walker Ranger is another option for unlimited teleports (level 11 distant strike) and it also lets you visit the ethereal plane once per short rest at level 7. nelson fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 22:46
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Shadow sorcerer too but the feature is higher level.
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Dec 12, 2018 22:55
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I appreciate the suggestions, but I think I gave the wrong impression with the Nightcrawler thing, which I had intended as a throwaway joke. I don't actually want to be Nightcrawler, I want to be the character I made, who is a conjurer. I was mostly just wanting to share some ideas on how to use the Misty Step/Benign Transposition combo, as requested by Nehru. Obviously for the vast majority of fights stealing one NPC's weapon isn't going to be an optimal use of a 2nd level spell slot, but I there's certainly been times in the games I've DMed over the years where stealing an NPC's weapon could have led to a much easier fight or even allowed a peaceful resolution to an encounter. Nor is using the combo to save someone from falling a more optimal solution than just casting feather fall, but if you're out of level 1 slots (and would be casting with 2nd level anyway) or just don't have Feather Fall prepared, I think it fits the bill of being pretty cool.
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Dec 12, 2018 23:42
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Spoiler for WDH content: Ah ha ha, we're doing WDH and I allied with the Zhents. We got to the part where the Zhents attack the manor while we're tailing the robotman. And our DM is like "what do" and I'm like "well, I'm gonna pick the biggest baddest dude on the opposite side from the Zhents and light him up."  My DM was NOT AMUSED
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Dec 13, 2018 04:48
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Toshimo posted:Spoiler for WDH content: So wait did you just murder a party member.
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Dec 13, 2018 04:50
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Toshimo posted:Spoiler for WDH content: Hot drat. We finished Dragon Hoard the other day and it had the weakest ending I’ve ever seen in a multilevel campaign or module. I thought we were just farting around with more social encounters but it turns out we were at the drat finale. I need to go read the adventure now to see if we missed a ton of stuff or what. Our DM is good and we’re AL so I assume he didn’t modify stuff much. I also realized after we made it two rooms into the Undermountain that this book is going to last us until 6e at the pace we’re going. These floors are massive and there are a ton of them.
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Dec 13, 2018 05:38
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Kaysette posted:Hot drat. Please describe the how it ends. The most unforgivable thing the module writers for 5e have done is for their Dragon Heist adventure to not have a heist imo.
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