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Ruins holidays like Kevin Hart
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Dec 11, 2018 22:51
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American cops loving love the alt right for anyone claiming they're not all bad
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Dec 11, 2018 23:02
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Jose posted:American cops loving love the alt right for anyone claiming they're not all bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiHftejWSvU
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Dec 12, 2018 00:37
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General Dog posted:Just by virtue of living in this society, aren't we all complicit in the police's misdeeds? People voted over and over for "tough on crime" and the result is we have so many laws with such harsh punishments that you could lock pretty much everyone up if there were enough enforcement resources to do so, so yeah kind of.
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Dec 12, 2018 01:05
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https://twitter.com/truth_smiley/status/1072628084040437760?s=19
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Dec 12, 2018 01:19
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MizPiz posted:2016 did that our timeline diverged from the real one in 2000, the shittiness of the alternate history writer has only grown more apparent over time.
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Dec 12, 2018 03:52
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paul ryan is alive, can raise his arms, never crashed a plane, etc
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Dec 12, 2018 04:10
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Tunicate posted:our timeline diverged from the real one in 2000, the shittiness of the alternate history writer has only grown more apparent over time. harry turtledove wouldn't even write this bad.
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Dec 12, 2018 04:28
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Teal posted:In a perfect world, you'd have no use for cops; the best they can ever be is justified, necessary evil with minimized negative effects. The point of loading the attitude as by default negative is you should be always wary of them, and you should by default be prepared to face and deal with adversity from them. Of course, this negativity shouldn't be aimed at the persons of the ones who legitimately try their human, moral best. My best pal's brother is a cop, and he's real cool. It also shouldn't keep you from cooperating them in situations where it's the best option. But it should ideally keep you on your toes around them, it should keep you from needlessly snitching on people who you have no quarrel with. It should naturally make you very wary and opposed to further growth of their privilege and powers, etc. This is my take as well. As the son of a career cop, I understand their place in society. But as the son of a corrupt cop, I know they can not be trusted. They my not always be the enemy, but they are by no means allies.
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Dec 12, 2018 05:30
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Ommin posted:This is my take as well. As the son of a career cop, I understand their place in society. But as the son of a corrupt cop, I know they can not be trusted. They my not always be the enemy, but they are by no means allies. lmao
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Dec 12, 2018 06:00
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Ommin posted:This is my take as well. As the son of a career cop, I understand their place in society. But as the son of a corrupt cop, I know they can not be trusted. They my not always be the enemy, but they are by no means allies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv_CcmRZ7zc
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Dec 12, 2018 06:15
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Ommin posted:This is my take as well. As the son of a career cop, I understand their place in society. But as the son of a corrupt cop, I know they can not be trusted. They my not always be the enemy, but they are by no means allies. As the son of the Denzel Washington character in Training Day,
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Dec 12, 2018 06:23
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Ommin posted:This is my take as well. As the son of a career cop, I understand their place in society. But as the son of a corrupt cop, I know they can not be trusted. They my not always be the enemy, but they are by no means allies. drat it's extremely cool that instead of saying grace at meals your dad did the Jack Nicholson speech from a few good men
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Dec 12, 2018 06:27
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I'd be fine with my son being gay, but I'm not sure I'd call myself a "true straight male" despite being a best described as a heterosexual cis man. I'm also part Scottish, but I'm not sure I'd call myself a true Scotsman. I'm also happy to take away from my family traditions of two generations of fathers abandoning their sons leading to complete non-contact.
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Dec 12, 2018 08:22
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Dec 12, 2018 09:34
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https://twitter.com/WEP_UK/status/1...ingawful.com%2F
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Dec 12, 2018 09:53
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lot going on here
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Dec 12, 2018 09:54
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https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1072647688498360320?s=19
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Dec 12, 2018 09:56
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https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1072772593701269505
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Dec 12, 2018 12:50
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the theory of how to make cops better is pretty simple, make them accountable to the communities they police rather than allowing the union to protect individuals and departments from their actions how you unwind all of the existing poo poo without bringing in the probably way chuddier national guard as a temporary solution is the real problem. but if individual cops reported to citizens instead of former-cop administrators, you'd have a lot less dudes blasting away to close their case and get back to the car to keep their stats moving
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Dec 12, 2018 13:32
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Community oversight is a nice patch, but won't actually solve their behavior. The problem with cops is fundamental to what they are. Their job has always been to maintain order and to protect the powerful and their property, rather than (and often counter to) achieving any kind of moral justice or peace. This is why people call for the abolition of police, rather than police "reform," because any reform sweeping enough to fix the structural problems would render the new police completely unrecognizable as the same institution.
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Dec 12, 2018 14:06
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Goon Danton posted:Community oversight is a nice patch, but won't actually solve their behavior. The problem with cops is fundamental to what they are. Their job has always been to maintain order and to protect the powerful and their property, rather than (and often counter to) achieving any kind of moral justice or peace. This is why people call for the abolition of police, rather than police "reform," because any reform sweeping enough to fix the structural problems would render the new police completely unrecognizable as the same institution. Police are never going to be good, because any organization that wields state sponsored force against citizens is going to attract fascists and corruption. That's why social programs and mental health are so important: the are able to reduce crime without force. All that said, you ultimately need some force in order to deal the inevitability of crime, and the best way to achieve just results is a highly regulated and trained organization with extensive oversight and accountability. You don't have to call them cops if you don't want, but that's more or less what they are. And yeah to achieve a sufficiently reformed police force you'd need to basically fire every cop and start over, or spend like 30-40 years of constant political will maintaining oversight until you've had an entire generation of cops who've worked under serious regulation and oversight for their entire careers. fool of sound has issued a correction as of 14:22 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 14:18
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It'd be a mistake to use the argument that there is no such thing as good police to not (try to) improve things in some of the worst cases. My home country has a police force that gets stupidly trigger-happy once the guns are out, and do come down on bad sides in any kind of civil disobedience or demonstrations, but I think things could be a lot worse still if getting to be police wasn't gated behind a 2 year university program (with reasonably stringent requirements to enter) and nowadays a mandatory psychological screening.
Cybernetic Vermin has issued a correction as of 17:04 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 17:02
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:It'd be a mistake to use the argument that there is no such thing as good police to not (try to) improve things in some of the worst cases. My home country has a police force that gets stupidly trigger-happy once the guns are out, and do come down on bad sides in any kind of civil disobedience or demonstrations, but I think things could be a lot worse still if getting to be police wasn't gated behind a 2 year university program (with reasonably stringent requirements to enter) and nowadays a mandatory psychological screening. People seriously opposed to police violence fight now for policy that would disarm and cut funding to the police and carceral state. As an example of this, in Seattle, there are 2 related movements called "Block the Bunker" and "No New Youth Jail". The former was a movement which was successful in blocking a proposed plan to build a 180 million police bunker, replete with tanks and an expanded SWAT arsenal. The latter movement currently opposes a proposed 210 million dollar jail for kids. Rolling back the militarization of the police (or even just fighting against further consolidation of power, like what I cited above) is not going to end the oppression caused by the police, but it does mean undermining their ability to just straight up lynch people the way they can now. To get rid of the police entirely, we would need major changes in the material conditions of our society that are not possible under capitalism. The true purpose of the police, in practical terms, is the protection of private property (most especially that of the wealthy, to whom they are most obedient), a goal directly opposed to ending capitalism. If you oppose capitalism, it is in your interest to see your enemies disarmed. Mr. Lobe has issued a correction as of 17:31 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 17:28
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Pushing for abolition and transformational change does not preclude working for reforms in the short term to build momentum and weaken opposition power. It's the old minimum program / maximum program thing.
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Dec 12, 2018 17:31
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Goon Danton posted:Pushing for abolition and transformational change does not preclude working for reforms in the short term to build momentum and weaken opposition power. It's the old minimum program / maximum program thing. I don't know if this was a direct response to me or not, but if it was, I agree. I am saying we should push for reforms that undermine the harm the police can do, and generally frustrate them in their jobs as the shock troops of the wealthy.
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Dec 12, 2018 17:34
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But will it solve racism forever?
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Dec 12, 2018 17:39
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Good. gently caress off. Yet another reason to call for a general election.
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Dec 12, 2018 17:57
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SENTIENT HOUSEMEAT posted:Good. gently caress off. nobody ever does that
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Dec 12, 2018 18:07
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I definitely believe that Sir Lord Sir Alan Sugar is a sincere man and will do what he says he will do. To be honest, there's a chance that he will do it, but it would 1000% be for tax reasons.
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Dec 12, 2018 18:39
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Dec 12, 2018 18:41
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Goon Danton posted:Community oversight is a nice patch, but won't actually solve their behavior. The problem with cops is fundamental to what they are. Their job has always been to maintain order and to protect the powerful and their property, rather than (and often counter to) achieving any kind of moral justice or peace. This is why people call for the abolition of police, rather than police "reform," because any reform sweeping enough to fix the structural problems would render the new police completely unrecognizable as the same institution. This is the main argument for abolition - that society needs to be restructured around justice and in so doing police would become unnecessary. Police don't exist to protect individuals from crime and violence, they exist to reign in the underclass, to staunch the bleeding from exploitation, racism and alienation, and make society safe for capital. Cops are only "necessary" in authoritarian systems that insist on unequal treatment of people for the benefit of a relative handful of elites.
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Dec 12, 2018 20:09
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800peepee51doodoo posted:This is the main argument for abolition - that society needs to be restructured around justice and in so doing police would become unnecessary. Police don't exist to protect individuals from crime and violence, they exist to reign in the underclass, to staunch the bleeding from exploitation, racism and alienation, and make society safe for capital. Cops are only "necessary" in authoritarian systems that insist on unequal treatment of people for the benefit of a relative handful of elites. yeah but what about the gang initiations where you gotta kill a white lady in a minivan
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Dec 12, 2018 20:14
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the answer: anyone who is not very rich
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Dec 12, 2018 20:18
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Frog Act posted:yeah but what about the gang initiations where you gotta kill a white lady in a minivan presumably the cops will stop doing this if you disarm them
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Dec 12, 2018 21:23
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Frog Act posted:yeah but what about the gang initiations where you gotta kill a white lady in a minivan I already said we'd get rid of the co-- the bitcoin of weed posted:presumably the cops will stop doing this if you disarm them gently caress!
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Dec 12, 2018 21:32
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800peepee51doodoo posted:This is the main argument for abolition - that society needs to be restructured around justice and in so doing police would become unnecessary. Police don't exist to protect individuals from crime and violence, they exist to reign in the underclass, to staunch the bleeding from exploitation, racism and alienation, and make society safe for capital. Cops are only "necessary" in authoritarian systems that insist on unequal treatment of people for the benefit of a relative handful of elites. Honest question because I don’t actually know the answer: who would catch murderers and and rapists and the violent criminals that would still exist under any system? Certainly I agree that this isn’t the primary purpose of the cops but it does currently fall under their purview. I guess my question in more general terms is whether the existence of a law enforcement mechanism is itself objectionable, or if it’s the current model of policing?
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Dec 12, 2018 21:52
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christmas boots posted:rapists There aren't, like, super rapists that only police can stop I'm not terribly worried about violent criminals, either, because they aren't space aliens who teleport to earth to commit crimes, and then teleport away. They have roots somewhere and it's by the root that you pull them. What you still need a professional security force for, IMO, is things like hostage situations, active shooters, etc. where you absolutely need application of force, and criminal conspiracies, criminal families, blood feuds etc. where you need the intervention of outsiders. And you'd still need detectives
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Dec 12, 2018 22:14
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hackbunny posted:I'm not terribly worried about violent criminals, either, because they aren't space aliens who teleport to earth to commit crimes, and then teleport away. They have roots somewhere and it's by the root that you pull them. What does this mean?
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Dec 12, 2018 22:29
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https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1072928981421305858?s=19
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Dec 12, 2018 22:33
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