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Magil Zeal posted:Alternatively, sign lots of migration treaties and get tons of pops for every degree of habitability ASAP. Then explode outward. Yeah this is a very good way to grow as well. I actually got lucky and caravaneers dropped off a bunch of Racketeers so I'm putting them on the tomb world next door. This game I'm running barbaric despoilers and I'm currently in a war with my neighbor to steal as many pops as I can make off with to grow my colonies, once the war is over I should be in a pretty huge growth spurt.
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Dec 12, 2018 09:13
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Nektu posted:I'm trying a babaric despoiler, and im unsue how I actually steal pops. The tooltip sounds as if there should be a new "Raiding" bombardment stance that I can enable in the policy menu, but its not there. Every individual fleet has a bombing stance. It's next to the passive/evasive/aggressive button. If you didn't know that, you've probably been underbombing your enemies when you've played aggressive empires since it defaults to the weakest one that only the nice aliens do. If you've gotten a raiding stance, you can turn it on there and it doesn't matter what your empire's policies are. Bedurndurn fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 09:24
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I'm starting to think my Radical Xenophobic Conglomerate from Arkansas was a bad idea. Can't get deals with anyone, but I want to enslave the xenos to further the Walmart corporation's agenda. 🤔
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Dec 12, 2018 09:27
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Demiurge4 posted:Yeah this is a very good way to grow as well. I actually got lucky and caravaneers dropped off a bunch of Racketeers so I'm putting them on the tomb world next door. This game I'm running barbaric despoilers and I'm currently in a war with my neighbor to steal as many pops as I can make off with to grow my colonies, once the war is over I should be in a pretty huge growth spurt. Along these lines I think the Tomb World start is very powerful now, I'm understanding it actually gives you Tomb World habitability for 60% on every type of planet now which is different from how it used to be.
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Dec 12, 2018 09:44
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OwlFancier posted:No they don't, though. Not compared to planet numbers. Each planet adds massively to your base population growth so that is clearly the key element, which is why I've added a load more of them. I don't think you understand how important small % bonuses are in the early phases of a 4x game. They multiply in value exponentially the earlier you get them, and even small-seeming bonuses can become huge advantages. If you're going to make authoritative statements about how the game's economy is flawed, try playing it without mods that fundamentally alter the flow and balance of the economy. You don't have "a load more" planets in that screenshot you posted, you're far behind the amount you should have at that point in the game. The slower you settle, the slower your pop growth. You should have as many green and yellow planets settled as you can afford with your mineral income as early as possible, instead of building unoccupied buildings and districts. creamcorn fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 09:55
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I'm enjoying OwlFancier's posting. A stubborn refusal to pay attention to key details is exactly how to play a 4X game.Baronjutter posted:I found the effect reroll_deposits that still works from 2.1, it does exactly what it says and if you've added custom deposits or changed deposit weights it works and things show up! But, the old 2.1 effect add_deposit doesn't exist anymore. I can only find a list of effects on the wiki but it's out of date. It says it's a dump from effect_doc command in-game, but that command also doesn't seem to exist anymore. Is there a file in the game's folder that has a list of all effects? I imagine there's a new simple command for adding deposits to planets based on their deposit name? I don't know about modding, but I do know that the devouring swarm Diplomacy tree replacer's finisher is a decision which creates a random deposit on planets on which it is used. Mister Bates posted:My midgame empire has ten sectors in it, five of them with one planet each and three with only two planets (and one of those has both of them in the same system). The sector logic appears to be "Is this new colony within 2 jumps of an existing sector? If so, add it, if not -> new sector" which is the kind of thing which makes perfect organic sense for some styles of settling but not for others.
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Dec 12, 2018 10:21
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OwlFancier posted:But I clearly have enough money to overbuild planets, if I had double the resource income it still wouldn't give me any more pops to staff buildings, would it? Again I don't need more space resources, I'm deliberately wasting them as is. Reduced planets means you won't find good planets any time soon, reducing your growth. They'll also be far away and in different sectors, meaning no governor bonus. Increased travel time means you'll take even longer to find these planets and you'll also be missing out on space resources to trade for food to boost pop growth. You'll also be finding anomalies slower which means less... everything, and finding empires slower means less diplomacy means less immigration and Tech pacts and commerce pacts (or less fighting) Reduced research means you're getting the +10% pop growth mod and Gene techs slower, the clinic slower, the survey and transit speed techs slower, robits slower, the static resource boosters slower... Reduced unity means you'll take longer to get whatever trees compliment your start, such as increased growth, better colonies, faster scanning, better diplomacy etc. Any one or even two of these would be fine. But all of them? The effects are multiplicative. They make each other worse. You're playing the game at about a quarter of the speed of everyone else. Of course it feels slow.
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Dec 12, 2018 10:54
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Baronjutter posted:So I'm fairly familiar with the solar system initializers that generate the systems, I found all the deposit types and what bonuses they give and what planets they show up on. What I can't quite figure out is what file or system populates planets with deposits in the first place. I can planet_type pc_continent in the console and transform something into a habitable planet, but it will have no deposits, just it's size worth of city capacity. So when the game is rolling up a new map, when/how does it add all the deposits and how can I tweak this to give a little more or less of something? I investigated this upthread. The deposits are added by generate_start_deposits_and_blockers in common\scripted_effects\01_start_of_game_effects.txt, and this (along with the effects that spawn the pops and the buildings) are called by the event game_start.12 in events\game_start.txt As a general rule, if there's something you're trying to find but don't know exactly where to look, Notepad++'s "find in files" feature is extremely useful. Baronjutter posted:I've found in the new economy energy is extremely trivial, specially with trade, food isn't really much of an issue either and you can always farm ringworlds, but minerals and mine-sites in general seem super rare. Is it because I'm playing continental and they tend to skew to one resource or another? Yes, each of the three planet categories (wet, dry, cold) is biased towards one of the three district types. Wet worlds get a lot of food, the worst resource. Azuth0667 posted:What do i do with dark matter? Those special high-level components you can get from fallen empires require it. Is there any use for living metal apart from the edicts? e: "add_deposit" definitely still exists. It's what Paradox are using to get those deposits onto planets. If you're trying to use it in a system initialiser it's not going to work because the setup script clears any deposits on the planet before it adds its own. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 11:03
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Autonomous Monster posted:Yes, each of the three planet categories (wet, dry, cold) is biased towards one of the three district types. Wet world get a lot of food, the worst resource.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:06
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owlfancier: someone help me budget this. my economy is dieing colonies: 3 alloys: 11 minerals: 23 optional factors inhibiting economic expansion: x10000% consumer goods: 5 thread: perhaps you could not pick things that make economic expansion harder owlfancier: no
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Dec 12, 2018 11:06
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What were the good trait mods called again?
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Dec 12, 2018 11:14
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So I'm horribly annoyed with how the UI breaks up bonuses because of it's limited width. I decided to see if you can edit it easily. I set the max width for the tooltip gui to 600 (from 400). Before:  After:  It does look worse on planet modifiers though duo to the localisation. I wish the max tooltip width would look at tooltips descriptions second. So in my example below the max tooltip width would be the width of the longest bonus, and not the max width because of the tooltip description. Before:  After: 
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Dec 12, 2018 11:15
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Autonomous Monster posted:I investigated this upthread. The deposits are added by generate_start_deposits_and_blockers in common\scripted_effects\01_start_of_game_effects.txt, and this (along with the effects that spawn the pops and the buildings) are called by the event game_start.9 in events\game_start.txt Whoops, this should be game_start.12
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Dec 12, 2018 11:16
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The sector logic appears to be "Is this new colony within 2 jumps of an existing sector? If so, add it, if not -> new sector" which is the kind of thing which makes perfect organic sense for some styles of settling but not for others. Unfortunately it doesn't even seem to work like that, even if it's supposed to. Sometimes it'll split a colony off onto its own sector even if it's right next to an existing sector for no apparent reason.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:20
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The sectors are fixed and created at the start of the game when the game is generating the galaxy, IIRC. It's part of the same code that makes hyperlane clusters and chokepoints, so each sector is a cluster. It'd be nice to have a mapmode to see those sectors like how you can see which provinces make up a state/duchy/whatever in other Paradox games.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:27
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Boksi posted:The sectors are fixed and created at the start of the game when the game is generating the galaxy, IIRC. It's part of the same code that makes hyperlane clusters and chokepoints, so each sector is a cluster. It'd be nice to have a mapmode to see those sectors like how you can see which provinces make up a state/duchy/whatever in other Paradox games. From what I can tell the sectors are created when you colonize a planet. The planet becomes the sector capital and adds all claimed systems up to two jumps away unless they are already in a sector. Unclaimed systems in the two jump area will be added once you finish the outpost and claim the system. Sectors being added on galaxy generation was the original idea, but they seems to have ditched it for the current system. I guess it had some issues. AG3 fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 11:32
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Boksi posted:The sectors are fixed and created at the start of the game when the game is generating the galaxy, IIRC. It's part of the same code that makes hyperlane clusters and chokepoints, so each sector is a cluster. It'd be nice to have a mapmode to see those sectors like how you can see which provinces make up a state/duchy/whatever in other Paradox games.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:38
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Splicer posted:No they said that in a dev diary but then changed it. Colonising a planet now checks to see if it's within 2 of an existing sector (or possibly within 2 of an existing sector capital, not sure) and if not, new sector. I'm very sure it's "within 2 jumps of a sector capital" which is what causes most of the problems we see. But basically there's no reason for sectors to even exist anymore except as an arbitrary Governor tax so I'd rather they just revamp the system entirely to be honest.
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Dec 12, 2018 11:56
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 This stupid caravan leaves my territory to the Yump system, flees the mauraders there, comes back and opens a trade window (which steals focus and pauses the game). Regardless of what options I pick from the trade window, he will then immediately leave my territory and head to the Yump system and the cycle continues. Every... two... months... And we were on track to get that first league ecomenopolis too...
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Dec 12, 2018 12:03
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Just abandon the system and write it off as a bug.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:09
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Guilliman posted:So I'm horribly annoyed with how the UI breaks up bonuses because of it's limited width. I decided to see if you can edit it easily. I set the max width for the tooltip gui to 600 (from 400). This is a huge improvement. It would be even better if the numbers lined up like in a table. (All the engineering numbers in the rightmost column, et cetera)
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Dec 12, 2018 12:11
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Are Criminal Empires worth it? I want to start a Brotherhood of Nod empire, but I've heard that criminals are hit hard, any tips? I also read upthread that if you let the AI close down a criminal outpost on a worthless planet, you'll have 20-odd years to place and build up a new one- is this still viable?
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Dec 12, 2018 12:16
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Demiurge4 posted:Just abandon the system and write it off as a bug. Sweet. He's still stuck in that cycle (probably forever), but at least he's not loving calling me every two months. Thanks!
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Dec 12, 2018 12:18
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Caved, tried 2.2 again. Still can't figure out how to make Life Seeded + Robots work, so I ran a hive-mind instead, on Admiral. A few observations. - By 2350 my squid dudes make up over 50% of all pops in the galaxy. Bio gestalts can really pump up those growth bonuses and break the new pop system. - Hive-minds really need Scavenger Drones to show up as unemployed in the outliner, checking every planet manually gets old fast. - Manual management of planets in general gets tedious when you have too many. Seems a problem when pop growth is king, since you want as many planets as you can get? Doesn't feel like I can ever be 'done' with a planet anymore. - AI is oddly weak. They've built stuff and kept up with me somewhat in tech, but their fleets sizes are all small, except for the FEs. - I feel like I need more economic input and output info from a planet, somehow. A pop-growth bar in the outliner, perhaps? Toggleable buttons in the planet view to show all the supply chains in a big window? Not sure. Hungry fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 12:31
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Fleet size being smaller may be a factor of alloys being harder to get but seeming to be 1:1 with old minerals as far as ships go.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:43
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Bedurndurn posted:Sweet. He's still stuck in that cycle (probably forever), but at least he's not loving calling me every two months. Thanks! Well, you can always free him once you're strong enough to wipe out the marauders.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:45
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For reference, here's what my subversive cult looks like a few years after your stardate  100 Stars, 1.0 habitables, 1 starting habitable, 0.75 tech and traditions. Note that I got boxed in by two megacorps so I'm almost entirely missing out on megacorps primary mechanic and am pretty crippled in terms of "what this empire is supposed to be doing". Also zero resettling and no manual controlling of jobs - it's just not necessary. And I've still got quite a lot more people, fleet power and income. You gotta run those +growth edicts, at all times. Grab planets early, no matte the habitability. Don't overbuild housing and jobs.
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Dec 12, 2018 12:55
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My god, this game. Started a new run as a Megacorp, did a bunch of stupid because things are new, but ended up cordoning off a large sector of the galaxy for myself. - Get invited to a federation with the other two strong empires on the other side of the galaxy. - Agree to a war against $whoever because they happen to have a defensive pact with my neighbor who I have a "border dispute" with... - After taking the first blow, my neighbor pulls two 20k fleets out of his pockets and occupies two prosperous colonies of mine. - I retreat in terror but they are content to just sit there - meanwhile my economy goes into all red. - I barely manage to scrape my way out of the eco hole, squashing several rebellions in the process. - The war with my neighbor eventually ends in a white peace and I get my colonies back. Things are looking up! - I open an L-Gate. - The nanite swarm consumes large parts of the galaxy. - Around the same time a Great Khan emerges and unifies the marauders who conquer a large chunk of space. - The Great Khan is killed in a battle against me and the nanites. - Meanwhile both my allies and their biggest rival are all but consumed by three separate machine uprisings. - My main shipyard finally falls after several machine fleets follow the nanites out of my L-Gate.
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Dec 12, 2018 13:18
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ok so a crime syndicate made a branch office on my capital and it got 100% crime overnight cool
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Dec 12, 2018 13:28
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Staltran posted:Well, you can always free him once you're strong enough to wipe out the marauders. Nah, gently caress him. He was trying to sell me 1000 consumer goods in exchange for 4 of my people.
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Dec 12, 2018 13:40
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These Numistic Caravaneers keep spamming me with offers to buy a tech I already bought from them, is there any way to mute them?
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Dec 12, 2018 13:51
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I had a short test game before the beta patch where a Caravaneer kept selling me a "Super Clunker" (a great cruiser) for 200 minerals. Ended up with 4-5 of them since they would pop in pretty regularly and each one was as strong as 2/3 of my corvette swarm or something. I was delighted at the time, but if it had been the guys who told me my planets smelled like poo poo it would've been great to have the option to make them permanently gently caress off (my planets smell like flowers because my pops are flowers).
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Dec 12, 2018 14:30
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I think OwlFancier is right in a certain way. You do actually end up playing the wait for pops to grow game while your resource accumulation outpaces your ability to use it if you only colonize a few planets. You are actually heavily punished for trying to invest your resources onto the planet beyond your population growth. There is no way AFAIK early on to overcome this. It's just not possible w/ the game mechanics. If you want to focus on economic development, you have to colonize other planets for the pop growth. Even suboptimal ones are good to colonize. And your early game resource acquisition can definitely get sapped by a mass colonization effort. However, you can still play tall with a few core worlds by shipping all your rim world population back to the core world. To min-max, you probably want to resettle the rimworlds up to 10 to maximize pop growth on those worlds. You also need to invest in a bunch of science ships to find those worlds. The most I think you can do economically if you don't want to mass colonize is to get your few worlds to generate enough food for pop growth edicts and policies. Then you mobilize the entire rest of your economy to research by building as much research buildings as you can possibly afford in upkeep while scrapping everything else. This will likely mean getting rid of existing buildings. I have no idea if this is a viable approach or not or if it's like watching paint dry. Maybe this approach lets you unlock the research options to build tall very quickly. The only other viable route is mobilizing your economy for war. comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Dec 12, 2018 |
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Dec 12, 2018 14:35
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It would actually be cool if the expansion push was the opposite. You *have* to expand because not doing so causes overpopulation and extreme crime on your planets. The only alleviation is emigration push to new worlds and technologies that improve your housing capacity.
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Dec 12, 2018 14:42
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I just set standards to utopian abundance on 2200.1.1 and I don't get any issues with too much minerals or free building slots that way since it's all used up in upkeep and research 
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Dec 12, 2018 14:43
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Tanked my entire economy by upgrading too many buildings at once. Don't do that, kids.
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Dec 12, 2018 14:48
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Rogue Servitors have a hilariously broken economy compared to the other empires I've played. Having to manage both food and consumer goods with an otherwise Machine Empire economy makes this super hard mode right now.
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Dec 12, 2018 14:56
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OTOH, you can be done with unity trees by 2300 as rogue servitor, their unity output is incredibly silly and it doesn't cost a lot considering. Use the initial 3 worlds for breeding your garden of biopops, turn all the rest into industrial hellscapes. biopops also count for building slots, so 2 biopop sanctuaries will unlock 4 additional building slots for your civilian and alloy industries.
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Dec 12, 2018 14:59
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Clarste posted:Rogue Servitors have a hilariously broken economy compared to the other empires I've played. Having to manage both food and consumer goods with an otherwise Machine Empire economy makes this super hard mode right now. Meanwhile Devouring Swarms are easy mode economy. You don't have to worry about consumer goods, your pop growth rate is astronomical, and if you ever run low on anything all you have to do is invade a neighbor and eat a few of their planets then sell off vast amounts of food to the internal market since you're now making +700 food per month.
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Dec 12, 2018 15:00
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DatonKallandor posted:For reference, here's what my subversive cult looks like a few years after your stardate  i have entirely too many people
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