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Seriously though, I feel like they could overhaul the economic and demographic base of CK in the next edition. I think a lot of the stuff they're doing with pops and trade in Imperator could be added to the next iteration. I mean, I know we're all playing CK for the interpersonal dynastic drama, but that doesn't mean the world beneath them can't be overhauled.
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Dec 14, 2018 09:11
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There are a lot of things they could do to make CK3 a noticeable upgrade. The building system is pretty lame, after a few hundred years, every holding will just have all the buildings built. There's little variation. Constantinople has the Theodosian Walls, that's the only map unique building at all. Merchant republics have a special building in their capital, some steppe affiliated cultures have replacement buildings for barracks and stables in steppe provinces, Tibetan culture Buddhists or Bön pagans have special monasteries in their castles, Hellenic pagans can choose to dedicate temples to certain gods (about 10 different iirc), which grants those temples the shrine associated with that god. And certain bloodlines allow you to build a special building chain in castles/cities/temples (dependent on the bloodline) you control. But that's it, and it's not a lot of variation. And a lot of it is pretty limited. You will find some Gompa monasteries in Tibet and perhaps parts of Northern India, you usually have about 3-4 merchant republics at the most, and Hellenic pagans are super rare if not controlled by the player. And there are only so many steppe provinces. There's a big potential for a building chain overhaul, to make provinces feel more unique. This could tie in with a genuine trade system, the Silk Road is very abstracted and limited in that regard. The new African Silk Road analogue is much better, because you have gold mines, salt mines, weavers, etc. Instead of the same trade post type in the whole Silk Road. And of course, there's a lot of room for more genuinely unique buildings. The Hagia Sophia, or the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, etc. I'm sure there were a lot of cool buildings in India that I don't know about as am ignorant European. Building and trade improvements are just one thing that would make CK3 a good idea imho. Muslims need a big overhaul for example, as do most non-European "feudals". Allowing us to leave a will concerning how our possessions are distributed would be really cool as well. I can think of a lot of positive changes. And if they improve the core mechanics enough, they can probably better build on that to create even more unique gameplays for Muslims, merchant republics, hordes, pagans, Indians, Chinese? Theocracies? Landless adventurers? That I would be willing to once again pay for a Sword of Islam, the Republic, etc. DLC.
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Dec 14, 2018 09:22
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Pylons posted:Just make The Guild 3 but actually good this time. Yes please, this.
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Dec 14, 2018 09:26
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Pylons posted:Just make The Guild 3 but actually good this time. Aw crap, is it bad?
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Dec 14, 2018 10:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How do you make a sequel to a game with 15 DLCs without pulling a The Sims and ripping out half of the features? We did it with EU3 -> EU4 so 
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Dec 14, 2018 11:53
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Spritepacks aren't real DLC, that's only 4.
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Dec 14, 2018 12:18
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And you can basically write off divine wind because it was horrible. 3 expansions isn’t much.
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Dec 14, 2018 12:21
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Personally I don’t think covering non feudal stuff would be a small thing. Beyond making playing in China (and the Byzantines, and Muslims, and so on) better, it could mean allowing you to play as landless characters and so on. I think it’d open a bunch of things up, and it also seems like the kind of change that’s hard to do in the current game. That + better graphics/portrait genetics + some changes to some economic systems like mentioned above (although I don’t think they need to go too deep on that, it’s not that kind of game) + streamlining the DLC features into the base game and I think it’s plenty justification to do a CK3.
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Dec 14, 2018 15:02
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Koramei posted:Personally I don’t think covering non feudal stuff would be a small thing. Beyond making playing in China (and the Byzantines, and Muslims, and so on) better, it could mean allowing you to play as landless characters and so on. I think it’d open a bunch of things up, and it also seems like the kind of change that’s hard to do in the current game. I'm surprised noone has yet mentioned that the whole combat / war side of CK2 also has plenty of room for improvement. It should obviously never be a low level thing in regards to combat like ordering units around but there is A LOT you could do with setting up formations / battle plans (events) and having more (indirect) player input in combat (mods that added proper duels are also a hint in which direction you could go). A lot of strategic and tactical depth could be added in that area and that doesn't even mention that the military and economy aspects of CK could (should?) be more intertwined (supply and manpower are handled in a very basic way, you could certainly do a lot more with them).
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Dec 14, 2018 15:22
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Farecoal posted:Aw crap, is it bad? 
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Dec 14, 2018 16:14
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I have to agree with the sentiment that there is plenty of things that can be done in a theoretical CK3. Most of these have already been listed, but
and there is probably more. You dont need to go into Pop Detail like Imperator is doing but adding it so you can play as a Republic of X where instead of playing as a family line, you are playing as that republic and you play as the spirit of that republic like in EU4, but if you lose the namesake city its gameover (or something like that).
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Dec 14, 2018 17:18
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Don't forget that moving to 64 bit let them put about as many provinces (cities) in Imperator as CK2 has baronies. Even if bishoprics and towns remained unplayable that's a huge visual upgrade.
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Dec 14, 2018 17:56
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I would gladly shell out for CK3 where all the best parts of the DLC from CK2 were rolled in with a ui and map overhaul. And that's not even getting into all the stuff that could be done with buildings, the economy, and combat.
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Dec 14, 2018 19:00
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How do you make a sequel to a game with 15 DLCs without pulling a The Sims and ripping out half of the features? Include all the DLCs in the base game. Have new engine that supports many goverment types. Streamline everything. New DLCs are for new goverment types: Deus Vult for Theocracies, Lambs to Lions for non-merchant republics, Pirate Life for Criminal Megacorps, Purple Phoenix for proper non-feudal Bizantine mechanics, etc. Eventually they'll release Europa by Night with WoD themes 
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Dec 14, 2018 19:19
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I also think that there is a good number of people scared away from CKII because of its complexity and the sheer quantity of DLC. Most people think that you cant play the game without at least some DLC and even with sales it can be a big bill to get the ones you think/heard that you need, By doing CK3, people who are interested in CKII/heard good things about it but never got into it because of the entrance cost and complexity may say "I'm going to get in on this one from the start".
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Dec 14, 2018 19:25
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CK3 should add in some more interaction with the peasants/workers. mainly I'd want it to add another side to the roleplaying aspect - you can go hours in a game without getting any events that remind you peasants exist, and the only thing you can do to interact with them of your own volition is hold a feast. yeah it's a state craft game, but the peasants were an important force in the medieval world, especially when it came to the sort of impact heresies could have, or if you're a merchant republic, the trade guilds could gently caress your poo poo up as bad or worse than discontent vassals. poo poo, I should be able to go through my demesne and find any quick/strong kids and bring them to my court.
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Dec 14, 2018 19:37
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I have to agree with the sentiment that there is plenty of things that can be done in a theoretical CK3. Most of these have already been listed, but A good CK3 will be technically missing features from CK2 DLC but its ok because it will obviously not fit 1:1 in the new game and you can see the bolt-on points where it might with mods or newer better DLC.
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Dec 14, 2018 19:43
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Farecoal posted:Aw crap, is it bad? They had to completely switch developers because the ones that made the Early Access didn't know what the gently caress they were doing.
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Dec 14, 2018 19:56
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I expect them to plan how they will deal with non feudal characters etc in the base game of CK3, but I'm fine with stuff that was DLC locked like merchant republics in CK2 being the same in CK3. Maybe make Muslims playable from the start, as they sre kinda s big deal.
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Dec 14, 2018 20:09
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Ck3 will properly incorporate the "peasant commune" govtype from the ck2+ modmod for Mazdaki rulers. You will be able to spend all game adjudicating disputes between various villages and towns while donating whatever small amounts of tax income end up in your coffers to those most in need by sending agitators to neighboring realms to sponsor suspiciously well-armed peasant uprisings
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Dec 14, 2018 20:29
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If you compare release Catholic with today's Catholics (with all DLC), it's a huge improvement. If CK3 ships with this kind of Catholic gameplay, plus a big overhaul to make decadence more fun and Muslims in total more historically accurate, it would be a good bargain. I certainly don't expect to be able to play pagans, republics, hordes, etc. at CK3 release, those will likely still come with DLC. And I would be fine with that, as long as they further improve those governments.
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Dec 14, 2018 20:31
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Ck3 will properly incorporate the "peasant commune" govtype from the ck2+ modmod for Mazdaki rulers. You will be able to spend all game adjudicating disputes between various villages and towns while donating whatever small amounts of tax income end up in your coffers to those most in need by sending agitators to neighboring realms to sponsor suspiciously well-armed peasant uprisings Just wait for my slow rear end to finish and play: 
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Dec 14, 2018 21:18
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I also think that there is a good number of people scared away from CKII because of its complexity and the sheer quantity of DLC. Most people think that you cant play the game without at least some DLC and even with sales it can be a big bill to get the ones you think/heard that you need, I can believe it, because that is exactly me with EUIV!
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Dec 14, 2018 21:20
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StealthArcher posted:Just wait for my slow rear end to finish and play: this loving rules
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Dec 14, 2018 21:32
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I think there's a terms of service agreement when you first boot up CK2 where you agree that the world should be ruled by monarchs and aristocrats because the common people are inherently inferior. I'd like a CK3 that opens up from the focus on aristocracy, but at that point maybe it'd be better to come up with a new name for it, especially since the crusades are already just a fancy sideshow in the game and not at all central anyways. In fact, I'd be just as happy to leave the Crusader Kings series fallow for a few years and see Paradox do something weird and new, like maybe a full-fledged fantasy game to build off of the weird stuff they did with Holy Fury.
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Dec 14, 2018 21:34
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StealthArcher posted:Just wait for my slow rear end to finish and play: What is this I must have it
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Dec 14, 2018 21:39
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indigi posted:this loving rules Now you get to decide if the people in question's government form, the Crimson Republic, bothers you when it's done. Service Guarantees Equality, Citizen. We shall all know more.  Starship Revolutionaries Crazycryodude posted:What is this I must have it Tentatively named Tyrannum Universalis cause I'm creative as a brick. It's my total conversion mod that takes a long time to work on solo. That said, here's a province map I finished a while back: 
StealthArcher fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Dec 14, 2018 |
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Dec 14, 2018 21:40
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indigi posted:CK3 should add in some more interaction with the peasants/workers. mainly I'd want it to add another side to the roleplaying aspect - you can go hours in a game without getting any events that remind you peasants exist, and the only thing you can do to interact with them of your own volition is hold a feast. yeah it's a state craft game, but the peasants were an important force in the medieval world, especially when it came to the sort of impact heresies could have, or if you're a merchant republic, the trade guilds could gently caress your poo poo up as bad or worse than discontent vassals. poo poo, I should be able to go through my demesne and find any quick/strong kids and bring them to my court.
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Dec 14, 2018 21:47
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CK3 should just have native glitterhoof support. Or just be about raising horses through the ages
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Dec 14, 2018 21:59
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I'm going to make a horse race in Stellaris. I will have the imperial ruler's title be "Glitterhoof" and name my first ruler Incitatus
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Dec 14, 2018 22:59
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There is already a horse race in the mamillian portraits so you just need a list of Glitterhood style names. And I wouldn’t be surprised if one already existed.
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Dec 15, 2018 00:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:maybe it'd be better to come up with a new name for it, especially since the crusades are already just a fancy sideshow in the game and not at all central anyways. They've already mentioned they regret the name, but at this point it's Paradox's most famous game by far right? I doubt they'd want to just lose all that brand awareness.
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Dec 15, 2018 00:40
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SlothfulCobra posted:In fact, I'd be just as happy to leave the Crusader Kings series fallow for a few years and see Paradox do something weird and new, like maybe a full-fledged fantasy game to build off of the weird stuff they did with Holy Fury. Crusader Kings 3: Secret of the Ooze
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Dec 15, 2018 02:01
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Koramei posted:They've already mentioned they regret the name, but at this point it's Paradox's most famous game by far right? I doubt they'd want to just lose all that brand awareness. My memory of what Johan has said is that it's Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, and then Crusader Kings. I could have HOI and EU reversed but it's definitely those 2 before anything else.
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Dec 15, 2018 02:08
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ulmont posted:My memory of what Johan has said is that it's Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, and then Crusader Kings. I could have HOI and EU reversed but it's definitely those 2 before anything else. iirc CK2 has sold more than double those other games on Steam (although I think they had a weekend where the base game was free at one point)
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Dec 15, 2018 02:16
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Unpopular opinion incoming I think they should take CK3 back to the lame catholic monarchies only system. I’m hoping with the new engine they’ll have for CK3, they’ll be able to focus on creating a much more robust system. Then, they can do expansive dlc using the lessons from CK2.
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Dec 15, 2018 03:39
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IAmThatIs posted:Unpopular opinion incoming Yeah, I think that bolting on mechanics for non-catholics in a system designed for catholics will work this time.
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Dec 15, 2018 05:22
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IAmThatIs posted:Unpopular opinion incoming I don't want this because I want the byzantines, nomads, Muslims and republics to all feel more unique then being this weird psuedo feudal system. But I also don't want to see India or China. At least not in the base game. I'd rather see them not included and have a more robust medieval Europe simulator then to try and cram in all of Eurasia. I think at that point it'll become too unfocused. I'd love to see a separate game that has the level of support that ckii or euiv had for Asia though.
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Dec 15, 2018 05:24
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ulmont posted:My memory of what Johan has said is that it's Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, and then Crusader Kings. I could have HOI and EU reversed but it's definitely those 2 before anything else. I'm pretty sure this is pre-CK2 though, which is far and away Paradox's most successful title (maybe excepting Stellaris?), to the point I've met people who only have a Steam account for it.
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Dec 15, 2018 05:34
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| # ? May 8, 2024 19:33 |
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Entirely by anecdote, but I think CK2 is the one with the biggest name awareness too, even for people that haven't played it. Crusades are pretty far down on my list of interests but I hope they don't ditch the title in the next one.Gaius Marius posted:I don't want this because I want the byzantines, nomads, Muslims and republics to all feel more unique then being this weird psuedo feudal system. But I also don't want to see India or China. At least not in the base game. I'd rather see them not included and have a more robust medieval Europe simulator then to try and cram in all of Eurasia. I think at that point it'll become too unfocused. That separate game will never happen, is the thing. To get a Paradox game with Asia in this period, it's either gotta be a mod or it's gotta be part of the base game, and the latter is obviously way preferable. Really this is a period where the world was already pretty connected; the characters might not interact directly (much), but things going on over on one end of the continent had an effect on the other end, and there obviously was direct contact too. To have the most robust Medieval Europe, not to mention Middle East and India (and I hardly see them ditching India now they added it) you should actually include the other stuff too. Also I think you have a point for CK2, but now there already is this extremely fleshed out base; there's already been the focus, and to flesh it out even better imo the most important thing is non-feudal stuff for the Byzantines and Muslims, which...is a perfect fit for East Asia too. With the much bigger map they can include, it gets over the other main hurdle of including the region too. Other than the enormous amount of research time that it'd take, but I think it deserves it. Koramei fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 05:36
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