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It makes perfect sense for competitive play to have a defined ruleset everyone can learn and master equally. But for just playing the game online it doesn't have to be that way.
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Dec 14, 2018 15:09
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To be fair, Oddjob IS bullshit
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Dec 14, 2018 15:17
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The way I understand Smash is a lot of the items and stages are there to level the playing field for newcomers by constantly throwing in variables into the fight. This precludes someone mastering one tactic/character and winning 100% of the time. I'm super new to the genre and series, but it seems to me it's more "control the chaos" design approach rather than practicing perfect timing on combos and stuff like that. I think the same can be said about Mario Kart. I encountered a similar thing with a friend of mine in Overwatch. We'd play deathmatch a lot and he'd only play Doomfist. He'd claim he's a really complicated character to play well and refuse to switch to more traditional shooty characters we would be playing. The problem with Doomfist is he's designed to kill off individual key characters by smashing them against a wall, retreat and repeat. So I started picking Reaper who can turn into a ghost briefly. He started moaning almost immediatelly how unfair Reaper is as I learned to time it right. He'd start flying off cliffs he was trying to launch me into, or impotently hitting walls while I was wrecking his poo poo. It took him a good week of "I don't like this game anyway" ragequits before he started picking other characters. I hate playing reaper.
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Dec 14, 2018 15:36
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CJacobs posted:It makes perfect sense for competitive play to have a defined ruleset everyone can learn and master equally. I don't really think it's a question of whether it makes sense or not, just whether one agrees with the choices made. Outside of videogames, or at least Smash specifically, there are tons of different rulesets for games and sports in competitive and professional play. Competitions for Smash could change the "game" being played during tournaments or different competitions could specialize in different rulesets. It's always kind of mind-blowing that in the World Series, the most important series of games in baseball, the rules change as the two teams go back and forth between each other's stadiums because the National League and American League have different rules about pitchers.
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Dec 14, 2018 15:39
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Personally I prefer playing on simpler stages with a limited pool of items (a lot of the stages are kinda bad and a lot of the items are really powerful and can distract from the core gameplay of just hitting each other), but the nice thing about smash is that the game still works with a bunch of different rule sets. People tend to go all or nothing with items, so you don’t see “some items” very much. It’d be cool to take that online if that’s an option like you all seem to be saying. I haven’t messed around in online much, but if it randomly chooses preferred rules, does that mean someone can do something really wacky like “golden hammer only, max drop rate” and have it actually appear? If so, that’s hilarious and I have to do that.
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Dec 14, 2018 15:50
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Nah, the preferred rules options are sadly really limited. game type, game length, stage type, player setup, and 5 item options, smash ball, assists, pokemon, the s flags and then everything else. it really doesn't make for more interesting online matches so much as it usually results in a gamemode nobody wants, like teams on a omega stage. Worse, you don't really get to pick the stage at all, its always random and the options only allow you to pick either regular, flat, or flat but with platforms. The biggest problem is the lack of ability to do the opposite of pick a preferred setup and pick stuff you want to never see if possible.
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Dec 14, 2018 17:54
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The issue isn't that competitive play decides on rules for balancing, it's that John Q Goofball is convinced that they need to play it that way too and that it's SO unfair you would pick Ness, how could you, the metrics say I should win. "Gamers" are the worst thing about video games.
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Dec 14, 2018 18:08
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I'm playing Mafia 3 because I needed something violent that my baby-numbed brain can handle, and the repetitive bullshit I've heard about sounds perfect for that. I really like the way the story is framed, at least in the first few hours. Sure, you have your normal cutscenes, but it has between mission cutscenes interspersed in it that switch from modern-day documentary footage and interviews and a 1971 congressional hearing with one of the principal characters as the defendant. Those do a really good job at drip feeding exactly what kind of man Lincoln Clay really is. Spoilers below: I just finished the amusement park. Clay killing the Dixie Mafia boss by wrapping a noose around his neck, strapping the other end to a Ferris wheel compartment, and turning it on was BRUTAL, and seemed at odds with the way Clay is portrayed in cutscenes as a straight shooting, loyal, friendly guy. Then it cuts to a scene at the hearing, with Clay's CIA buddy explaining the horrible special forces and psychological warfare poo poo they got up to in Vietnam. That hanging made total sense after that, and, as a bonus, made psychopathic in-game Lincoln Clay and cutscene Lincoln Clay seem like the same person, rather than a GTA protagonist lamenting the violence of their lives while driving on the sidewalk.
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Dec 14, 2018 18:45
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OutOfPrint posted:I'm playing Mafia 3 because I needed something violent that my baby-numbed brain can handle, and the repetitive bullshit I've heard about sounds perfect for that. I really like the way the story is framed, at least in the first few hours. Sure, you have your normal cutscenes, but it has between mission cutscenes interspersed in it that switch from modern-day documentary footage and interviews and a 1971 congressional hearing with one of the principal characters as the defendant. Those do a really good job at drip feeding exactly what kind of man Lincoln Clay really is. Spoilers below: You've only just dinged the surface, there's so much more to go down. There's only a handful of people in that entire game that aren't hosed up in some way. And not R* hosed up, where they're just horrible people, but they're fun and interesting, while also being unrepentant killers and thieves, it's great.
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Dec 14, 2018 19:14
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Yeah, Mafia III got crapped on a lot but it has the best story of any open world crime game I’ve played in a while.
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Dec 14, 2018 19:42
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CJacobs posted:It makes perfect sense for competitive play to have a defined ruleset everyone can learn and master equally. But for just playing the game online it doesn't have to be that way. Whenever I watch Nintendo sponsored Smash events they tend to be with items on. You'll have a close and exciting match and then whoops a heart container just spawned right next to Pikachu and that's game. No items just makes sense if you're trying to play it as a serious competitive game, and there's nothing wrong with playing it that way (unless you can't read a room and try to force a group of other people who have no interest to do so). Also I don't know how it is in Sm5sh but the final smash balance in previous games has been mindblowingly awful.
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Dec 14, 2018 20:03
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I'm a big fan of 7/10 games, the video game equivalents to B-movies. Mafia 3 feels like either a B-movie with a brilliant director, or a AAA movie with a B-movie director. It's hard to tell which, but I'm fine either way. It feels like a good counterpart to Sleeping Dogs, actually, like the video game equivalent of a matinee, with Sleeping Dogs as the opener martial arts flick, Mafia 3 as the grindhouse revenge flick. I'm surprised at how much I'm enjoying it, especially since the other Mafia games didn't really do much for me.
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Dec 14, 2018 20:09
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I liked the idea of Mafia 1 and 2, but hated the execution. "Hey here's a mission where you have to get in a car chase, oh also drive the speed limit or cops will get on you.  " Mafia 3 feels like they finally got it right on the balance between making a world and as well as a fun game. Cops won't ding you just for speeding unless you do something else to piss them off, you'll get into firefights with the baddies where you have to flee because someone called the cops on all the ruckus, but it never felt too unfair. Aside from a few dumb missions, but far less than in any other game of it's kind save Sleepy Dogs.
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Dec 14, 2018 20:16
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So hades is a early access game made by supergiant games and that already means that the writing is good and the art is nice, but even the placeholder art is nice. Its just a person in a fancy robe, but they have little things to differentiate them, like Sisyphus having a smirk or nyx having a blindfold slightly visible. Shame its currently stuck on epic games game platform.
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Dec 14, 2018 21:06
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The Moon Monster posted:Whenever I watch Nintendo sponsored Smash events they tend to be with items on. You'll have a close and exciting match and then whoops a heart container just spawned right next to Pikachu and that's game. No items just makes sense if you're trying to play it as a serious competitive game, and there's nothing wrong with playing it that way (unless you can't read a room and try to force a group of other people who have no interest to do so). Found the dweeb.
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Dec 14, 2018 21:14
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Biplane posted:Found the dweeb. Hi Dweeb! 
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Dec 14, 2018 21:25
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There's a smash thread if people wanna bitch about this stuff.
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Dec 14, 2018 21:25
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The Moon Monster posted:Whenever I watch Nintendo sponsored Smash events they tend to be with items on. You'll have a close and exciting match and then whoops a heart container just spawned right next to Pikachu and that's game. No items just makes sense if you're trying to play it as a serious competitive game, and there's nothing wrong with playing it that way (unless you can't read a room and try to force a group of other people who have no interest to do so). Have you met the people that love playing competitive smash?
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Dec 14, 2018 21:26
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I'll be honest the past week or two is the first time I've played Smash in like a decade, and I've never played it competitively. I've always thought that people online acting affronted by stuff like tier lists and competitive rulesets is super weird though!
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Dec 14, 2018 21:34
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The Moon Monster posted:I'll be honest the past week or two is the first time I've played Smash in like a decade, and I've never played it competitively. I've always thought that people online acting affronted by stuff like tier lists and competitive rulesets is super weird though! I haven’t played in like a decade either (psyched to get a switch and ultimate soon though), but I remember in high school whenever we’d get a crowd together to play Smash there’s always be one rear end in a top hat who only wanted final destination, no items.
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Dec 14, 2018 21:36
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I'm not sure what's heavier when it comes to the average competitive Smash player: the CRT TVs they always lug around or the cloud of B.O. Those guys can get completely bonkers. Even beyond the above, the narrowing down of a game that's entire appeal is the diverse array of characters, levels, and items to one level, no items, and a handful of characters is just such a waste.
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Dec 14, 2018 21:42
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Holy poo poo talk about the correct way to play video games someplace else
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Dec 14, 2018 21:57
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I'm not sure what's heavier when it comes to the average competitive Smash player: the CRT TVs they always lug around or the cloud of B.O. Well they're trying to get it down to being more like every other fighting game, free of the random chaos of giant purple space dragons and wild dangerous drivers barreling down the street at 80 MPH. Street Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, even Dead or Alive or Skullgirls don't require you to jump up a ledge to attack someone. It makes sure everyone's on level playing ground where the only thing that decides the match is who's better at playing Fox. Sure, that can make it very boring to watch or talk to some people, like playing Mario Party only instead of doing minigames you just play rock paper scissors to see who gets the 10 coins but oh well I'm just not the market for that.
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Dec 14, 2018 22:02
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I'm not sure what's heavier when it comes to the average competitive Smash player: the CRT TVs they always lug around or the cloud of B.O. Wait, do they actually carry around CRT TV's? My favorite little thing I experienced last night. Dragging allies you plan to stab in the back into a war with you in EU4 and letting them get sieged into oblivion and weakened. Usually they will make a separate peace where they will have to annul treaties with you, so you can win the war and be set up for the next one against your weaker former ally. Not really a "little thing" as much as its a fun, dickish strategy.
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Dec 14, 2018 22:04
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Back in Melee days when I was feeling kind of dickish, I'd like to sometimes slam pick the Poke Floats stage, a constantly-changing seris of giant Pokémon floating in a pink, cloudy void. The music was a medley of Pokémon battle themes with a kind of spooky sci-fi feel that I think really complemented the visuals to give you this feeling that reality was breaking down. The few stages that got left out of Ultimate all kind of sucked (the constantly vertically-scrolling Donkey Kong stage from Brawl sticks out to me), and I'm a bit sad to see Poke Floats go.
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Dec 14, 2018 22:06
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Glagha posted:Holy poo poo talk about the correct way to play video games someplace else Yeah, this is literally the exact opposite of the right thread. Smash's competitive fanbase belongs in the "dragging games down" thread.
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Dec 14, 2018 22:07
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I liked how in Smash TV, you could win toasters.
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Dec 14, 2018 22:29
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My favorite little thing in Smash is people freaking out over how to play it.
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Dec 14, 2018 22:38
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I'm not sure what's heavier when it comes to the average competitive Smash player: the CRT TVs they always lug around or the cloud of B.O. I used to bartend at a barcade that had semi regular smash tournaments and no other crowd was so unpredictable. Sometimes it was like 10-years-on frat bros who were obnoxious and loud but bought a ton of beer and didn't smell bad or stare at my coworker's chest Then sometimes it was your typical latex glove filled with two bathtubs of cottage cheese looking guys with superiority complexes and bad hair complaining about which smash we were playing or that we allowed things other than Final destination. Never knew what I was in for.
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Dec 14, 2018 23:04
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The Moon Monster posted:Also I don't know how it is in Sm5sh but the final smash balance in previous games has been mindblowingly awful. It’s still pretty bad, but made better by FS being chargeable through combat, since it makes getting them more reliable, but they’re also weaker. They aren’t really decisive unless you have a lot of damage, don’t have such a commanding presence on the field, and feel a little more comparable to supers in real fighting games.
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Dec 14, 2018 23:13
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OutOfPrint posted:I'm playing Mafia 3 because I needed something violent that my baby-numbed brain can handle, and the repetitive bullshit I've heard about sounds perfect for that. I really like the way the story is framed, at least in the first few hours. Sure, you have your normal cutscenes, but it has between mission cutscenes interspersed in it that switch from modern-day documentary footage and interviews and a 1971 congressional hearing with one of the principal characters as the defendant. Those do a really good job at drip feeding exactly what kind of man Lincoln Clay really is. Spoilers below: I love how much of a tank Lincoln feels like. The stealth kills have so much weight behind them and for some reason even the way he handles firearms feel like they shoot better in his hands. And it is a goddamn great revenge story and I savored that poo poo, repetitive transport missions or not.
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Dec 14, 2018 23:27
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Leal posted:My favorite little thing in Smash is people freaking out over how to play it. Unironically this. A friend went to a Brawl tournament at Gencon one year and we watch a guy absolutely flip his poo poo because he couldn't use the wavebird he brought. My friend did really fuckin' bad so we ended up leaving after round one but I imagine things would gotten funnier
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Dec 15, 2018 00:02
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Ahh come on, threads been dead for days. I like reading about the new videogames in the one of two videogame threads I follow in this dead gay videogame forum.
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Dec 15, 2018 00:47
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Pook Good Mook posted:The issue isn't that competitive play decides on rules for balancing, it's that John Q Goofball is convinced that they need to play it that way too and that it's SO unfair you would pick Ness, how could you, the metrics say I should win. As a relatively competent but ultimately non-competitive FG player, this is why I always loved that Dan was actually kind of viable in SFIV. Serious people haaaate losing to Dan. 
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Dec 15, 2018 00:52
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RyokoTK posted:It’s still pretty bad, but made better by FS being chargeable through combat, since it makes getting them more reliable, but they’re also weaker. They aren’t really decisive unless you have a lot of damage, don’t have such a commanding presence on the field, and feel a little more comparable to supers in real fighting games. It's actually not chargeable in the default timed play from what I've seen. I do love that they made the trap smash power ups though so folks not paying attention can easily kill themselves when they get greedy for that FS.
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Dec 15, 2018 04:26
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My favorite thing involving that is that if you don't pay attention to the fake its totally possible for someone to detonate it from a range right in your face.
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Dec 15, 2018 04:36
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Aleph Null posted:I liked how in Smash TV, you could win toasters. And a year's supply of good meat! How long is a Smash TV contestant expected to live, after the show? You could feed a small country with your winnings!
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Dec 15, 2018 07:01
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Pook Good Mook posted:The issue isn't that competitive play decides on rules for balancing, it's that John Q Goofball is convinced that they need to play it that way too and that it's SO unfair you would pick Ness, how could you, the metrics say I should win. This is a problem in lots of games, yes. Even in cooperative games kicking players out of the group for not minmaxing properly becomes default behaviour too often.
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Dec 15, 2018 07:36
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Pook Good Mook posted:Wait, do they actually carry around CRT TV's? DMorbid has a new favorite as of 08:32 on Dec 15, 2018 |
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Dec 15, 2018 08:24
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| # ? May 20, 2024 23:59 |
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No, good HDTVs nowadays are down to a frame or two of lag, and by that I mean like 1-3ms. You'd have competitive smash players (*shudder*) making GBS threads their pants with 20ms of input delay.
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