|
Discendo Vox posted:Question/challenge for you lawyerfolk that might be entertaining for the thread: explain wrongful life vs wrongful birth actions. While this article* is generally hostile to wrongful birth and wrongful life actions, it points out that the usual tort economic rationales do make a case for these actions. quote:At first impression, wrongful birth and life actions may seem therapeutically valuable to the community because they provide individuals with a consistent source of funding for the high cost of medical care that often accompanies severe impairments. Several courts and commentators have offered this rationale in support of both torts.166 These authors argue that whatever the intangible effects of such actions on the psyche and well-being of individuals with disabilities, there is a tangible need for money to secure the services that the litigants may desperately need.167 The families of disabled individuals will clearly suffer in the absence of compensation, because the stress, concern, and fear for each child’s future are unlikely to abate in the absence of a consistent and secure source of funding. As a result, these authors maintain that the transfer of wealth effected by wrongful birth and life suits is both beneficial to the litigants and consistent with one of the fundamental goals of tort law—loss spreading.168 *IIRC, Dean Hensel left BIGLAW to have more time to take care of her disabled children, which may color the viewpoint.
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2018 06:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:09 |
|
|
I feel like you can have that transfer of life without essentially calling it "shouldn't have been born" though. I mean ideally you'd have a social safety net such that society would foot the bill but lol.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2018 13:00
|
|
|
Advance apologies if this is not the right place for this. I have a question about a notarized document. The document was notarized in Washington and contains the signature and printed name, the stamp, and the date. The boilerplate also has a line for "Notary public in and for the state of Washington, residing at ____ My appointment expires ____" Those blanks are left blank although the expiration date for the commission is on the stamp so it's not actively missing. This document is a durable power of attorney that has been used to take care of the affairs of a disabled relative. I have been using it in Oregon since June with no issues, including banks, long term care insurance, Social Security Administration to set up Rep-Payee, and everywhere else I've needed it. I need to close a Bank of America account. Their notary will not accept the Durable PoA because those two lines are left blank. It's not really curable by the notary because these documents were drawn up a decade ago and he's retired and it would be quite an effort to track him down. I've been through Washington's notary guide and it doesn't seem to require those lines in the first place. I looked at the Oregon guide and it does seem to require "My appointment expires..." but since this was notarized in Washington I don't see how that matters. Any thoughts or experience?
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2018 21:56
|
|
|
xrunner posted:Advance apologies if this is not the right place for this. I have a question about a notarized document. The document was notarized in Washington and contains the signature and printed name, the stamp, and the date. The boilerplate also has a line for "Notary public in and for the state of Washington, residing at ____ My appointment expires ____" Those blanks are left blank although the expiration date for the commission is on the stamp so it's not actively missing. Try a different bank and hope they don't raise the same issue. Edit: A lot of bankers will not want to open an account for someone who is not there for obvious reasons.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
therobit posted:Try a different bank and hope they don't raise the same issue. Oh. I have the new account all set up already. I'm manually moving money from the BoA to the new account each month when the SS and pension deposits come in. The durable PoA and trust documents and letter from her doctor have been more than enough everywhere else I have been - and BoA honors the checks I write under the authority of the durable PoA. I will need to close this BoA account though as once the rep-payee is finalized I'll have everything go to the new account. I wanted to get ahead of that and get access to the BoA account now and find out what the process will be. In the end, I can just drain the BoA account and let it wither and die, but it's one of those accounts that will start racking up fees if under a particular balance and no direct deposit and I don't want to deal with that if it can be helped.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2018 22:15
|
|
|
Try the branch manager, or a different branch? or get a new PoA? It is unlikely you convince the notary that you are right under the law and that the notary then caves When you say BoA honors the checks, do you mean checks you write on the account or checks you deposit on the account?
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
xrunner posted:Oh. I have the new account all set up already. I'm manually moving money from the BoA to the new account each month when the SS and pension deposits come in. The durable PoA and trust documents and letter from her doctor have been more than enough everywhere else I have been - and BoA honors the checks I write under the authority of the durable PoA. I will need to close this BoA account though as once the rep-payee is finalized I'll have everything go to the new account. I wanted to get ahead of that and get access to the BoA account now and find out what the process will be. In the end, I can just drain the BoA account and let it wither and die, but it's one of those accounts that will start racking up fees if under a particular balance and no direct deposit and I don't want to deal with that if it can be helped. Yeah, in that case go to another branch. Explain to a branch manager if necessary first. It will probably also help if you drain it first so they aren't worrying about being on the hook for any funds in the account.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2018 22:32
|
|
|
EwokEntourage posted:Try the branch manager, or a different branch? or get a new PoA? It is unlikely you convince the notary that you are right under the law and that the notary then caves Yeah. That's what I was kind of afraid you'd say. The notary is sticking her foot down and she's in charge of her turf. What a headache. Her pension and SS get direct deposited into BoA and then I use her checks to pay the adult foster care home and copays and prescriptions. I can use her debit for smaller stuff but the monthly rent to the facility needs to be a check. I'm getting rep payee so that I can just have full control but that's not done yet. I've looked into a more recent PoA but every single person other than BoA has accepted the one I have, and it sounds like it would be a huge hassle and process since she's not competent to actually sign a new one and I'd have to get courts involved.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2018 22:33
|
|
|
Poa laws may have been updated in your state and the old one doesn’t work anymore . A common problem.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 00:29
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Poa laws may have been updated in your state and the old one doesn’t work anymore . A common problem. That sounds frustrating as hell. I can't imagine trying to navigate this whole messed up annoying process and having that on top of it. From what I've read elsewhere I've been extremely lucky with not having problems with it anywhere except this one BoA. My situation is very much just a problem with the way the notary on it was filled out though. The lady at BoA would have accepted it if not for those two fields being blank and actually suggested I go back to the lawyer and get it corrected. But sadly he's retired and I have not been able to get in contact with him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 01:55
|
|
|
xrunner posted:That sounds frustrating as hell. I can't imagine trying to navigate this whole messed up annoying process and having that on top of it. From what I've read elsewhere I've been extremely lucky with not having problems with it anywhere except this one BoA. My situation is very much just a problem with the way the notary on it was filled out though. The lady at BoA would have accepted it if not for those two fields being blank and actually suggested I go back to the lawyer and get it corrected. But sadly he's retired and I have not been able to get in contact with him. Uh It’s usually something you hire lawyers for yes
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 01:59
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Uh I got Power of Attorney over myself so that I wouldn't have to talk to you fancy-pants lawyers when I need to draw up a will, convey real estate, or sue the FBI, NSA, and Barack Obama in his personal capacity for stealing my thoughts
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 02:29
|
|
|
xrunner posted:That sounds frustrating as hell. I can't imagine trying to navigate this whole messed up annoying process and having that on top of it. From what I've read elsewhere I've been extremely lucky with not having problems with it anywhere except this one BoA. My situation is very much just a problem with the way the notary on it was filled out though. The lady at BoA would have accepted it if not for those two fields being blank and actually suggested I go back to the lawyer and get it corrected. But sadly he's retired and I have not been able to get in contact with him. From their perspective they are trying to protect the customer (you uncle or whomever) and themselves from what might be a bogus document.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 02:42
|
|
|
Have you considered gaining legal guardianship? In my experience, banks will do whatever the gently caress you ask them to if you have a court order, whether it’s the right thing to do or not
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 04:03
|
|
|
EwokEntourage posted:Have you considered gaining legal guardianship? In my experience, banks will do whatever the gently caress you ask them to if you have a court order, whether it’s the right thing to do or not Guardianship is often overkill. It can inadvertently terminate a lot of the ward's rights (to vote, marry, etc), is expensive, and can impose heavy duties on the guardian which may come with legal consequences (for example, responsibility for medical bills). It's a court intervention and courts are always best avoided. Bank of America is cranky as gently caress about paperwork, just shift to a different bank that isn't devouring America.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 04:39
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Guardianship is often overkill. It can inadvertently terminate a lot of the ward's rights (to vote, marry, etc), is expensive, and can impose heavy duties on the guardian which may come with legal consequences (for example, responsibility for medical bills). It's a court intervention and courts are always best avoided. Just a consideration, the person might not actually meet the qualifications. The person is disabled and in an elderly home, i don’t think they’re missing much. Also I don’t think (in Texas) a guardianship puts you one the hook for the guardians expenses, especially considering that the court can appoint your guardian against your wishes. Getting a different bank and a proper PoA is the best option, I Agree
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 04:48
|
|
|
Well, they can't get a different bank until they close this account... Is there any way you can bring the person you have PoA for down there with you? Maybe they'll do it with them physically present.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 04:52
|
|
|
KillHour posted:Well, they can't get a different bank until they close this account... Is there any way you can bring the person you have PoA for down there with you? Maybe they'll do it with them physically present. I actually do already have a new bank account opened for her (local credit union) and this is more about wanting access to close the BoA account once the rep-payee for her SS and pension is finalized and I move the deposits. She is in an adult foster care home and the POA has allowed me to do pretty much everything else so it’s more annoying that I can’t close this than super pressing. Thanks everyone for the help and insight tho. It seems clear that BOA is just being assholes/throwing up roadblocks so I’m just going move the direct deposits once I can and write a check to transfer whatever balance there is and let them go gently caress themselves.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 05:58
|
|
|
Yeah it sounds like you def don’t need a lawyer lol This is sarcasm.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 11:44
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Yeah it sounds like you def don’t need a lawyer lol I consulted with a lawyer initially which is where I got the advice to do things like create a new bank account, get rep payee status, etc... I know I’ll need one once she dies but she’s fairly stable now (just not particularly present - the stroke took a lot out of her but she could easily go on for a decade - it’s pretty sad and I dropped the ball on this one because I was out of town the night she had the stroke and her daughter talked the doctor into overriding her advanced care directive). Fortunately my aunt planned pretty well. There’s a long term care insurance policy about to kick in (annoying to set up). I’m durable POA and successor trustee and executor. The biggest challenge has been my cousin/her daughter who just can’t comprehend why she wasn’t given these tasks and why I won’t use my aunt’s money to buy her a house (and she thinks there is a lot more money than there is) and I can see potentially needing a lawyer in this front eventually. I havent even showed her the will yet which is not going to be fun... It’s pretty brutal (she has to get monthly UAs to get $500/month...) and because I’m a sucker I let myself be talked into handling that, too, but if there’s even any money left in the end I may just hand that off to a pro because it’s definitely not worth the hassle. Honestly depending on how long she lives there may not be anything left anyway. The next biggest hassle after her daughter has been wrangling with Medicare. I doubt a lawyer would help deal with these issues (billing/copays/coverage of things/etc...). At that consultation the lawyer mentioned that some people might not like the POA due to age but it hasn’t been a problem. He’s available to me if I need him again. I’m not paying that amount of money to close one bank account though. You have read a lot into what I’ve asked about, which was just advice on a notarized document. It I appreciate the looking out and I want to make sure she’s cared for and I promise I will be going to a lawyer if more complex issues come up. I’ve been handling this for months and I really just wanted to know if it was worth fighting with BOA in an issue that seemed much too small to pay for a lawyer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 16:14
|
|
|
xrunner posted:I get your concern and I’m not a fool. I’ve been neck deep in this for months and it’s finally getting to a state of almost done. Lol your cousin is gonna sue you get a lawyer now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 18:05
|
|
|
therobit posted:Lol your cousin is gonna sue you get a lawyer now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 18:07
|
|
|
Also get someone to review the will because those provisions may or may not be valid. e: seriously you should have someone else handling every part of this. If there's any amount of money involved you should have professionals doing all of this leg work. Your poa should just be signing paperwork, not actually doing any heavy lifting. Get someone that has some sort of malpractice liability to do all of the things you need otherwise you're going to get drawn into a lengthy and painful legal battle when your aunt finally dies (if not sooner). If you hire an attorney to do everything and they gently caress up, you have recourse to correct the fuckup. If you gently caress it up, though,  Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Dec 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 18:08
|
|
|
quote:I’m not paying that amount of money to close one bank account though. You have read a lot into what I’ve asked about, which was just advice on a notarized document. We’re lawyers lol that’s what we do. You got the common sense non lawyer advice, which you accepted, and you got the lawyer advice, which understandably is a money concern. But you’ve recognized the potential issues, and pro active attorneys fees are always less than reactive attorneys fees. I don’t think anyone is doubting your dedication to taking care of your relative, which is laudable because family and estate matters always end up being entirely hosed up. But, uh, get a lawyer dude (especially if your old lawyer was old and then retired, old lawyers can be stuck in their ways and not acknowledge that the law/norms)
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
If you do decide to keep winging it, though, please keep us updated.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 18:24
|
|
|
therobit posted:Lol your cousin is gonna sue you get a lawyer now. It's my biggest fear but there are reasons I'm not sure it's super likely (mainly she's awful at navigating systems and has no money plus her case would be quite weak - I don't intend to show her the will because she's going to flip when she finds out those terms - she can learn when it's relevant and there will of course be a lawyer involved at that point - it feels super cruel to me to hide this information because I know she is depending on her big inheritance (she also thinks my aunt has a lot more money than she actually does) and she's going to have the rug pulled out from under her when she learns and it seems cruel not to give her time to process that information while also grieving - but at the same time it's just going to be too much to deal with - my cousin is going to flip the gently caress out and I just can't deal with it at this time). Mr. Nice! posted:Also get someone to review the will because those provisions may or may not be valid. Thanks for the advice. I should have included a lot more details in my initial post but didn't think they were relevant. I'm not in a situation where I'm concerned about the quality of the documents or about liability. As I've mentioned, I have been to a lawyer and gone through all these documents and they're all in good shape. If I need him again I will go back to him. I've mostly got all this stuff in order by now and my bed is clean as to the decisions I'm making for her (I'm not self dealing/haven't compensated myself for gas and expenses even though clearly allowed to/etc...). There is a fair amount of money but it's low six figures, not millions, and she could easily live another decade so I don't know that much of it will even be left at the end. I would rather hold this money for her care than use it to pay a lawyer to do things like set up bank accounts, cancel cell phones, deal with SS, etc... and the POA has held up fine for all medical decision making which a lawyer can't help me with anyway, nor would the lawyer have been able to help me move her stuff into storage or find the right adult foster home or any of the other million things that this has involved. The lawyer was pretty clear about things, first, the fact that she made me her POA and successor trustee and everything rather than her daughter is something that anyone in the field will immediately notice as a red flag about my cousin. The will clause requiring her inheritance be held in trust subject to monthly disbursements based on UAs (also a work requirement) is something else that will immediately flag her as not reliable. I had a thorough consultation and took detailed notes and have the lawyer available if needed. From the various responses I got above I get the sense that BoA is being a dick because they don't want to give me access. It sounds like they're not going to work with me even if I get the notarization fixed so it's basically them being picky and it's not worth trying to fight with them. I can work around that. I'm not worried about elder abuse charges because I've carefully documented all expenditures and they're 100% for her care. As I said, I've spoken to a lawyer, I don't need one for the part I'm doing right now and if that changes I'll bring one back. HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 18:32
|
|
|
EwokEntourage posted:We’re lawyers lol that’s what we do. You got the common sense non lawyer advice, which you accepted, and you got the lawyer advice, which understandably is a money concern. But you’ve recognized the potential issues, and pro active attorneys fees are always less than reactive attorneys fees. Mr. Nice! posted:If you do decide to keep winging it, though, please keep us updated. Yes, please do, it's almost always funny. DIY lawyering is almost always like DIY plumbing or electrics, it might turn out okay and it likely wont, the consequences are often much bigger than you expect, and down the line someone is likely to get majorly screwed. Also lol xrunner posted:It's my biggest fear but there are reasons I'm not sure it's super likely (mainly she's awful at navigating systems and has no money plus her case would be quite weak How do you know that? I said how do you know that. Are you a time traveller? You sound a lot like a guy I had in a probate case that was a lot more complex than I originally assumed (because he held a lot of poo poo back due to ignorance and not wanting to pay me to find out). So he just said "nah forget all that it'll be alright it's just my uncle and what can he really do, just give me the cliff's notes to estate managment and that's all I need" In the end it turned out he'd filled out some poo poo wrong and what the uncle could do was file an allodial claim to the primary property. It's funny how that goes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:If you do decide to keep winging it, though, please keep us updated.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
Question: How do appeals work and how long do you have to go that route? For background, just got a divorce and there were very blatant "no-no" things the judge did my lawyer pointed out that I could easily appeal. He listed four or five things but only two really stood out. I forget the term he used (point negative or something?), but he's not an appeals lawyer. There's time sensitivity relative to real property changing hands and how funds were distributed against equity so I'm not wanting to sit around until it's too late. e: also for the record, thanks to a benefit through work, I can hire a lawyer for virtually free to do the appeals, was just curious about timing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:Question: How do appeals work and how long do you have to go that route? For background, just got a divorce and there were very blatant "no-no" things the judge did my lawyer pointed out that I could easily appeal. He listed four or five things but only two really stood out. I forget the term he used (point negative or something?), but he's not an appeals lawyer. Depends on your jurisdiction. In my line of work, some appeals must be filed within 30 days.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 19:32
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:Depends on your jurisdiction. In my line of work, some appeals must be filed within 30 days. Say mine's 30 days, when do those 30 days begin? I'm concerned the holidays are going to cause huge delays in getting the ball rolling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 19:38
|
|
|
It can depend but usually 30 days starts from the formal entry of a judgment. But there are different kinds of judgment and sometimes the time starts when the judge rules from the bench, sometimes when the judgment is put into writing and signed, sometimes when the signed judgment is formally sent to the parties by the clerk, sometimes it’s 30 day and sometimes 60...ask your lawyer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 20:29
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:If you do decide to keep winging it, though, please keep us updated. They never do
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 23:39
|
|
|
How hard is it to be lawyer really? It’s just forms and paperwork !!
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 23:40
|
|
|
By the way I should be more clear What you actually need to do is get a lawyer for your mom and pay for her (the lawyer) using your moms money.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2018 23:42
|
|
|
Phil Moscowitz posted:It can depend but usually 30 days starts from the formal entry of a judgment. But there are different kinds of judgment and sometimes the time starts when the judge rules from the bench, sometimes when the judgment is put into writing and signed, sometimes when the signed judgment is formally sent to the parties by the clerk, sometimes it’s 30 day and sometimes 60...ask your lawyer. Will do, thanks!
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 00:14
|
|
|
i had to hire a lawyer recently. I wasn’t surprised to learn that the popular lawyers delegate most of their work to assistants. Wasn’t surprised that some don’t do any of the work. But I was surprised to learn that some firms use the name and photos of a lawyer who’s been in full retirement for years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 02:51
|
|
|
euphronius posted:By the way I should be more clear It’s his aunt, I think, but he should definitely do that. Also, a simple POA is not expensive, so he’s not going to be taking bread out of anyone’s mouth to do it. (Client experience talking here.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 03:03
|
|
|
ChocNitty posted:i had to hire a lawyer recently. I wasn’t surprised to learn that the popular lawyers delegate most of their work to assistants. Wasn’t surprised that some don’t do any of the work. But I was surprised to learn that some firms use the name and photos of a lawyer who’s been in full retirement for years. Walt Disney and Colonel Sanders have been dead a long time, too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 04:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:09 |
|
|
ChocNitty posted:i had to hire a lawyer recently. I wasn’t surprised to learn that the popular lawyers delegate most of their work to assistants. Wasn’t surprised that some don’t do any of the work. But I was surprised to learn that some firms use the name and photos of a lawyer who’s been in full retirement for years. Common enough that it’s addressed in ethic / disciplinary rules
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:29
|
|