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EBB posted:Never forget that Sobel failed so hard at life he even screwed up shooting himself in the head. Sobel is buried in Chicago right across from my company’s old building in North Park. Apparently even his family hated him & he died alone like 10 years after his failed suicide attempt. It’s kind of a bummer.
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Dec 16, 2018 17:37
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EBB posted:Never forget that Sobel failed so hard at life he even screwed up shooting himself in the head. So not to be that guy but Ambrose's description of Sobel and his portrayal in the show is really shitastic for numerous reasons. I have no doubts the guy wasn't the best officer, but one of the biggest issues with Band of Brothers is that it's basically four or five ncos and Winters having a circlejerk about themselves and how much better at everything they were than everyone else. Notice how Winters and his NCOs seemingly make no mistakes or misteps whatsoever when they tell their story? Sobel obviously couldn't be interviewed when Ambrose wrote the book, but it's a bit of a contradiction to say Sobel being a hard officer and intense with training helped make the unit as tough as it was, but also he's terrible and lol oh btw, he's Jewish (antisemitism in the army during WW2 was a huge problem, especially in the combat arms.) Not to say that was the motivation behind the hate on sobel, but it certainly is worth keeping in mind. I'll dig it up later but there's a really good review on Amazon by Robert Foyzck who was an armor officer and now has a military history PhD and writes really good stuff for osprey, and he pretty much hits the nail on the head on how lovely that book was and dunks on Ambrose for not bothering to do even the most basic fact checking. You've also got Winters on record basically bad mouthing just about every other officer in that unit with the exception of Speirs and Nixon for the most part. Basically, Band of Brothers the show is a fun watch and I enjoy it, but the book is garbage and routinely mocked within the academic military history community for being a really poo poo oral history.
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Dec 16, 2018 17:56
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I remember loving it in middle school.
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Dec 16, 2018 18:07
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that time sobel got stuck in his leather pants and tried to use baby powder but it only made it worse lol
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Dec 16, 2018 18:12
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mods changed my name posted:that time sobel got stuck in his leather pants and tried to use baby powder but it only made it worse lol  Milo and POTUS posted:I remember loving it in middle school. Oh yeah for sure, it was probably my first grown up military history book and it got me into that field. I'll be the first to admit it's a fun read and whatnot, but I think my biggest gripe with it is people who read it and treat it like gospel without bothering to read or consider anything else. Here's that review I was talking about, https://www.amazon.com/review/R2PLPYMZPGJ5JQ
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Dec 16, 2018 18:16
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I thoroughly enjoyed BoB, but man The Pacific was good too....but it was really loving dark. Naturally.
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Dec 16, 2018 18:19
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Handsome Ralph posted:Oh yeah for sure, it was probably my first grown up military history book and it got me into that field. I'll be the first to admit it's a fun read and whatnot, but I think my biggest gripe with it is people who read it and treat it like gospel without bothering to read or consider anything else. Yeah thats fair and also true of pop history in general. I like people's a good deal but man I'd never cite it for anything
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Dec 16, 2018 18:21
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https://twitter.com/inthesedeserts/status/1074349929995354112?s=21
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Dec 16, 2018 18:32
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Handsome Ralph posted:
Not my field so take it with a grain of salt but, that review reads like a real axe grind. I'm wondering what reviews in JMH and MHQ look like by comparison. Not trying to defend known plagiarist Stephen Ambrose, but curious how he was viewed in the academic milhist field around the time of the publication of this book.
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Dec 16, 2018 18:32
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Handsome Ralph posted:Basically, Band of Brothers the show is a fun watch and I enjoy it, but the book is garbage and routinely mocked within the academic military history community for being a really poo poo oral history. I haven't read the book, but just from the TV series, I never got the impression that Sobel was a bad person as much as someone in over his head and doing the best that he knew how. He's not lazy or arrogant or malicious or anything, he just doesn't really know how to lead. David Schwimmer really helps sell it, he comes across as a guy with just enough self-awareness to know he's not cut out for it, and is terrified that he's going to get people killed because of it. It's really pretty sad.
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Dec 16, 2018 18:35
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Yeah to be honest, I have no clue what the academic milhist field thought at the time. Doubtful it was even given that much attention in that area since it was released as a pop history book first and foremost. As far as the guy having an axe to grind, hell if I know, but having read his other stuff, he just seems like the type who gets super pissy when bad milhist is popular. Wingnut Ninja posted:I haven't read the book, but just from the TV series, I never got the impression that Sobel was a bad person as much as someone in over his head and doing the best that he knew how. He's not lazy or arrogant or malicious or anything, he just doesn't really know how to lead. David Schwimmer really helps sell it, he comes across as a guy with just enough self-awareness to know he's not cut out for it, and is terrified that he's going to get people killed because of it. It's really pretty sad. Yeah I can agree with that take. Like I said, I enjoy the series and it's a fun watch, my gripe is with Ambrose and people who watch the show thinking it's gospel. Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 18:36
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Didn’t the dude admit to war crimes in an interview? It’s a catch 22. Either you believe him and prosecute or you don’t and you pull his security clearance for lying.
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Dec 16, 2018 18:54
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Is this the guy who admitted to everything doing the polygraph interview for a CIA job?
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Dec 16, 2018 18:56
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https://twitter.com/lisamcintire/status/1074349103516069888?s=21
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Dec 16, 2018 18:59
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It is the dude who admitted it during a CIA interview. Yeah maybe a man who straight up executed and buried a suspect shouldn't be in the DOD/Intel world/society/alive, idk
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Dec 16, 2018 18:59
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not caring here posted:Is this the guy who admitted to everything doing the polygraph interview for a CIA job? Yes.
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Dec 16, 2018 19:01
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I bet the guy doing the polygraph gave him the ol 'hmm yes i see you are being deceptive in some of your answers hmmmm yess...' and he spilled the beans cuz god drat he wanted that CIA job.
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Dec 16, 2018 19:14
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maffew buildings posted:It is the dude who admitted it during a CIA interview. Yeah maybe a man who straight up executed and buried a suspect shouldn't be in the DOD/Intel world/society/alive, idk people like this end up training our police forces lol
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Dec 16, 2018 19:20
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https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status/1074324949404450816?s=21
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Dec 16, 2018 19:20
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Sick he got that spray on hair 
sharknado slashfic fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 19:37
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Someone Photoshop a hot dog and drink in the pic on the right
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Dec 16, 2018 20:13
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Gauletier Chowdown.
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Dec 16, 2018 20:15
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So a couple of shower questions: 1) If Trump is removed from office, does he still get Secret Service protection? I think the answer is yes, but obviously we've never gone down this road before. 2) If Trump is convicted of a whole stack of charges by New York after he leaves office and gets sent to Sing Sing, does the Secret Service go with him?
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Dec 16, 2018 20:24
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McNally posted:So a couple of shower questions: https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/13/us/nixon-dropping-protection-by-secret-service.html 1. yes 2. who knows
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Dec 16, 2018 20:26
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I think we're in 'Here be Dragons' territory if he actually got removed instead of resigned, or if he actually got charged by a state after the fact.
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Dec 16, 2018 20:26
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I think Nixon only got secret service protection because he resigned BEFORE he was impeached. If he was impeached I think he would've been poo poo out of luck and told to get a taxi to the airport.
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Dec 16, 2018 20:28
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not caring here posted:I think Nixon only got secret service protection because he resigned BEFORE he was impeached. If he was impeached I think he would've been poo poo out of luck and told to get a taxi to the airport. There's a neat warriors-esque movie there.
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Dec 16, 2018 20:38
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I think he'd still get USSS detail because even if he is impeached he'd still be a target for kidnapping. The secret service wouldn't be there for him, it would be there to ensure ISIS doesn't snatch his rear end up because no matter what a former US president is still a hell of a bargaining chip
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Dec 16, 2018 20:42
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orange juche posted:Someone Photoshop a hot dog and drink in the pic on the right 
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Dec 16, 2018 20:42
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:I think he'd still get USSS detail because even if he is impeached he'd still be a target for kidnapping. The secret service wouldn't be there for him, it would be there to ensure ISIS doesn't snatch his rear end up because no matter what a former US president is still a hell of a bargaining chip I think he should be kept in some sort of building under 24/7 protection, with locks, and guards, and cameras. No one gets in unless it's better for them to be in there than outside, or they're some sort of security detail. Maybe a place with a route schedule to make sure said person wasn't doing anything to put himself in danger. I wonder what such a place could be called. 
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Dec 16, 2018 20:45
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https://twitter.com/rachelefish/status/1073681835916439553?s=21
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Dec 16, 2018 20:49
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Masterpiece
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Dec 16, 2018 21:15
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It's important to keep in mind that both trump and rudy were pissing and moaning about how "the FBI destroyed evidence"
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Dec 16, 2018 21:39
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:I think he'd still get USSS detail because even if he is impeached he'd still be a target for kidnapping. The secret service wouldn't be there for him, it would be there to ensure ISIS doesn't snatch his rear end up because no matter what a former US president is still a hell of a bargaining chip I wouldn’t trade a half eaten bag of chicharonnes for him in that scenario.
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Dec 16, 2018 21:41
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Richard Bong posted:Sobel is buried in Chicago right across from my company’s old building in North Park. Back in 2000-2001 my physics teacher in HS was named Sobel. He also looked a lot like Herbert Sobel and I regret that despite having read Band of Brothers a few times around that time I never made the connection and asked if he was related. This HS was in the Chicago suburbs so it could be possible. Handsome Ralph posted:I'll dig it up later but there's a really good review on Amazon by Robert Foyzck who was an armor officer and now has a military history PhD and writes really good stuff for osprey, and he pretty much hits the nail on the head on how lovely that book was and dunks on Ambrose for not bothering to do even the most basic fact checking. Like just taking their word that they were the first into Berchtesgaden mainly because it hadnt been looted to the ground yet. That part annoyed me because my grandfather in one of the few times he talked about the war talked about how he had been there as a part of the 3rd Infantry Division 7th Infantry regiment who were the first. Then they were forced to leave and the 101st moved in and decided they were the first, purely because it wasnt looted to hell and back. I can only assume that some of the stuff my grandfather brought back that I now own came from there. Theres a lot of stuff that dont seem like they would have come from any random dead German.
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Dec 16, 2018 21:51
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Just hope you don’t find a bag of teeth in gramps attic. It’s kind of a trope from The Thin Red Line and The Pacific but im sure there’s some accuracy to it.
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Dec 16, 2018 21:55
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LingcodKilla posted:Just hope you don’t find a bag of teeth in gramps attic. It’s kind of a trope from The Thin Red Line and The Pacific but im sure there’s some accuracy to it. I mean, with the price of gold being what it is these days, maybe kind of hope a little bit for a bag of teeth.
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Dec 16, 2018 21:59
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lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/a6p6cr/im_connor_karen_an_attorney_electroconvulsive/?st=JPRDJ7F0&sh=f376e607 Some lawyer chode ambulance chaser going after ECT (electroconvulsive shock therapy) started a failed AMA
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Dec 16, 2018 22:01
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LingcodKilla posted:Just hope you don’t find a bag of teeth in gramps attic. It’s kind of a trope from The Thin Red Line and The Pacific but im sure there’s some accuracy to it. Fortunately nothing like that but there is stuff I have no idea what to do with really, as its a tad problematic. I wouldnt want to just trash it, but at the same time the kind of people who would buy it arent the kind of people I would be comfortable doing so.
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Dec 16, 2018 22:02
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DurosKlav posted:Fortunately nothing like that but there is stuff I have no idea what to do with really, as its a tad problematic. I wouldnt want to just trash it, but at the same time the kind of people who would buy it arent the kind of people I would be comfortable doing so. post pics dude
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Dec 16, 2018 22:05
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