(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Typo posted:I think re-education centers are interesting since they focus on rehabilitation: "re-education" implies that once someone receives the proper education they can be re-integrated back into society wut
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Dec 16, 2018 22:10
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| # ? May 25, 2024 09:53 |
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Is China's Social Credit System as dystopian fascist and Black Mirrory as it is presented by Western media?
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Dec 16, 2018 22:12
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is China's Social Credit System as dystopian fascist and Black Mirrory as it is presented by Western media? Nah, they're just trying to turn China into Singapore. It's topian if anything.
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Dec 16, 2018 23:02
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^^^ goddammit Nah
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Dec 16, 2018 23:02
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is China's Social Credit System as dystopian fascist and Black Mirrory as it is presented by Western media? in true chinese fashion theres dozens of them and none them actually work, so uhh maybe one day
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Dec 16, 2018 23:09
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These responses confuse me. 
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Dec 17, 2018 00:09
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is China's Social Credit System as dystopian fascist and Black Mirrory as it is presented by Western media? its pretty much made up
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Dec 17, 2018 00:28
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Oh okay. I just saw this documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eViswN602_k
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Dec 17, 2018 00:45
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Typo posted:I think re-education centers are interesting since they focus on rehabilitation: "re-education" implies that once someone receives the proper education they can be re-integrated back into society MY DUDE DID SOMEONE SAY PRISON SLAVERY??? https://twitter.com/austinramzy/status/1074360997027110912 punk rebel ecks posted:These responses confuse me. it's fake news stirred up by the lying media, the chinese government would never abuse the ability to monitor every transaction ever made by its citizens. oops looks like you listened to a hip hop song on your phone, -50 CitizenPoints™, hope you weren't planning on getting a passport ever Fallen Hamprince has issued a correction as of 01:30 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 01:24
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Fallen Hamprince posted:it's fake news stirred up by the lying media, the chinese government would never abuse the ability to monitor every transaction ever made by its citizens. oops looks like you listened to a hip hop song on your phone, -50 CitizenPoints™, hope you weren't planning on getting a passport ever I think your post is being serious?
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Dec 17, 2018 02:59
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pretty cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T75U2FhLm0
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Dec 17, 2018 05:44
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Fallen Hamprince posted:MY DUDE DID SOMEONE SAY PRISON SLAVERY??? Begone liberal
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Dec 17, 2018 05:48
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It's possible to conceive of an end to the camps in Xinjiang because they have a particular political mission that will end with success or failure. It's impossible to conceive of an end to an American carceral state, because its mission is moralistic. American prison camps exist to punish criminals and make it as difficult as possible for them to ever rehabilitate because they're bad people (captive labor). The mission never ends, because there will always be crime & punishment.
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Dec 17, 2018 05:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's possible to conceive of an end to the camps in Xinjiang because they have a particular political mission that will end with success or failure. It's impossible to conceive of an end to an American carceral state, because its mission is moralistic. American prison camps exist to punish criminals and make it as difficult as possible for them to ever rehabilitate because they're bad people (captive labor). The mission never ends, because there will always be crime & punishment. What is the point of the camps, my friend
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Dec 17, 2018 06:05
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The US prison-industrial complex is Real Bad, but last time I checked the American security services weren't rounding up citizens en masse solely for practicing a particular religion and throwing them in camps with absolutely no legal due process or route of appeal against their incarceration*, and in most cases no indication when (if ever) they'll be released. Both sides are bad but one is unarguably worse here, come on. * to head the argument off, yes I am aware that the American legal system has a high rate of conviction against minorities and often provides them poor legal representation. Show me one Uighur who has successfully appealed their incarceration in the camps via the Chinese courts and been released. Just one. Edit: Also hearty LOL if you think that the Chinese state is spending billions on the infrastructure to build these camps, only to some day declare "mission accomplished!/failed!" and tear them down, instead of creating its own self-sustaining prison-industrial complex. The NYT article linked above shows it's already begun. Porfiriato has issued a correction as of 06:24 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 06:20
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:What is the point of the camps, my friend The CCP is trying to hamfistedly repress the currents of reactionary political Islam and Panturkic nationalism that have caused so many Uighur terrorist attacks over the years, but the camps are only making the problem worse. People who claim that they're just rounding up people for practicing a religion are mischaracterizing the problem. They're not setting up camps for Hui because the problem being faced by the CCP is fundamentally a nationalist one, not religious. "Rounding up citizens en masse solely for practicing a particular religion and throwing them in camps" is a hoot coming from leftists anyway, because some religions are objectively bad. If you wouldn't put kid-diddling bigamist Mormon fundamentalists into re-education then you're basically a liberal.
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Dec 17, 2018 06:37
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Acting as if the United States at least has due process is also a loving hoot, because the due process is that you rot in jail if you can't make bail during the lengthy procedure of going to trial.
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Dec 17, 2018 06:39
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I was actually just curious
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Dec 17, 2018 07:09
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only one murder state at a time bitches!
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Dec 17, 2018 07:10
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Tankie: Actually, rounding up entire classes of people for indefinite detention based largely on their religion is a good idea, just flawed execution Also tankie: The US bail process is rigged, therefore the American system is even worse!! *quietly sidesteps the fact that the camp detainees aren't even granted bail hearings, let alone criminal trials* And LOL once again if you think the Hui aren't a couple more protests about mosque demolitions away from joining China's gulag archipelago. Porfiriato has issued a correction as of 07:18 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 07:10
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Known Lecher posted:The US prison-industrial complex is Real Bad, but last time I checked the American security services weren't rounding up citizens en masse solely for practicing a particular religion and throwing them in camps with absolutely no legal due process or route of appeal against their incarceration*, and in most cases no indication when (if ever) they'll be released. you're right "immigrant" isn't a religion
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Dec 17, 2018 07:17
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I think you have "America" confused with "Australia", might want to turn your map right-side up.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:23
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Known Lecher posted:I think you have "America" confused with "Australia", might want to turn your map right-side up. you're right for pointing out that america can't be bad
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Dec 17, 2018 07:24
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some people itt have talked themselves so deep down the anti-liberalism rabbit hole that they'be become mirror versions of their chud dads, except instead of yelling about how obamacare is socialism they've convinced themselves that it's Liberalism to think concentration camps are inherently bad
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Dec 17, 2018 07:25
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Known Lecher posted:Tankie: Actually, rounding up entire classes of people for indefinite detention based largely on their religion is a good idea, just flawed execution Known Lecher posted:I think you have "America" confused with "Australia", might want to turn your map right-side up. lmao
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Dec 17, 2018 07:26
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Bip Roberts posted:you're right for pointing out that america can't be bad Known Lecher posted:Both sides are bad but one is unarguably worse here, come on.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:26
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Referring to the Chinese camps as a gulag archipelago is interesting, because the Soviet gulag system did end. They were also exploiting prisoners for forced labor as well, but the system was still overturned because it had exhausted its political purpose. Meanwhile prisoners have been cultivating cotton on the grounds of Angola since it was originally a plantation.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Acting as if the United States at least has due process is also a loving hoot, because the due process is that you rot in jail if you can't make bail during the lengthy procedure of going to trial. In the US due process only applies to whites which are around 65-70% of the population, in China due process applies to ethnic Chinese which are >90% of the population, hence due process under Socialism is mathematically superior to (lack of) due process under capitalism
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Dec 17, 2018 07:32
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Typo posted:In the US due process only applies to whites which are around 65-70% of the population, in China due process applies to ethnic Chinese which are >90% of the population, hence due process under Socialism is mathematically superior to (lack of) due process under capitalism lol "Due process" is an incredibly loaded term anyway, because the process due to anyone under any legal system is ultimately determined by the dominant class power and its interests. That's why the American system is set up to punish poor people as hard as possible while only being a minor inconvenience to white collar crime.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:34
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The same class dominants both countries, hth
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Dec 17, 2018 07:36
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the best think is that kropoopkin has admitted that the 're-education camp' policy is self defeating and will only make radicalism more popular, but apparently thinks that when this becomes happens the politburo will decide that the perceived threat they have spent untold billions suppressing isn't really worth dealing with anymore. the party leadership was willing to kill literally thousands of its own citizens in the streets of the capital in 1989, theyre not gonna think much about liquidating some 'terrorists' in a frontier province that's basically an open-air prison already
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Dec 17, 2018 07:37
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"genocide is okay because it'll come to an end"
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Dec 17, 2018 07:37
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:lol yeah, at least under Chinese Socialism there's honesty since it is quite open that you are being imprisoned for being Muslim, whereas in the US the system use propaganda to convince the masses that the system isn't racist. Plus you are released from from Chinese re-education once you learn to lean away from false, reactionary, anti-dialectic ideology and embrace an ideology which belongs in the 21st century. In the US the "left-wing" party will keep you in prison longer just to benefit from your slave labor.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:38
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The gulag system did wind down, but only after 30-40 years and a few million deaths. If we're comparing to China neither one of those figures is exactly heartening considering the Xinjiang camp system is just getting started.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:38
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Known Lecher posted:The gulag system did wind down, but only after 30-40 years and a few million deaths. If we're comparing to China neither one of those figures is exactly heartening considering the Xinjiang camp system is just getting started. Fewer than a few million died in the gulags, the gulag system itself only really lasted 20 years or so before Khrushchev dismantled them
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Dec 17, 2018 07:39
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Bip Roberts posted:"genocide is okay because it'll come to an end" another million billion dead due to Karl Marx's invention communism
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Dec 17, 2018 07:40
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Bip Roberts posted:"genocide is okay because it'll come to an end" Your honour, from a utilitarian perspective my finite number of murders caused far less suffering than the potentially infinite amount of suffering that would have befallen my victims and their hypothetical descendants, had I not killed them. You therefore have no choice but to admit that I am a very good person.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:40
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Typo posted:Fewer than a few million died in the gulags, the gulag system itself only really lasted 20 years or so before Khrushchev dismantled them Soviet archives themselves officially document a bit over a million deaths, I guess the difference between "a million" and "a few million" dead feels a bit like semantics 
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Dec 17, 2018 07:43
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:another million billion dead due to Karl Marx's invention communism this is directly analogous to how neo-nazis mock the estimates of the number of people killed in the Holocaust
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Dec 17, 2018 07:44
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| # ? May 25, 2024 09:53 |
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Known Lecher posted:Soviet archives themselves officially document a bit over a million deaths, I guess the difference between "a million" and "a few million" dead feels a bit like semantics if you take a serious look at the world: how many dies from capitalism: lack of basic healthcare, starvation, imperialist wars, you'll realize that capitalism kills more in a month than Socialist concentration camps in west China would in 10 years capitalism kills a million people every 6 month and there's only 10 million uighurs, very few of whom actually die in re-education camps
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Dec 17, 2018 07:45
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