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Moola posted:I kind of hate any moba that strictly adheres to the original wc3 dota like it's some holy sacred text he asked why items over talents. league got it from dota and dota got it from wc3.
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Dec 16, 2018 23:00
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yes
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Dec 16, 2018 23:15
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:So is there any reason to have talents instead of items? Because I tried playing hots, might have been battle rite, and it was just unnecessarily confusing. I wasn't being funny, before I downloaded HOTS I tried a moba but I don't remember which one it was. The items in addition to all the other poo poo you had to absorb drove me off. HOTS talents are much superior. *I never watch eSports and play HOTS against other people like one day a week so I'm not gonna save the game, maybe items are better for the hardcore MOBA nerders, I dunno. doverhog fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 23:20
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Yea that’s part of the problem with MOBAs. DOTA has all the quirks baked into the engine and League streamlined it just enough that it is slightly less of a burden of knowledge. Since I’ve played League a whole lot I can kinda talk more about it. Having a ton of items in theory gives you a lot of options to counter whatever the other team is doing in game as opposed to mostly just hero picks at the beginning of the game in HOTS. I can see it both ways, in the end having talent options are just items at a character level. HOTS just doesn’t have a strong enough design team to give each character multiple good build paths. And your stuck with a talent when you pick it so good luck needing a different talent later on you didn’t have the foresight of 15 minutes into the future to know you’d need.
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Dec 17, 2018 00:15
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Also some talents straight up suck rear end, or there's one talent that's just too good not to pick Same with some ultimate "choices"
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Dec 17, 2018 00:22
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As an old man who has a dead dying idiot brain: MOBA's with items scare me because there are very many of them and they are very important. I dislike this and am very upset that dad-moba is dead. e: everyone seems very angry in MOBA's
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Dec 17, 2018 01:22
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Page 666 death to this game also blizzard
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Dec 17, 2018 02:20
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Rexicon1 posted:As an old man who has a dead dying idiot brain: MOBA's with items scare me because there are very many of them and they are very important. I dislike this and am very upset that dad-moba is dead. I played a bit of Dotes 2 and I got yelled at a lot by angry Russians and don't know why I'm sorry angry Russians 
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Dec 17, 2018 02:23
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Rexicon1 posted:e: everyone seems very angry in MOBA's This is a function less of MOBAs themselves and more a function of any highly competitive team-based game. MOBAs are just some of the most high profile team games on the market so they are famously toxic, but 14 year olds have been screaming racial slurs at you since team deathmatch FPS games became a thing. I'm always kind of amused when people are like WOW OVERWATCH IS SOOOO TOXIC and I'm like "man, I remember having morons call me a human being all the time back in Unreal Tournament '99". People on the internet are loving awful.
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Dec 17, 2018 02:28
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doverhog posted:So is there any reason to have items instead of talents? Because I tried playing lol, might've been dota, and it was just unnecessarily confusing. One obvious difference is that items are purchasable by any hero.
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Dec 17, 2018 02:33
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As someone who played UT99 q3 Cs TFC etc I think toxicity is way worse now, but maybe I was just better at ignoring it back then
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Dec 17, 2018 02:34
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Moola posted:As someone who played UT99 q3 Cs TFC etc I think toxicity is way worse now, but maybe I was just better at ignoring it back then It's definitely a lot more mainstream and easy to notice because games are so much bigger and more popular now, we have interconnected platforms that allow angry shitposting even after the game is over, streaming is a thing, etc. But I don't believe that your average raging shitmonster is any worse now than they were 20 years ago besides having a much larger platform to vocalize their verbal diarrhea on.
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Dec 17, 2018 02:38
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Moola posted:As someone who played UT99 q3 Cs TFC etc I think toxicity is way worse now, but maybe I was just better at ignoring it back then Nah I played all that poo poo and it's way worse now and the increased popularity of role based team games doesn't help imo.
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Dec 17, 2018 02:38
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Moola posted:As someone who played UT99 q3 Cs TFC etc I think toxicity is way worse now, but maybe I was just better at ignoring it back then I think the big difference between now and then is the existence of auto matchmaking vs. dedicated player-run servers. Actual human admins could ban shitheads and you could find decent communities with non-toxic players instead of an endless parade of people you'll probably never meet again and nobody to moderate them. Of course lots of people sucked back then too and those kind of servers had their own problems. I think modern matchmaking is better for balancing teams and finding opponents of a similar skill level than it was back in the day, but I do miss those old hangouts.
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Dec 17, 2018 03:04
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God I miss UT99. Netreach CTF-Face 24/7 server was my home away from home. That and instagib servers.
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Dec 17, 2018 04:15
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Kanos posted:This is a function less of MOBAs themselves and more a function of any highly competitive team-based game. MOBAs are just some of the most high profile team games on the market so they are famously toxic, but 14 year olds have been screaming racial slurs at you since team deathmatch FPS games became a thing. Part of it in the case of games like LoL is that matches can run anywhere from 30+ minutes to an hour long, so there's a lot of time for people to get really pissed at each other while stuck in a virtual elevator together.
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Dec 17, 2018 04:17
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Kai Tave posted:Part of it in the case of games like LoL is that matches can run anywhere from 30+ minutes to an hour long, so there's a lot of time for people to get really pissed at each other while stuck in a virtual elevator together.
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Dec 17, 2018 09:27
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doverhog posted:So is there any reason to have items instead of talents? Because I tried playing lol, might've been dota, and it was just unnecessarily confusing. Gold getting converted into items creates a secondary resource in addition to XP, that also affects the power level of characters and causes significant power spikes. A character that just ends up jungling (killing all the stuff inbetween lanes) a lot has a lot more gold, but maybe comparable experience to someone that is just hanging out in a duo lane against another duo lane, depending on how the lane goes in regards to last hits/denies. So even if they are the same level, they are still more powerful than a comparable character that hangs out in lane, since they've been fed more gold as a result of their unopposed solo farming. It also allows for more significant adjustments of your build in response to the enemy team make-up since the item cost in comparison to its effect allows for more levers of balance than just that character maybe picking up a super overpowered ability at level 13 and the developers then having to shuffle that talent around or nerf it into mediocrity. A higher level support isn't necessarily going to be super tough to kill in DOTA, even if you're underlevelled in comparison, because they don't really have many significant or powerful items that help them in a fight since they spend all the gold that they do get on stuff that supports their team, like wards, temporary stealth abilities, consumable heals, et cetera. As an example of the item effects that can be included, but would be stupid as a talent a character always gets, DOTA 2 has the Black King Bar. It is a powerful item that makes a character immune to most abilities and their effects for a limited amount of time (they still take damage from most auto-attacks), but since it's pretty expensive the question is more about whether it's something your character wants early, before other essentials, or late while trying to wing it in the meantime. Sometimes you don't want it all depending on what abilities and priorities the enemy team has. And that in itself creates scenarios that can decide the game. Teams have to play around items and their availability as much as they have to play around abilities and talents. Items just makes it a vastly different game in regards to how they have to and can balance it. It doesn't really get interesting until you're super familiar with all this poo poo and the first few hours it loving sucks rear end, though. It's a goddamn, poorly formatted, nonsensical wall of text and if you haven't studied it properly it bites people in the arse because they spent too long staring at the shop window when something important was happening. Especially in DOTA 2. Dunno whether League has a cleaner interface or better tooltips and stuff. I am sometimes baffled at the existence and popularity of this genre. Zwiebel fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 15:18
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Heroes of the Storm x.x: Everyone is very mad
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Dec 17, 2018 16:08
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Dota 2's had an in-game little drop-down menu with concise, well made guides with item builds, skill order etc. forever now, it's been ahead of the game for ages and saved you the time of hoping some site has current or even good info.Zwiebel posted:A higher level support isn't necessarily going to be super tough to kill in DOTA, even if you're underlevelled in comparison, because they don't really have many significant or powerful items that help them in a fight since they spend all the gold that they do get on stuff that supports their team, like wards, temporary stealth abilities, consumable heals, et cetera. And then you get the support who made Dagon, pops everything and promptly zaps your rear end off. Dota 2 has by far the potentially strongest supports of any of these games, hell Lich's pretty much babby's first megakill playmaker.
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Dec 17, 2018 16:25
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Tried stepping out of my comfort zone to avoid burn out and I tried out Dahaka recently and have been really enjoying what he can do and his resilience in a team fight. It’s a nice change of pace to the regular tank/bruiser tactics of waddle up and get shot in the face until you can close. Exploding out of bushes to terrorize squishes will never not get old. Taking the Enhanced Agility talent just makes you a huge jerk who can chase enemy heroes down like when Jason hunts down unfortunate camp counselors. Using your Brushstalker ability to come out ahead of a fleeing hero and finish them off is also a great feeling. All his ducking and HoT means you can weave your way in and out of a team fight and be back to disrupt enemy lines in no time. Ult choice is almost always Isolation so far. By far tricker to use because of the skill shot and short range I find it much more effective in a team fight. I tried Adaptation but I never seems to really pay off as you just get focused down before the heal kicks off. I’m sad that this game is getting put on life support. It has so many good things going for it, but since it’s not making ALL the money Activision is going to starve it off. With heroes like Dehaka it just makes me sad to think of what the team could have come up with later on.
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Dec 17, 2018 16:26
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Maybe when WC3 reforged comes back we can all go back to playing good games like Enfos.
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Dec 17, 2018 16:29
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Page 666 and not a single Diablo posted. Shameful
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Dec 17, 2018 17:15
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Kith posted:Page 666 and not a single Diablo posted. Shameful 
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Dec 17, 2018 17:21
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If you’re going to post Diablo from Nexomania, at least post the one with the chest tattoo like Danny Trejo.
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Dec 17, 2018 17:23
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I'm cracking up at all the "actually, this is good for the game" posts on the hots subreddit. quote:I'm not too upset about this. This amount of content they were releasing the last couple years was dizzying. You would finally get used to the game in certain state then, bam!, a new hero, map or event is released. People were so used to a new hero being released we took it for granted. quote:I agree with you. I think it's unfortunate that we are a small minority in a sea of baby rage "gamerz". I think that balancing for the pro scene was a BIG constraint on the state of the game for us at home players, and when you are compromising between several versions of the same game, you are much more limited in what you can do. I'm personally not sad to see the pro scene go (I realize that it is very sad for all the pro players, people who invested significant amounts of time, etc and I'm not downplaying that fact.) IMO the game could be better without a pro scene. That being said, a lot of people believe that a game cannot exist without a big esports scene, and maybe they're right. I guess I'm just the old guy who plays games more than he watches them.... quote:If the unnecessary updates slow down and we get like 1 per month, or 1 in between each ranked season then maybe the game can actually be in a balanced state and players can master the game and play the game they like. Otherwise your engagement with the game is constantly getting reset because "lul i need new heroes to be interested, feed me new content plox".
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Dec 17, 2018 18:13
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if I see the word "dizzying" I always know to ignore the rest of the post
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Dec 17, 2018 18:53
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New content is actually bad because my brain is slow and new things scare me
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Dec 17, 2018 19:03
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Moola posted:New content is actually bad because my brain is slow and new things scare me same. Don't want to learn anything at this point, I'm 30+
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Dec 17, 2018 19:08
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okay so you see, the thing about the rate of profit is that it has a tendency to fall over time
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Dec 17, 2018 19:45
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*creates a new character that is not from a previous blizzard game* *game instantly dies*
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Dec 17, 2018 19:56
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Heroes of the Storm never died while Metzen was around. Makes you think.
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Dec 17, 2018 19:56
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Zwiebel posted:Like, they did that entire talent gating garbage where they restricted new players builds to what was basically a guide, but it was trash and it just made new players weaker. I don't really think talent gating as an idea is inherently bad, but what made it bad in hots was that, like everything, they're loving morons. They just randomly assigned the slots when they made talents so you had heroes where they had talent tiers with no good choices before unlocking the talent gate. They could have easily designed around it by making the bottom 2 talents situational ones that you might take based on team comp, and the top two all-around good choices that were never bad choices.
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Dec 17, 2018 20:01
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pyromance posted:I don't really think talent gating as an idea is inherently bad, but what made it bad in hots was that, like everything, they're loving morons. They just randomly assigned the slots when they made talents so you had heroes where they had talent tiers with no good choices before unlocking the talent gate. They could have easily designed around it by making the bottom 2 talents situational ones that you might take based on team comp, and the top two all-around good choices that were never bad choices. The best was when the good ult choice was the one locked behind the gate
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Dec 17, 2018 20:23
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I played this game on and off putting over 2500 hours into it over the past few years. For a while my attention had been slipping. Now I'm officially done. Seems like a good time to jump ship. HGC was a lot of enjoyment for me. I spent a few hundred bucks on this game. RIP HotS. Gonna go play overwatch lol.
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Dec 17, 2018 21:04
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I came from DOTA to HotS and now I've installed LoL. I've gone for the holy loving trinity.
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Dec 17, 2018 21:16
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Alizee posted:I spent a few hundred bucks on this game. yikes.
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Dec 17, 2018 21:26
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I've played this game for like, 5 years? and I don't think I spent anything on it It's me, I killed HoTs I'm sorry everyone
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Dec 17, 2018 21:39
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Moola posted:I've played this game for like, 5 years? its your fault we don't have more kerrigan skins!!
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Dec 17, 2018 21:54
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HOTS 2.0 was amazing for F2P players. Before I had to deal with no skins and pleb horse, now I have hundreds of skins and mounts and 10 announcers and 15,000 shards for free. It boggles my mind that people spend hundreds of dollars on this game because having 10 skins for every character isn’t enough, they need 11.
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Dec 17, 2018 22:30
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