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I'm pretty sure even JMS approved of ending the Spider-marriage, though he disagreed with how they were doing it. I've heard that his suggested idea wasn't much better, though I don't remember what it was - fwiw, I don't think it was Peter walking out on MJ and then continuing across America. Peter growing up, getting married, joining the Avengers, becoming less of a lone wolf and eventually (probably years in the future) taking over from Cap as de facto leader of the Marvel superheroes would be a cool arc for him.
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Dec 17, 2018 16:32
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Wheat Loaf posted:I'm pretty sure even JMS approved of ending the Spider-marriage, though he disagreed with how they were doing it. I've heard that his suggested idea wasn't much better, though I don't remember what it was - fwiw, I don't think it was Peter walking out on MJ and then continuing across America. I don't think anybody would tell you the way it was done was good. I'm not really pro or against the marriage, I'm for whatever makes a good story regardless. I was not a fan of a lot of the stuff JMS was doing on the title at the time with The Other and the Spider Totem stuff and I did enjoy a lot of the stuff from Brand New Day so I took the marriage ending as a plus in the short term at least. That being said the way they did it was terrible. I know I'm far in the majority in that I liked a lot of what came after, including Superior (though it went on too long) and Horizon/Parker Industries Peter. But even though I liked that I'm happy to be back at broke rear end Peter and I'm happy that MJ is back in the picture. It just feels like time.
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Dec 17, 2018 17:13
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Blockhouse posted:the other problem is 99% of the time when the book looked at Peter and MJ's marriage it wasn't like...good. MJ takes up smoking! MJ is stalked (twice)! MJ considers cheating on Peter with one of her fellow actors but doesn't! Yeah.
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Dec 17, 2018 17:46
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I think that in 2018/2019, if Peter's supposed to be in his mid-late 20s or early 30s, an "everyman" arc shouldn't have to and shouldn't have to want to culminate in marriage and kids. That narrative, while tidy, I think increasingly doesn't speak to the goals and lives of people who are Peter's vague age, especially among people with the contingent elements that his life has-- freelancer (I think still?), weird hours, all-consuming hobby, dependent older relative, living in a very expensive city. I got married at 28, which would have felt extremely late in my parents' day, but among my friends and age-proximate colleagues was pretty early. It's just not as ubiquitous a marker of "growing up," ditto having kids-- among married people my age that I can think of, only three have kids, and those were the only three that ever had any intention of having kids. I like Peter and MJ together but I'm fine with them not being married. I think on a narrative level it keeps his status quo more flexible and leaves more wiggle room for the flow of incoming writers, and as I said above I don't think that using it as a device to ground him or indicate his maturity is as viable as it perhaps used to be. For someone with his lifestyle and background, superhero or not, being a bachelor with a somewhat provisional financial situation is frankly the most realistic option. Edit: Without spoiling much, I think the Spider-Verse movie handles this perfectly, albeit with a PP slightly older I felt than the de facto characterization in the comics: I can't imagine dating let alone being married to somebody with his life without going crazy. I don't think expecting a long-term romantic relationship that follows normative rules is fair or even possible in a setting where superheroes are routinely expected to do the things that superheroes do. In my mind Peter and MJ love each other a lot and trust each other more than anyone else in the world but recognize that keeping things somewhat loose is better for both of them. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 18:18
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Wheat Loaf posted:Peter growing up, getting married, joining the Avengers, becoming less of a lone wolf and eventually (probably years in the future) taking over from Cap as de facto leader of the Marvel superheroes would be a cool arc for him. That sounds great, but we aren't going to see anything of the sort. Or at least it won't last and will be eventually undone. It's a problem caused by the desire to keep popular characters in circulation with their most "iconic" status quo within mainstream comic books, even if they might occasionally be allowed to temporarily change or even have a proper ending in certain movie adaptations and other media. Marvel isn't the only company that does this, of course, but their treatment of Spider-Man is probably the example that stings the most. In a perfect world, characters would be allowed to retire and generational storytelling would keep the brand around while changing the cast. Which isn't going to happen, or certainly not on a permanent basis. Honestly, I think things could at least work better if continuity was thrown out the window and every new writer was allowed to tell their own mini-biography, beginning and ending included, rather than trying to pretend the same character has lived through decades of adventures that only add up to nine years or whatever number is considered acceptable in order to avoid aging. wielder fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 18:24
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I mean people focused on the MJ subplots not being good but in the 90s the main plots kind of sucked too. I mean you have venom and then ???
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Dec 17, 2018 20:19
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Archyduchess posted:I think that in 2018/2019, if Peter's supposed to be in his mid-late 20s or early 30s, an "everyman" arc shouldn't have to and shouldn't have to want to culminate in marriage and kids. That narrative, while tidy, I think increasingly doesn't speak to the goals and lives of people who are Peter's vague age, especially among people with the contingent elements that his life has-- freelancer (I think still?), weird hours, all-consuming hobby, dependent older relative, living in a very expensive city. I got married at 28, which would have felt extremely late in my parents' day, but among my friends and age-proximate colleagues was pretty early. It's just not as ubiquitous a marker of "growing up," ditto having kids-- among married people my age that I can think of, only three have kids, and those were the only three that ever had any intention of having kids. Yeah I agree that "Spider-Man must grow up and the only way he can is by having a steady important job, a wife, and kids" is mostly the result of people being fixated on a societal construct of adulthood and success that is rapidly becoming out-of-date
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Dec 17, 2018 20:31
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I don’t think having a steady job is gonna go out of date. Hopefully.
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Dec 17, 2018 20:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t think having a steady job is gonna go out of date. Hopefully.
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Dec 17, 2018 20:47
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I mean, living in Manhattan on a shoestring as a freelance photographer already did.
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Dec 17, 2018 20:48
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Wanderer posted:I mean, living in Manhattan on a shoestring as a freelance photographer already did. It's interesting how they've tried course-correcting Spidey in the past. Heck, just after Inferno (I think) Pete and MJ used to have a spacious apartment on the Upper West Side and then were unceremoniously kicked out and had to go live with Aunt May for a while until Harry took pity on them and let them live in his building. Partly due to aforementioned stalker who was rich as well as a creep. "Spidey's too successful! Reverse it!"
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Dec 17, 2018 23:26
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Dawgstar posted:It's interesting how they've tried course-correcting Spidey in the past. Heck, just after Inferno (I think) Pete and MJ used to have a spacious apartment on the Upper West Side and then were unceremoniously kicked out and had to go live with Aunt May for a while until Harry took pity on them and let them live in his building. Partly due to aforementioned stalker who was rich as well as a creep. "Spidey's too successful! Reverse it!" Peter has been stuck in the same cycle for the last 40 years.
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Dec 17, 2018 23:55
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t think having a steady job is gonna go out of date. Hopefully. I'm afraid you may be hoping for too much there.
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Dec 18, 2018 00:27
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Under full gay communism 40+hr/week jobs will be abolished And as much as I "understand" Pete is supposed to be some early thirties person, and we have gotten the poo poo end of the stick, I have a hard time conceptualizing him as a millennial like me since he's been around since the 60s. He just has way too much history and baggage to acknowledge him as my contemporary like that
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Dec 18, 2018 01:05
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Well don't worry, pretty soon he'll be the same age, just your junior instead of contemporary.
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Dec 18, 2018 01:08
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These young whipper snappers out here slinging those webs like a bunch of hop heads. Back in my day we just succumbed to nihilism on Twitter. Why don't they just get a job!! shakes cane angrily
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Dec 18, 2018 01:18
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wielder posted:That sounds great, but we aren't going to see anything of the sort. Or at least it won't last and will be eventually undone. Sure, I mean it hypothetically, if comics went in for not doing any retcons or resets and just kept moving forward all the time.
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Dec 18, 2018 01:24
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X-O posted:Well don't worry, pretty soon he'll be the same age, just your junior instead of contemporary. It was a sad day when I was older than Bruce Wayne
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Dec 18, 2018 01:26
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Beerdeer posted:It was a sad day when I was older than Bruce Wayne Hello Frank Miller
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Dec 18, 2018 01:28
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We'll always have Vandal Savage.
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Dec 18, 2018 02:01
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I'm sure the sliding timescale will save us all.
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Dec 18, 2018 02:43
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TwoPair posted:I'm sure the sliding timescale will save us all. The sliding timescale will doom us all. Should there ever threaten lasting world peace, Disney will tip the scale in favor of a war for Tony Stark and Flash Thomson to have served in in the comics that come out 20 years later.
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Dec 18, 2018 03:10
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Time is fleeting but our shitposts are forever
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Dec 18, 2018 03:48
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It was a sad day when I realized I was older than Wolverine. Though I also was pretty impressed.
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Dec 18, 2018 04:15
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Dang you're like 160 years old? Congrats whats your secret
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Dec 18, 2018 04:18
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site posted:Dang you're like 160 years old? Congrats whats your secret Why, Hostess Fruit Pies, of course!
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Dec 18, 2018 04:22
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i like getting cap and punisher on the same day e: shuri too site fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 21:23
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Somebody at Marvel needs to fired over the fact that Miguel's only appearance in Spider-Geddon was a multiple-character splash page in the last issue. Also, for looking like it would be a culling of the spider-characters in Marvel, the only deaths I can think of are Noir and UK, and they happened at the very beginning. This whole story was a waste. Silk was one of the central characters of the last Spider-Verse, and I think she said, maybe, two things at most this time around.
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Dec 19, 2018 23:11
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El Tortuga posted:This whole story was a waste. It was a good event to show that Otto is cool and good and also smart that's why he saved the day.
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Dec 19, 2018 23:42
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El Tortuga posted:Somebody at Marvel needs to fired over the fact that Miguel's only appearance in Spider-Geddon was a multiple-character splash page in the last issue. So, I wound up buying the Spider-Girls miniseries (I wanted to support Houser/RYV, OK?) and actually quite enjoyed it (probably because it seemed to primarily avoiding the Inheritors plot and focusing on their interpersonal interaction). Out of curiosity, was there anything related to RYV/Spider-Girl in Spider-Geddon #5 to go on? I mean, I'm not going to read it, but still, I'm curious. Also I guess that (very minor Into The Spider-Verse spoilers) Miguel might have been too busy in a pointing match with Spider-Man '67 to get involved with Spider-Geddon. Yvonmukluk fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 23:51
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Actually speaking of spider-girls was whatever series mayday was originally in (spider-woman, spider-girl??) any good? Kinda curious as to whether i should go back and check that out
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Dec 19, 2018 23:57
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site posted:Actually speaking of spider-girls was whatever series mayday was originally in (spider-woman, spider-girl??) any good? Kinda curious as to whether i should go back and check that out It has its fans but it really depends on how your tolerance for DeFalco is. Mine is zero but I see what it is that he offers to people who like his schtick.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:04
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Archyduchess posted:It has its fans but it really depends on how your tolerance for DeFalco is. Mine is zero but I see what it is that he offers to people who like his schtick.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:07
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, speaking as probably the biggest Spider-Girl fan in BSS, that's true. Maybe give it a try and see what you think, it's on Unlimited now. Take it from two separate Lotties-- Spider-Girl may or may not be good. FWIW I think of the DeFalco I've read the M2 stuff is the best. It's super clearly a passion project and while his approach to continuity isn't my favorite there's a palpable glee to his deep dives that can be infectious.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:09
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Archyduchess posted:Take it from two separate Lotties-- Spider-Girl may or may not be good. Now I want to see the Amazing Spider-Lottie.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:11
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Archyduchess posted:It has its fans but it really depends on how your tolerance for DeFalco is. Mine is zero but I see what it is that he offers to people who like his schtick. There was only one issue I could say I truly liked, and come to find out it was a fill in by Sean McKeever who I believe has since fled the comics industry to the greener(?) pastures of writing video games. It didn't rely on the second-person narration like DeFalco did.
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Dec 20, 2018 00:37
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so like whats the point of spidergeddon, get rid of the expanded spiderverse cast that you have a huge movie for right now is that the point Marvel?
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Dec 20, 2018 00:37
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Synthbuttrange posted:so like whats the point of spidergeddon, get rid of the expanded spiderverse cast
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Dec 20, 2018 01:18
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Yvonmukluk posted:So, I wound up buying the Spider-Girls miniseries (I wanted to support Houser/RYV, OK?) and actually quite enjoyed it (probably because it seemed to primarily avoiding the Inheritors plot and focusing on their interpersonal interaction). I'd love to see a Spider-Girls ongoing. I enjoyed the dynamic between Mayday and Anime.
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Dec 20, 2018 02:19
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Synthbuttrange posted:so like whats the point of spidergeddon, get rid of the expanded spiderverse cast Pretty sure it was just to do another Spider-Verse event at the same time that there was a Spider-Verse movie coming out, and they couldn't just do Spider-Verse 2 for a name right? (Well, they could, but after Civil War 2, people might be wary of Marvel events with a 2 in the name...) All in all I feel like it was a decent little event, if only because it had the characters do something besides get owned constantly and have a bunch of spiders cameo as corpses. Kinda surprised they're going to have Doc Ock be Superior Spider-Man again and just totally give up that Superior Octopus schtick he was trying to start up. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 02:22
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