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booseek posted:How plausible is this? trump is an isolationist, it's literally his one feature that made him stand out in the republican primary that wasn't 'this guy may be medically demented'. There's no conspiracy other than this is probably him setting up to do the same in Afghanistan in 2020 by declaring 'victory' there too.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:07
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sexpig by night posted:trump is an isolationist, it's literally his one feature that made him stand out in the republican primary that wasn't 'this guy may be medically demented'. There's no conspiracy other than this is probably him setting up to do the same in Afghanistan in 2020 by declaring 'victory' there too. I think the point he's making is that his actions would be because of kompromat. Being an isolationist wouldn't mean jack poo poo if you're coerced into doing something.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:14
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's both dumb and bad and also illustrative of a worthwhile point. I mean sure, I agree with the underlying vacuous point that some imaginary ideal foreign policy would be ideal to have but that's changing the subject. We were talking about whether D&D liberals should team up with Marco Rubio and Lindsay Kill'EmAll I❤️Rapists Graham to demand forever war in Syria
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Dec 20, 2018 05:15
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sexpig by night posted:trump is an isolationist, it's literally his one feature that made him stand out in the republican primary that wasn't 'this guy may be medically demented'. There's no conspiracy other than this is probably him setting up to do the same in Afghanistan in 2020 by declaring 'victory' there too. Yeah though he only did it now because he needs some kind of news change.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:15
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BonoMan posted:I think the point he's making is that his actions would be because of kompromat. Being an isolationist wouldn't mean jack poo poo if you're coerced into doing something. The point sexpig is making is that kompromat has jack poo poo to do with this, because Trump has been set on this sort of thing since the beginning
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Dec 20, 2018 05:15
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VitalSigns posted:I mean sure, I agree with the underlying vacuous point that some imaginary ideal foreign policy would be ideal to have but that's changing the subject. We were talking about whether D&D liberals should team up with Marco Rubio and Lindsay Kill'EmAll I❤️Rapists Graham to demand forever war in Syria I mean, if they're willing to support the vaguely morally okay Kurdish commies, then sure? edit: I'm pretty sure this road ends with me going round the bend and coming face to face with Tulsi Gabbard, who embraces me as a comrade in bringing secular and/or Hindu socialism to the benighted Arab barbarians Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 05:18
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I think there is an important distinction between "forever war in Syria" and "co-opting local Kurds to serve as your infantry while you send in 12 gyus with beards and velcro to call in airstrikes, and then leaving them to die to Turkish artillery the moment it suits you"
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Dec 20, 2018 05:20
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ZypherIM posted:Stories like that are what I like to bring up when people start talking about deregulation. Like sure, theoretically at some point poo poo can be too regulated. But chances are whatever industry is just mad that they aren't making ENOUGH money hand over fist. And we've got tons, and tons, and tons of examples of what companies will do in the name of profit. Companies exist to make money, not take care of workers, their community, or their environment, which is why we want the govt to step in and say "actually you need to give some shits about this or we'll shut you down and take all the money you made". Workplace safety regulations are almost always written in the blood of exploited labor.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:21
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OctaMurk posted:The point sexpig is making is that kompromat has jack poo poo to do with this, because Trump has been set on this sort of thing since the beginning Oh, duh. It's late and I skimmed to much. BonoMan fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 05:21
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BonoMan posted:I think the point he's making is that his actions would be because of kompromat. Being an isolationist wouldn't mean jack poo poo if you're coerced into doing something. no I got his point but Trump has like one not terrible feature and it's always been his saying 'but also we maybe shouldn't be dying in the desert and blowing people up for nothing and those wars were real stupid'. Like, he's a psychopath who wants to do war crimes and plunder countries as revenge and poo poo but at least he always paid lip service to a concept that no republican ever touched. Him doing this isn't blackmail it's just him being him. gonna own to see a bunch of woke dems saying 'actually sir the forever war is vital'
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Dec 20, 2018 05:23
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Morbus posted:I think there is an important distinction between "forever war in Syria" and "co-opting local Kurds to serve as your infantry while you send in 12 gyus with beards and velcro to call in airstrikes, and then leaving them to die to Turkish artillery the moment it suits you" they're both bad and we should unironically be backing the Syrian Kurds in their current not-getting-murdered and hopefully near future regional autonomy
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Dec 20, 2018 05:24
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sexpig by night posted:no I got his point but Trump has like one not terrible feature and it's always been his saying 'but also we maybe shouldn't be dying in the desert and blowing people up for nothing and those wars were real stupid'. Like, he's a psychopath who wants to do war crimes and plunder countries as revenge and poo poo but at least he always paid lip service to a concept that no republican ever touched. Him doing this isn't blackmail it's just him being him. Yeah sorry I just completely whiffed on reading comprehension on that one. My brain didn't connect "Trump leaving Syria" with "Isolationist."
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Dec 20, 2018 05:24
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sexpig by night posted:no I got his point but Trump has like one not terrible feature and it's always been his saying 'but also we maybe shouldn't be dying in the desert and blowing people up for nothing and those wars were real stupid'. Like, he's a psychopath who wants to do war crimes and plunder countries as revenge and poo poo but at least he always paid lip service to a concept that no republican ever touched. Him doing this isn't blackmail it's just him being him. he also wanted to blanket legalize drug importation and reimportation until someone jangled some shiny keys near him
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Dec 20, 2018 05:26
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men with puns posted:q is stored in the malls Just wanted you to know I appreciated this.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:28
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GreyjoyBastard posted:he also wanted to blanket legalize drug importation and reimportation until someone jangled some shiny keys near him Trump spent most of his life as a generic new york democrat which means he's poo poo on social issues but actually has ok opinions about a not-minor amount of things, but his racism just kept taking over and welp here we are
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Dec 20, 2018 05:29
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I mean, if they're willing to support the vaguely morally okay Kurdish commies, then sure? I am... skeptical that people on record supporting a genocide in Yemen can be trusted about the alleged humanitarian goals of their other favorite war. They're arming the Kurds' enemies do you really think America isn't going to stab them in the back anyway
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Dec 20, 2018 05:32
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Wow that Bosnian war doc posted a few pages ago is outstanding. I was too young to grasp what was going on at the time and that fills in a ton of gaps. The 90's were just plain hosed.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:46
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VitalSigns posted:I am... skeptical that people on record supporting a genocide in Yemen can be trusted about the alleged humanitarian goals of their other favorite war. Better do the thing that will almost certainly kill them, because otherwise we might kill them?
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Dec 20, 2018 05:49
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its going to be interesting see the RWM either try to control trump or for them all to eventually forget and fall behind poopy baby again because he's Republican. The worm brain version of wagging the dog.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:52
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we just need to keep arming the moderate rebels. we regret to inform you the moderate rebels are doing an ethnic cleansing.
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Dec 20, 2018 05:53
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holy poo poo who sends a 20 page unsolicited memo to the DOJ
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Dec 20, 2018 06:01
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theflyingorc posted:Better do the thing that will almost certainly kill them, because otherwise we might kill them? Well we could stop giving billions in weapons to Turkey's authoritarian government which they will use to kill the Kurds, oh but wait think of the MIC profits that would be lost, I guess we have to spend even more billions and kill even more American kids to protect the Kurds from the threat we create! At least until the Kurds become inconvenient for our corporate masters and then they die anyway, just with more death in between now and then. The fact that you lived through, presumably, the same reality as the rest of us for the past 17 years and still naively believe that US aims in the Middle East are in any way humanitarian is both astonishing and deeply sad.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:02
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VitalSigns posted:Well we could stop giving billions in weapons to Turkey's authoritarian government which they will use to kill the Kurds, oh but wait think of the MIC profits that would be lost, I guess we have to spend even more billions and kill even more American kids to protect the Kurds from the threat we create! At least until the Kurds become inconvenient for our corporate masters and then they die anyway, just with more death in between now and then. so that's a yes
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Dec 20, 2018 06:12
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theflyingorc posted:so that's a yes Lol So what's your end game, neocon. Keep shipping Turkey billions in weapons forever and stay at war in the Middle East forever because we can't leave as long as Turkey has the weapons we send them.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:15
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VitalSigns posted:Well we could stop giving billions in weapons to Turkey's authoritarian government which they will use to kill the Kurds, oh but wait think of the MIC profits that would be lost, I guess we have to spend even more billions and kill even more American kids to protect the Kurds from the threat we create! At least until the Kurds become inconvenient for our corporate masters and then they die anyway, just with more death in between now and then. I doubt anyone believes the Trump administrations aims in Syria were humanitarian. Their stated and implicit objectives were very clear: defeat the Islamic State and contain Iran by limiting Assad's power and cutting his supply lines to Tehran. Incidentally, this meant supporting the YPG and spreading their peculiar brand of democratic-confederalism across Eastern Syria. It's just realistic to look cynically at the United States Syria policy. However if you expected Trump to stick a dagger in the Kurds back, this is the moment he blade slips under their shoulder blade. That's not anything I'm going to cheer on.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:15
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Squalid posted:I doubt anyone believes the Trump administrations aims in Syria were humanitarian. Their stated and implicit objectives were very clear: defeat the Islamic State and contain Iran by limiting Assad's power and cutting his supply lines to Tehran. Incidentally, this meant supporting the YPG and spreading their peculiar brand of democratic-confederalism across Eastern Syria. So instead we should just keep on killing people in endless war until the people in charge pick a different time to backstab the YPG since actual mideast democracy is inimical to America's actual goal of looting the place, which is why our buddies are the Saudis and we're funding their genocide while you assure me that we just want to spread democracy.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:18
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GreyjoyBastard posted:zeus would either be great buds with trump or shove him in a locker
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Dec 20, 2018 06:19
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https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1075490787360731138 Have we talked about the upcoming teacher strike in LA? LA Unified School District (LAUSD) is the second largest public school district in the nation after New York. It has been poo poo forever, it's the poster child of all of the "progressive" school changes of the decades. Private schools are huge business, shitton of magnet schools to concentrate the need for resources, Charter schools are loving huge, and big spending boondoggles that were filled with graft. The iPad poo poo was a huge failure especially since they getting ripped off and the poo poo barely worked. Classroom sizes are loving terrible, old textbooks, all of the classic poo poo. Well the Teachers are committed to striking after Winter break ends on (January 7th), they'll walk out over funding for these issues. This will be their first strike in 30 YEARS or since 1989. We've seen how powerful these strikes have been in Red states recently, so it'll be interesting to see if this also has an effect on LA. LAUSD has over 650,000 students. LA has absolutely batshit preschool prices too, and that poo poo is driving young people crazy. The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 06:25
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:https://twitter.com/TrumpsAlert/status/1075551378125148161 https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1075554533487665152
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Dec 20, 2018 06:25
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VitalSigns posted:So instead we should just keep on killing people in endless war until the people in charge pick a different time to backstab the YPG since actual mideast democracy is inimical to America's actual goal of looting the place, which is why our buddies are the Saudis and we're funding their genocide while you assure me that we just want to spread democracy. I don't think the withdrawal means we are going to stop killing people. Last week the Dod announced something like 200 airstrikes in eastern Syria supporting anti IS operations. Probably we are going to try and keep up that pace, although fewer personnel on the ground may reduce the tempo. If the YPG as seems likely now end up diverting forces to counter a Turkish offensive it will also probably hamper the US ability to conduct airstrikes against IS as it will be more difficult to confirm targets. A large part of the people being withdrawn weren't so much engaged in the task of killing people as they were acting as deterrents to Turkish operations and Syrian government operations. If one or both of those entities start up offensives against the SDF we can expect the rate of conflict deaths to begin increasing again in Syria after a long period of declines. Of course its not clear how capable US forces really were at preventing a serious Turkish invasion, but its clear Trump doesn't even care to try.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:27
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i think stelter has the timing backwards if you look at timestamps
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Dec 20, 2018 06:29
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Squalid posted:I don't think the withdrawal means we are going to stop killing people. Last week the Dod announced something like 200 airstrikes in eastern Syria supporting anti IS operations. Probably we are going to try and keep up that pace, although fewer personnel on the ground may reduce the tempo. If the YPG as seems likely now end up diverting forces to counter a Turkish offensive it will also probably hamper the US ability to conduct airstrikes against IS as it will be more difficult to confirm targets. So we're not going to completely stop killing people in Syria therefore we should kill even more? The troops in Syria aren't actually going to do anything if Turkey invades so they're there because???
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Dec 20, 2018 06:32
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VitalSigns posted:Lol I would like us to ship less weapons to Turkey also?
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Dec 20, 2018 06:32
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theflyingorc posted:I would like us to ship less weapons to Turkey also? OK do you think the people who are propagandizing us into supporting forever war in Syria are going to do that
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Dec 20, 2018 06:33
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Squalid posted:It's just realistic to look cynically at the United States' Vietnam policy. However if you expected Nixon to stick a dagger in the South Vietnameses' back, this is the moment he blade slips under their shoulder blade. That's not anything I'm going to cheer on. Sorry, I'm having 50-years-ago flashbacks. I only wish there were still a draft for y'all.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:34
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Willa Rogers posted:Sorry, I'm having 50-years-ago flashbacks.  I'm for a forever war in the Middle East if it's draft-only and only warhawks are required to register. I've done my time in the Middle East, time for all these fanboys who think war is totally awesome and rad to shoulder a rifle.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:36
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There is zero daylight between our glorious leader and Regina George. Cool, good, very awesome and normal.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:37
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eke out posted:holy poo poo who sends a 20 page unsolicited memo to the DOJ Grandpa Simpson.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:47
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eke out posted:holy poo poo who sends a 20 page unsolicited memo to the DOJ It’s really generous calling that a memo and not insane rambling hate mail
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Dec 20, 2018 06:52
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VitalSigns posted:
As much as the chud-turned-conventional-wisdom holds that conscription = slavery, we sure did have shorter wars back when we had a draft, and for good reason. It blows my mind that we're on year 17 in Afghanistan and year almost-16 in Iraq.
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Dec 20, 2018 06:57
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