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FMguru posted:No, I actually did remember that. Guess I've read too many pseudoCeltic fantasy novels in my life. I learned it from Shadowrun. I'm fairly convinced that gaelic spelling is an act of resistance against English colonialism.
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Dec 20, 2018 23:43
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FordCQC posted:Yeah you'd probably have to break down "wizard" or "magic-user" in more granular terms, probably with word-building fluff justifying it. Narrow the scope of their available powers, basically. I have the opposite experience. Every time my players cast a spell, they pick up a d20 and get confused if they don't need to roll it. Spellcasting should use the same gameplay structure everything else in D&D does. Roll d20, add modifiers, announce total, DM describes result or calls for damage roll.
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Dec 21, 2018 00:18
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But then you’d be playing D&D 4e before Essentials returned Magic Missile to its true form.
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Dec 21, 2018 00:29
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BetterWeirdthanDead posted:But then you’d be playing Fantasycraft, with its more functional magic system.
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Dec 21, 2018 01:31
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I wish Fantasycraft got a proper bestiary.
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Dec 21, 2018 03:45
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Yeah, the 'all statblocks are actually instructions on how to scale stats for any level' things was a cool idea, but a nightmare to use in-game.
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Dec 21, 2018 05:29
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FordCQC posted:Someone else mentioned combining this with the ability to roll to see if your actions succeed when you run out of tokens or points and I like this too, but have there ever been any good systems where casting spells requires rolling dice? If there were some that were well designed, were they actually popular? I feel like wizard players always expect their spells to work. Chainmail from the 70s and Age of Sigmar from the 2010s? EDIT: Dungeon World?
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Dec 21, 2018 05:48
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Biomute posted:If D&D draws inspiration from LOTR I guess it makes sense for fighters to be kind of poo poo. 
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Dec 21, 2018 06:06
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Thank you, that one was bothering me too. Although I think Gandalf was at the head of the charge, too.
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Dec 21, 2018 08:35
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There's a couple rogues in that picture too, IIRC. Useless, useless rogues.
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Dec 21, 2018 08:58
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Liquid Communism posted:There's a couple rogues in that picture too, IIRC. Useless, useless rogues. Those are Burglars. LOTR doesn't have proper Rogues.
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Dec 21, 2018 09:20
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Mors Rattus posted:https://blog.white-wolf.com/2018/12/20/vampire-modiphius-partnership/ This is a stronger answer than what I was expecting and I'm very happy with it.
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Dec 21, 2018 09:48
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Luarien posted:Those are Burglars. If we're going by the MERPS rules, they're the most deadly thing on the battlefield. Nothing can defeat a hobbit with a rock.
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Dec 21, 2018 10:07
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Zereth posted:But will he be missing on a natural 1 on his last iterative attack? The fact that every successive attack gets a large, stacking penalty to hit is, to my understand, a big problem for 3.x fighters and fighting types. okay, so in the AD&D days, a Fighter that gained extra attacks would only get them "partially" - two attacks every three rounds, then two attacks per round, then five attacks every three rounds. to get two attacks every three rounds, you'd attack once on every odd-numbered turn, then twice every even-numbered turn when you get to D&D 3e, they instead imposed a -5 penalty on iterative attacks, so you wouldn't have to do the odd/even counting, but the second (and succeeding attacks) still wouldn't be as powerful as simply doubling the number of attacks it's hard to do a comparison of an AD&D Fighter to a 3e one, so instead let's see what might have happened if a 3e Fighter's attacks were still using the AD&D model. A level 6 Fighter is going have +6 BAB, 19/+4 Strength, +1 Weapon Focus, +2 weapon enhancement bonus, for a total of +13 on their attack rolls Against a CR 6 opponent, which would average at around 19 AC, they would have a 75% chance to hit Under the normal 3e model, the level 6 Fighter would attack 200 times over 100 rounds. 100 of those would be at the full BAB, so 75 of them would hit. The other attacks 100 would be at +1 BAB (+8 total), since they'd be iterative attacks. These iteratives would have a 50% chance to hit against 19 AC, so 50 of them would hit. So that comes out to 125 attacks that would hit over 100 rounds. Under an AD&D model, the level 6 Fighter would instead attack 150 times over 100 rounds; 50 rounds of one attack, 50 rounds of two attacks, although all 150 of those attacks would be at full BAB. With a 75% hit rate, the Fighter would hit 112 times over 100 rounds. In this case, the 3e model is actually better for the Fighter. Now, according to 3e encounter design, a level 6 Fighter isn't supposed to be fighting CR 6 enemies in the first place: they're more likely to be fighting CR 2 monsters (so that there will be one monster per PC). CR 2 monsters have 15 AC, and using that as our new baseline, the 3e iterative attack model would result in 165 hits over 100 rounds, as compared to the AD&D model resulting in 142 hits over 100 rounds. The difference is going to narrow as the Fighter becomes less accurate ... which will happen naturally as the Fighter dumps his BAB into Power Attack, but even looking at a +7 attack bonus (with all 6 BAB dumped into Power Attack) against an AC 15 target, the iterative model is still going to land 105 hits over 100 rounds compared to the AD&D model's 97.5 hits over 100 rounds.
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Dec 21, 2018 10:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:okay, so in the AD&D days, a Fighter that gained extra attacks would only get them "partially" - two attacks every three rounds, then two attacks per round, then five attacks every three rounds.
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Dec 21, 2018 11:37
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Notably the game changes for the 1e/2E fighter with access to weapon specialization, and with the addition of another level, since 7th level specialists start getting more attacks per round, going up to 2 per round for melee weapons, 3/ round for bows, and 5/1 for the Dart specialist. (Who added his strength bonus to damage with darts, and if he had gauntlets of ogre power or a belt of giant strength by 7th level, which was entirely possible, welp.)
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Dec 21, 2018 12:01
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I wasn't sure that was even a picture from LOTR, it's just meant to illustrate that swordsmen are plentiful and disposable, while wizards are powerful, to the point of coming back from certain death. thotsky fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Dec 21, 2018 |
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Dec 21, 2018 13:21
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Mors Rattus posted:https://blog.white-wolf.com/2018/12/20/vampire-modiphius-partnership/ That's pretty crazy. I wonder how Modiphius' relationship with the remnants of nuWW will work with the metaplot direction. Something like Onyx Path's where they read through drafts and slip in dumb stuff they think "fits"? Also, Jessica Price has been tweeting more about harassment at past Paizocons, Bill Webb, and being fired from Paizo: https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1075848097064873984 Some interesting excerpts: https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1075853958369824768 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1075856265073455104 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1075857149144657920 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1075858460544094208 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1075859554397614080 https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1075860330834681856 Some other people are contributing, too: https://twitter.com/AmazonChique/status/1075962088382550016 https://twitter.com/AmazonChique/status/1075963595370881024 https://twitter.com/AmazonChique/status/1075977841068523520
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Dec 21, 2018 13:44
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Biomute posted:I wasn't sure that was even a picture from LOTR, it's just meant to illustrate that swordsmen are plentiful and disposable, while wizards are powerful, to the point of coming back from certain death. Even in the crappiest editions of D&D Fighters are better than the hordes of spear dudes they tend to associate with. The problem mostly stems from there not being a lot of stories with armies of halfway there spellcasters, leaving us with the obvious like "Farmer with a pitchfork -> Man at Arms -> Actual hero of the story Fighter" progression, while wizards just sort of have "Apprentice (still a wizard really) -> Hero Wizard."
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Dec 21, 2018 15:49
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Those hero characters are inevitably rangers or paladins. A fighter with pretention might be like a duelist or some poo poo, but really they should stay in the mud where they belong.
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Dec 21, 2018 16:29
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Just make Warlord the standard martial PC.
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Dec 21, 2018 16:43
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Just make Warlord the standard martial PC. Warlord was such a fun class. I loved screaming at my friends not to be on fire anymore. I wish they offered a version of the 4th edition character creator program. I would still probably be playing 4th today if they did.
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Dec 21, 2018 16:54
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Zereth posted:Yes, but the 3e fighter's further attacks keep getting worse and worse. How's it shake out when their last attack is at -15, is what I was trying to get at. To answer your question directly, a level 16 Fighter is going to have +16 BAB, 24/+7 Strength, +1 from Weapon Focus, +1 from Greater Weapon Focus, +2 from Melee Weapon Mastery, and +5 weapon enhancement bonus. That's a total attack bonus of +32. At the low end, they'd be fighting CR 12 monsters with AC of 24. By the fourth attack (third iterative attack), the Fighter would be swinging with an attack bonus of +17, which means they'd be hitting an AC 24 target 70% of the time. At the high end, they'd be fighting CR 16 monsters with an AC of 27, which the fourth attack would be hitting 55% of the time. Going back to an AC 24 target, if you have an attack bonus of +32, you can take a -10 Power Attack penalty and still hit 100% of the time. If you do, then your fourth attack is still hitting 20% of the time. Against an AC 27 target, you can take a -7 Power Attack penalty, and the same relationship would exist: 100% hit rate on the first (full BAB attack), 20% hit rate on the fourth attack.
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Dec 21, 2018 16:57
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A +22 attack bonus against an AC 24 only hits 95% of the time. Same with a +25 bonus against AC 27.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:48
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Mors Rattus posted:A +22 attack bonus against an AC 24 only hits 95% of the time. Same with a +25 bonus against AC 27. edit: I'm a moron apparently!
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Dec 21, 2018 18:14
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Nuns with Guns posted:Also, Jessica Price has been tweeting more about harassment at past Paizocons, Bill Webb, and being fired from Paizo: Oh, lovely. The geek social fallacies writ large, it seems.
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Dec 21, 2018 22:22
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Sage Genesis posted:Oh, lovely. The geek social fallacies writ large, it seems.
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Dec 21, 2018 22:32
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Sage Genesis posted:Oh, lovely. The geek social fallacies writ large, it seems. Yeah, I mean, ~geek social fallacies~ are to blame for a huge amount of lovely behaviour in tabletop, and I don't doubt they could have contributed, but let's not ignore that the stuff described in those tweets is also the same regular sexist bullshit where powerful men do and/or enable sexual harassment because they think they can get away with it and/or they fundamentally don't care about the victims that's been making news in, like, every industry.
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Dec 21, 2018 23:31
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Mors Rattus posted:https://blog.white-wolf.com/2018/12/20/vampire-modiphius-partnership/ Kind of wish I'd preordered them. Those books are going to go for big bucks on ebay.
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Dec 21, 2018 23:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:To answer your question directly, a level 16 Fighter is going to have +16 BAB, 24/+7 Strength, +1 from Weapon Focus, +1 from Greater Weapon Focus, +2 from Melee Weapon Mastery, and +5 weapon enhancement bonus. That's a total attack bonus of +32. On top of this, the fighter they're balancing against tops out at 13th level at 5/2 attacks (and only with a specialized weapon), alternating 3 and 2 attacks, which means that it looks even loving worse for the 2e fighter. I was not exaggerating in the least when I said that 3e was a significant upgrade for fighters and thieves, people were -actually concerned- about that, because it had long since sunk in that 2e fighters and thieves were absolute garbage. A lot of us wanted to push them even harder, and nerf casters more, but that was never going to happen with Monte "Caster Supremacy" Cook in charge. A number of the things we told them as playtesters about the caster classes ended up being implemented in 3.5, after it turned out that we were entirely loving correct, and one was implemented literally as soon as Living Greyhawk started, which was the fact that Druid + as printed Animal Friendship was -massively loving broken-.
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Dec 21, 2018 23:48
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Well that's the end of my reading Greenwood as just a harmless old Whizzzard.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:07
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remusclaw posted:Well that's the end of my reading Greenwood as just a harmless old Whizzzard. People who are that incapable of keeping their dick in their pants and have a reputation as being that openly horny at conventions and in public are never harmless.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:03
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Daeren posted:People who are that incapable of keeping their dick in their pants and have a reputation as being that openly horny at conventions and in public are never harmless. I had no idea about his in person conduct, until now I just thought he was one of those people who wrote with one hand down his pants.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:08
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You mean the person who wrote about his totally-not-self-insert wizard getting turned into a woman by the goddess of magic so they could have hot lesbian sex and he could become the best lover in existence is a sex pest!? Let me suppress my surprise.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:15
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remusclaw posted:I had no idea about his in person conduct, until now I just thought he was one of those people who wrote with one hand down his pants. Shocking news today as known 70s-gandalf-looking sleaze again revealed to be sleaze. e: I mean, he's always been sleazy. People would comment on his general sleaziness even back in the '90s. I've (still) never heard that he assaulted anyone, but it shouldn't be a surprise that he's a creep at this point. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 01:23
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Well, I don't immediately conflate pervert with predator. No surprise though, surprise stopped a long time ago and a celebrity far far away(Specifically France circa 1978-today). Anybody with the slightest weight to throw around seems to have been entirely willing to do it for far too long.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 01:28
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remusclaw posted:I had no idea about his in person conduct, until now I just thought he was one of those people who wrote with one hand down his pants. I've heard at least one anecdote about him running con games in which minors played that involved orgies, so.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:39
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Kurieg posted:You mean the person who wrote about his totally-not-self-insert wizard getting turned into a woman by the goddess of magic so they could have hot lesbian sex and he could become the best lover in existence is a sex pest!? "Soon thereafter, while he was still a young adult, Mystra transformed Elminster into a woman named Elmara to strengthen his bond with magic and to know what it is to be a woman." Wikipedia always makes it sound so nice! Of course now I'm skeeved out by what is meant by 'young adult.'
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Dec 22, 2018 01:54
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Oh, yeah, that's the book that sets it up so that Elminster is actually secret royalty but walks away from the throne. Also features a hilarious foray into light kink with the dominatrix evil wizard lady Elminster has to study under, if I remember right. Forgotten Realms novels were fuckin weird.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:01
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NinjaDebugger posted:I was not exaggerating in the least when I said that 3e was a significant upgrade for fighters and thieves, people were -actually concerned- about that, because it had long since sunk in that 2e fighters and thieves were absolute garbage. do you mean that 3.5 was an improvement, or the opposite?
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Dec 22, 2018 04:28
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