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eyebeem posted:Hahaha no. That’s some poo poo math. I would also love to hear an assessment on this because it's my understanding that we mostly use steel for structural support and cheaper material around it because doing everything out of steel is not just stupid but also ludicrously expensive
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Dec 22, 2018 00:11
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by the way, the reason jones was the "yes" vote to get that deal done and not any other red state dem (i.e. manchin) is that jones is up in 2020 and has the most to gain by burnishing his bipartisan bona fides on being the crossover vote
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Dec 22, 2018 00:11
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i am honestly surprised he is smart enough to understand passive aggressiveness. He only knows what it's about because he heard them talking about it on TV.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:11
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eke out posted:yeah this is basically a concise summation well lets hope they kill the wall part.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:12
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theflyingorc posted:How much should it cost, then Because I’m bored... Assuming we put a fence on the entire 2,000 miles of border, which we can’t and wouldn’t, and that the exposed posts are 50’, which is higher than reality, and they have 20’ embedment, which is overkill.. Assume a 14” H beam placed diagonally at 6” spacing so people can’t sneak through. That gives you 10.5million LF of beam. Let’s be super conservative and say we go with an HP14x43 beam at 43lb/lf, again overkill. You end up with 9.5million tons of steel. In 2012, the planet went through 1.4billion tons of steel.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:12
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evilweasel posted:by the way, the reason jones was the "yes" vote to get that deal done and not any other red state dem (i.e. manchin) is that jones is up in 2020 and has the most to gain by burnishing his bipartisan bona fides on being the crossover vote Oh man does that mean we get to spend the next 2 years debating whether Jones is the worst instead of Manchin????
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Dec 22, 2018 00:13
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also the test vote until the few votes shifted proved they don't have a majority for THE WALL in the senate so they can tell trump to stuff it on the nuclear option idea. everyone got the message of the test vote and nobody in the house or senate is unclear that democrats won that test vote
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Dec 22, 2018 00:13
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Dapper_Swindler posted:no i meant that the govement will shut down long enough that whatever they boot to the house will be torn apart by the new house dems. It seems like a political disaster for the GOP to shut down the government for weeks and then give Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats the chance to "fix" it after its well and worn down people and started to actually affect people's lives in real ways. Then again it seems like a political disaster for Paul Ryan's last act of politics to be shutting down the government or for Trump to go back on his promises and demand a shut down because Ann Coulter double dog dared him. So who knows?
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Dec 22, 2018 00:13
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Dapper_Swindler posted:no i meant that the govement will shut down long enough that whatever they boot to the house will be torn apart by the new house dems. I think all Un-passed bills die at the end of the session, so they'll have to re-pass both.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:13
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:I would also love to hear an assessment on this because it's my understanding that we mostly use steel for structural support and cheaper material around it because doing everything out of steel is not just stupid but also ludicrously expensive Steel is very cheap. It costs a lot more to form and pour reinforced concrete than it does to bolt up and weld cheap Chinese steel. Raw steel is like $400-500 per ton. Simple fabricated beams would be about $1200-1500 per ton. But seriously, my tonnage estimate is probably double reality. I’m more so pointing out that it’s nowhere near a large chunk of the steel produced in a year. eyebeem fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 00:13
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Z. Autobahn posted:Oh man does that mean we get to spend the next 2 years debating whether Jones is the worst instead of Manchin???? Jones had actually made a couple good votes, Manchin will always be king of poo poo mountain
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Dec 22, 2018 00:14
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evilweasel posted:nah this isn't about anyone hoping for a specific result. it's basically an agreement that "these votes are dumb and we're gonna want to reopen the government asap once we finally have a deal, so get this to the floor but we don't vote on it until we have something that's gonna pass and become law asap" When could all this happen? Would they have to wait till the new house is sworn in, or do they keep working through the holidays?
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Dec 22, 2018 00:14
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STAC Goat posted:It seems like a political disaster for the GOP to shut down the government for weeks and then give Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats the chance to "fix" it after its well and worn down people and started to actually affect people's lives in real ways. oh i think the GOP and especially trump will get the blame for this poo poo show. Shifty Pony posted:I think all Un-passed bills die at the end of the session, so they'll have to re-pass both. well that makes me feel better sorta.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:15
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Z. Autobahn posted:Oh man does that mean we get to spend the next 2 years debating whether Jones is the worst instead of Manchin???? most likely. his political persona doesn't make it as likely he positions himself as "republican, but without taking away your healthcare" but he'll be much more likely to be a crossover vote on stuff that's gonna pass anyway and whatever passes for a potential crossover vote in alabama might like.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:15
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Ham posted:When could all this happen? Would they have to wait till the new house is sworn in, or do they keep working through the holidays? theoretically they could reach a deal anytime in the next few days, amend the house bill and send it back to the house, and get the government reopened before the new house is sworn in if the shutdown lasts into the next session, all bills expire and there's no longer a House bill with wall money and the House will immediately pass a clean continuing resolution
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Dec 22, 2018 00:16
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zenguitarman posted:I'm sorry, but this is literally unbelievable. What the gently caress, this country. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump...genumber%3D1045
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Dec 22, 2018 00:17
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evilweasel posted:theoretically they could reach a deal anytime in the next few days, amend the house bill and send it back to the house, and get the government reopened before the new house is sworn in so i guess my question is, what are the chances we are getting a wall then.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:17
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I retract my earlier anger at Jones. I guess I'm just primed for democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and all that.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:17
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eyebeem posted:Steel is very cheap. It costs a lot more to form and pour reinforced concrete than it does to bolt up and weld cheap Chinese steel. Ah, so that's still like $5-10 billion for raw material, right? (And I don't know about the building portion of federal contracting but if it's anything like tech I'm sure that's the cheapest part of a contract)
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Dec 22, 2018 00:17
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whats the cost if we only use FREEDOM steel from the USA?
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Dec 22, 2018 00:18
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The Super-Id posted:I retract my earlier anger at Jones. I guess I'm just primed for democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and all that. yea I also apologize for my knee jerk (if historically founded) assumption of dem spinelessness.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:18
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Wall's past 13 million.Z. Autobahn posted:Oh man does that mean we get to spend the next 2 years debating whether Jones is the worst instead of Manchin???? Sinema. 
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Dec 22, 2018 00:18
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so i guess my question is, what are the chances we are getting a wall then. zero. the test vote showed you can't even get 50 votes for a wall in the senate. dems have no incentive whatsoever to cave here. the only way you get a wall is if trump suddenly accepts the wall for dream act deal.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:19
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Ah, so that's still like $5-10 billion for raw material, right? (And I don't know about the building portion of federal contracting but if it's anything like tech I'm sure that's the cheapest part of a contract) I’d put it at about 30% of the price for the construction contract, and 15% of the overall cost once you factor engineering and direct costs on the government side (project management, environmental etc).
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Dec 22, 2018 00:20
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Z. Autobahn posted:LMFAO imagine gloating you were right based solely on the word of John Cornyn praising the negotiative powers of Jared Kushner and Mike Pence.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:20
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Ah, so that's still like $5-10 billion for raw material, right? (And I don't know about the building portion of federal contracting but if it's anything like tech I'm sure that's the cheapest part of a contract) Labor costs and getting heavy construction equipment to 2000 miles of border while you dig a probably 10 foot deep trench that presumably will be filled with concrete, which also has to be hauled out to remote as gently caress border locations is going to dwarf the cost of steel. And of course there's the cost of the legal battles over how they get the land, etc.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:20
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I want that steel spike diagram to be to scale so they can build it with HUGE spaces between the poles that are easily slipped through.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:20
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So, uh two things. First, Trump doesn't know how to post pictures if I'm not mistaken so this is a staff tweet. Someone on his staff thought posting this was a good idea. Second, couldn't you just, like, wrap a chain around a slat, hook the ends to an F-150 and pull the slat down
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Dec 22, 2018 00:20
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mutata posted:I want that steel spike diagram to be to scale so they can build it with HUGE spaces between the poles that are easily slipped through. it's trump scale so I imagine they're wide enough to drive a Humvee through
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Dec 22, 2018 00:21
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evilweasel posted:zero. the test vote showed you can't even get 50 votes for a wall in the senate. dems have no incentive whatsoever to cave here. the only way you get a wall is if trump suddenly accepts the wall for dream act deal. ok. well that makes me feel alot better. i guess the wall is dead forever now unless he forces the military to do it.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:22
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https://twitter.com/Crafty_Consumer/status/1075780891757211649?s=19
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Dec 22, 2018 00:22
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Getting heavy construction equipment to 2000 miles of border while you dig a probably 10 foot deep trench that presumably will be filled with concrete, which also has to be hauled out to remote as gently caress border locations is going to dwarf the cost of steel. Nah that’s not how this would work. You would grade a flat road the length of the fence and auger a 16-20” wide hole 15-25’ deep at each post. You’d set the post in that hole and either fill the annulus with crushed rock or slurry cement. I’d probably make an effort to use locally mined materials with a portable crusher where possible in the rocky desert areas of the west.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:22
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I feel it might be based on more than that, such as e.g. Chuck Schumer's long and storied history of completely sucking rear end along with his openly claiming to govern according to the whims of voices in his head. It's one thing to make predictions, wrong as they are, but it's wholly another to do an "I Told You So" victory dance when literally nothing has happened to validate your point.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:23
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for the NOTHING MATTERS DEMS BAD crowd, what's the appeal of posting in this thread or following minute-by-minute political news?
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Dec 22, 2018 00:24
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eyebeem posted:Nah that’s not how this would work. I love that thread posters have thought more about this than the prez has
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Dec 22, 2018 00:24
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I feel it might be based on more than that, such as e.g. Chuck Schumer's long and storied history of completely sucking rear end along with his openly claiming to govern according to the whims of voices in his head. given that you clearly are listening to voices inside your head instead of reality you're not really in a position to criticize that
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Dec 22, 2018 00:24
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I’m legit tempted to build an actual estimate right now for the insane spike wall, taking into account geographic limitations. I wonder if I could get a rough number from a steel fabricator. I have so many other things I could be doing with my Friday.
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Dec 22, 2018 00:25
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evilweasel posted:given that you clearly are listening to voices inside your head instead of reality you're not really in a position to criticize that There is absolutely no way that Schumer thinks about the Baileys as often as threadposters
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Dec 22, 2018 00:26
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Tayter Swift posted:So, uh two things. Funny thing is a midsize suv is like 16-17 feet, the vehicle is what 12 slats long, so each slat+empty space is about 16 or 17 inches and there appears to be about a 60:40 ratio of empty space to slat. So each gap is about 10 inches at that scale eyebeem posted:Nah that’s not how this would work. You can't auger individual holes when they're all 4 inches apart E: on further thought, you'd probably have to pre weld like 8 or 10 foot sections of the fence and then you could maybe auger a ditch, albeit an un-reinforced narrow ditch is going to collapse in like 99% of soil conditions so it would either take specific shoring or might even be easier to just use bulldozers to make a trench and then just bulldoze dirt back into place later. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 00:26
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This may have already been posted but I don't care https://twitter.com/mikegehrke/status/1076245139583053824?s=20
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Dec 22, 2018 00:26
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