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Osama Dozen-Dongs posted:lol you don't gotta lie, this is d&d You're right, I don't have to lie and I am not. As for Putin, I have always had the same line, he is an authoritarian right-wing strongman that is utilizing nationalism to cover up his grifting. HIs support often fluctuates depending on what is actually occurring inside the country. But the fact that Russians, not just Putin, need to be hated is the issue, and the entire dysfunctional relationship between Russia and the West is bigger than him.
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Dec 22, 2018 23:14
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I really don't think Ardennes is what you think he is
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Dec 22, 2018 23:14
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spacetoaster posted:Because pay is pretty important. Low pay, coupled with mandatory service in poor conditions tends to dampen that patriotic spirit. LeoMarr posted:I use poo poo wages as an all inclusive term for all the reasons a ukranian soldier would defect if given the choice between that and dying to russian howitzers I still don't agree. Wages were a non-issue in Yugoslavian wars. You fought either because you wanted to or because your government made you, not because of high wages. You evaded conscription and ran away because you were afraid of dying and didn't believe in the cause, not because of low wages. I think that goes for most recent wars. How much were Vietkong soldiers paid? Or those landing on Omaha beach? alex314 posted:People got disillusioned with politicians, and Russia wages a hugely successful propaganda campaign. I have a very low opinion of our politicians but I guess the Ukrainian are worse.
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Dec 23, 2018 10:02
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Ardennes posted:You're right, I don't have to lie and I am not. And maybe, just maybe, the dysfunctional relationship might have to do something with the repeated invasions and annexations.
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Dec 23, 2018 10:54
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anilEhilated posted:Don't forget the warmongering. Which apparently brings him a lot of popularity; at this point the best you can say for the common Russians is that most of them are brainwashed zombies. Crimea did, but the war in Donbass was always murkier in terms of popularity. That said, it honestly it is no different than really other countries where nationalism and foreign adventurism is used to bolster a government wants to distract a population. Also, the relationship with Russia and the West pretty much has been dysfunctional since 1991. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 11:03
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It's not just Crimea and Donbass, though; their propaganda utilizes Syria to the max and the attack on Georgia was followed by favorable polls as well. And obviously, the fact others do it as well is no excuse.
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Dec 23, 2018 13:24
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And the internal war in Chechnya was also extremely popular.
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Dec 23, 2018 13:44
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loving donbass who cares if your beachhead is politiclly supported. Donbass is just amother province that puts them closer to mariupol
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Dec 23, 2018 17:25
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anilEhilated posted:It's not just Crimea and Donbass, though; their propaganda utilizes Syria to the max and the attack on Georgia was followed by favorable polls as well. Syria is actually fairly briefly mentioned in the Russian press from what I have seen. The Georgian War was more popular, but lets be honest there that one was a bit more complex One thing is that usually, these wars are during a period of economic crisis or stress for Moscow (the second Chechen War followed the Asian crisis, the Georgian War was right at the start of the great recession when oil prices started to drop, Crimea obviously followed Euromadian, as did Donbass and Syria started right after the 2015 oil crisis.) No doubt there is a revanchist thread in Russian politics, but at the same time after everything, Putin's polls are hovering in the mid-50s and that is after all of these conflicts. That said, I do think a potential further drop in oil prices in 2019 is a reason for concern even through the Ruble has semi-detached from oil prices. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Dec 23, 2018 |
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Dec 23, 2018 19:27
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I’m fairly ignorant of euro affairs, what does Russia gain from another Ukraine invasion? Syria made some sense as propping up Assad kept med ports open for Russia. Crimea also provided ports, would another strike be to secure Crimea and give Putin a boost in popularity? Hoping that euro and the us are too disorganised/unwilling to start major poo poo seems like a big gamble to take.
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Dec 24, 2018 06:30
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Word on the street is, a much more likely next PR stunt for Putin would be unification with (purchase of) Belarus. Which would give him a cozy new post and, hopefully, a few popularity points. Personally, I think it'll be a long time before something like this, or a big war, is required. The system is very confident and in control. In fact, more than willing to piss off some of the population to SAVE some cash.
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Dec 24, 2018 09:50
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anilEhilated posted:And obviously, the fact others do it as well is no excuse. This is obvious to most, but i also think it does help putin at least a little bit. "putin why another war?" "well, the western aggressors," *RT plays random iraq fox news feed* woodenchicken posted:Personally, I think it'll be a long time before something like this, or a big war, is required. The system is very confident and in control. In fact, more than willing to piss off some of the population to SAVE some cash. Definitely looks like it. Has the retirement age issue calmed down at all yet?
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Dec 24, 2018 10:05
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Truga posted:Definitely looks like it. Has the retirement age issue calmed down at all yet? It's calmed down, yes, but the system has not recovered from it. https://www.levada.ru/en/2018/12/07/approval-ratings-5/
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Dec 24, 2018 10:07
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One possible reason for an invasion would be to create a land corridor to Crimea, because while the bridge is good PR, the water situation on the peninsula is critical and AFAIK there is no solution for now. For example, in September there was this ecological disaster: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45433463 quote:Armyansk, home to about 22,000 people, lies near the de facto Ukrainian border. Russia annexed Ukraine's Crimea peninsula in March 2014. https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/12/dam-leaves-crimea-population-chronic-water-shortage-161229092648659.html quote:In 2013, the North Crimean Canal drew 1.5 million cubic meters of water. It amounted to about 85 percent of Crimea's drinking and irrigation water. But shortly after the annexation, Ukrainian authorities shut the canal with a hastily-built dam. This is very bad PR for Russia that can in theory be solved with desalination plants, however if the oil prices stay low I am afraid Putin will need another "quick successful war".
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Dec 24, 2018 10:11
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Latvian government talks this time around are something out of this world. KPL LV (populists/lolbertarians) head has suggested JKP (statists) candidate for prime minister seat to dismiss the candidacy of party-promoted future interior minister, KPV LV's own earlier candidate for the prime minister seat. E: Oh and I guess for more comedy, Shoygu is promising that stairs in the upcoming main temple of Russian Army (don't ask) will be made out of molten German tanks. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 21:21
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anilEhilated posted:It's not just Crimea and Donbass, though; their propaganda utilizes Syria to the max and the attack on Georgia was followed by favorable polls as well. I don't know, the fact that the war in Georgia lasted about a month might have something to do with its popularity. If our wars in the middle east were so short, they'd bother me a whole lot less.
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Dec 25, 2018 00:20
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https://twitter.com/EspresoTV/status/1077573641666125824
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Dec 25, 2018 15:37
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Russia helps punish traitors to Ukraine who collaborate with them
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Dec 25, 2018 16:20
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OddObserver posted:Russia helps punish traitors to Ukraine who collaborate with them The funny thing is they have included plenty of politicians who weren't that critical of Russia, and mainly focused on opposition to Poroshenko, like Vilkul and Muraev. Literally no-one can explain why. If it's to distance them from Russia ahead of elections, this will only imply they are fake opposition in cahoots with Poroshenko, while the opposition politicians who are actually rumoured to be in Poroshenko's pocket, like Boiko and Rabinovich, are not in the list. Some people even conclude that the list means Poroshenko is actually good for Russia, so they're trying to keep him in power. 4D chess conspiracies at their finest.
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Dec 26, 2018 18:10
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Putin why do you even need a Hypersonic A-Bomb?
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Dec 27, 2018 03:39
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It is probably because Trump is talking about pulling out of the INF.
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Dec 27, 2018 03:48
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Ardennes posted:It is probably because Trump is talking about pulling out of the INF. Russia has broken the treaty numerous times via modifying mid range missiles for ground based launch Unfortunately, for the US to maintain the nuclear edge we must exit the treaty as russia has already done things that have degredated the integrity of the agreement. Russia is literally annexing territory in europe and wreaking havoc with 4th gen warfare It may be surprising to know that Russia wouldnt be able to hold territory in a modern occupation i.e iraq etc. It doesnt work. Russia has to create proxy puppets over years aka the astroturf firehose. Someone asked about why Russia would want to puppet Ukraine, the reason is to thwart further nato expansion and establish a barrier state backed by heavy industry located right on the sea so goods can be moved in quick order. Ukraine without mariupol or odessa or crimea Is a rump state. One that would require more outside assistance to survive. The first priority Russia started after crimea was to work on the bridge. To connect russia to inner ukraine permanently. This bridge also cements russian control of the black sea as it allows rapid redelopyments of heavy arms in case of incursion into the island (and the water shortage oops) WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 28, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 04:52
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LeoMarr posted:Russia has broken the treaty numerous times via modifying mid range missiles for ground based launch Ok Dick Cheney.  The post-war order is collapsing, and part of that is the collapse of arms control treaties. It's gonna get ugly as climate change sets in.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:01
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Lightning Knight posted:Ok Dick Cheney. 
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Dec 27, 2018 06:26
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Nuclear ICBMs have been hypersonic since they were developed....during the phase where they re-enter the atmosphere. Mach 3 for early ICMBs to around 20 for modern ones. Blame China I guess https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/01/30/the-arms-race-goes-hypersonic/
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Dec 27, 2018 07:18
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AceRimmer posted:Nuclear ICBMs have been hypersonic since they were developed....during the phase where they re-enter the atmosphere. Mach 3 for early ICMBs to around 20 for modern ones. Icbms arent the issue here mrbms are the mainsail of the inf treaty
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Dec 27, 2018 07:31
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This new missile has been in development for way longer than Trump has been in office or even a candidate. Blaming the US (or at least the current administration's behavior regarding the INF treaty) for its existence is asinine.
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Dec 27, 2018 09:07
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I'd rather blame the US withdrawal from the anti-ballistic missile treaty back in 2002. I think Russia is worried that the US could at some point invest in enough defenses to endanger its deterrent. Once you cut through the bluster, I think anyone would do the same. Nuclear strategy is remarkably similar regardless of nation or ideology. If someone builds defenses, or even scares you with the prospect that they might, you're going to build weapons to try and get through these defenses (and maybe your own defenses for parity) because otherwise the threat of your deterrent is eroded, and in the extreme you may face an opponent that could win a nuclear war. (Which informs things even if it never comes to that.) If treaties could be made to limit defenses and new weapons we could skip all this nonsense and not have another arms race.
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Dec 27, 2018 13:02
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I dunno, if Russia detonated a quarter of their nuclear arsenal on the ground they'd destroy the world all the same, wouldn't they?
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Dec 27, 2018 14:12
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Dawncloack posted:I dunno, if Russia detonated a quarter of their nuclear arsenal on the ground they'd destroy the world all the same, wouldn't they? Uh, no.
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Dec 27, 2018 14:31
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Dawncloack posted:I dunno, if Russia detonated a quarter of their nuclear arsenal on the ground they'd destroy the world all the same, wouldn't they?
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Dec 27, 2018 14:46
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I understand that nuclear destruction is cool and fascinating, but let's honour the legacy of "no Clancy chat" rule.
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Dec 27, 2018 14:49
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Russia Today like to send thematic Christmas gifts to other media organisations. This year it's chocolate Salisbury cathedrals, referencing the time their editor-in-chief participated in the GRU's attempt to cover up their involvement in the attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal using a highly dangerous chemical agent, lol https://twitter.com/ilya_shepelin/status/1078288466327334915
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Dec 27, 2018 15:25
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Dawncloack posted:I dunno, if Russia detonated a quarter of their nuclear arsenal on the ground they'd destroy the world all the same, wouldn't they? If you mean "shatter the Earth into a new asteroid belt for the Sun, Death Star-style" then no, absolutely not. If you mean "provoke an environmental and civilizational collapse that will wipe out most and perhaps even all of humanity" then yes.
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Dec 27, 2018 15:25
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:This new missile has been in development for way longer than Trump has been in office or even a candidate. Blaming the US (or at least the current administration's behavior regarding the INF treaty) for its existence is asinine. It has added recent heat, but your right it probably goes go back to the US withdrawing from the ABM.
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Dec 27, 2018 15:49
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Brown Moses posted:Russia Today like to send thematic Christmas gifts to other media organisations. This year it's chocolate Salisbury cathedrals, referencing the time their editor-in-chief participated in the GRU's attempt to cover up their involvement in the attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal using a highly dangerous chemical agent, lol But is it Roshen chocolates? (And did they send one to the BBC?)
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Dec 27, 2018 15:50
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Brown Moses posted:Russia Today like to send thematic Christmas gifts to other media organisations. This year it's chocolate Salisbury cathedrals, referencing the time their editor-in-chief participated in the GRU's attempt to cover up their involvement in the attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal using a highly dangerous chemical agent, lol Next year it will be a giant Tula Gingerbread with NOTHING MATTERS LOL written on it
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Dec 27, 2018 16:23
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Brown Moses posted:Russia Today like to send thematic Christmas gifts to other media organisations. This year it's chocolate Salisbury cathedrals, referencing the time their editor-in-chief participated in the GRU's attempt to cover up their involvement in the attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal using a highly dangerous chemical agent, lol "Attempted" assassination. Are you sure we can go ahead and call it "highly" dangerous when it didn't even off anyone?
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Dec 27, 2018 18:31
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It managed to kill Dawn Sturgess well enough.
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Dec 27, 2018 18:43
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Incompetence and danger hand in hand.
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Dec 27, 2018 18:51
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