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This is a long but really good read on The Verge about Amazon and their practices when dealing with marketplace sellers, and hoooooooo-leeee-poo poo that is a completely hosed business setup.  quote:Typically, the prompt legal threats were enough to scare off competitors, but one September morning last year, he woke to see an interloper had remained on his listings through the night. Strangely, Harris realized, they had also found a way to steal his own seller name, SharpSurvival. His account had been transformed into the generic Seller123. He reported the imposter to Amazon, as he’d done countless times before. But this time, nothing happened. Summary of a favorite part: a guy trademarked his brand and product name to keep scammers from selling knock-offs on his listing. So a scammer trademarked his Amazon user name behind his back, appealed the trademark to Amazon to take over his seller account, and started selling knock-offs under his username regardless. Amazon’s response? “lol too bad” Holy poo poo that company is 100% pure libertarian evil and it’s loving insane to know they command half of e-commerce in the US.
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Dec 19, 2018 17:35
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I tried to do some Christmas shopping in person. Everything was just cheap Chinese crap or products made in the most impoverished country possible. High end stores don't differ much either. More Chinese made trash but at 5x the price. I ended up buying Japanese and German made stuff online instead. The only local store that had a good selection was a bougie all natural pet supplies store. Lots of interesting locally made stuff. Their dog biscuits tasted alright.
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Dec 19, 2018 18:05
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:Their dog biscuits tasted alright. Did the dog look at you funny?
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Dec 19, 2018 18:15
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https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1074431720441536513 this is so gross
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Dec 19, 2018 18:24
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madeintaipei posted:Did the dog look at you funny? I know. Seriously, dude, don't eat the dog biscuits yourself. Not even as a taste test. They're really not made for the human immune system.
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Dec 19, 2018 19:16
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Neither of you are his dad. Let him eat.
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Dec 19, 2018 19:17
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I tried a tiny cat treat once; surprisingly didn't taste like much, but my cats love them and that's all that matters.
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Dec 19, 2018 19:18
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JustJeff88 posted:I tried a tiny cat treat once; surprisingly didn't taste like much, but my cats love them and that's all that matters. I read a thing about how cats dream of a life of eating the same few things every single day for their entire life but humans find that boring and upsetting so a huge amount of cat food design is creating foods that people will see as being as different as possible while trying to make the taste as similar as possible to other foods as they can.
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Dec 19, 2018 19:22
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Plenty of baked dog treats (especially ones that don't contain meat or attempt to be meat flavored) are perfectly fine for human consumption, even if they don't taste all that good. Cat treats on the other hand... 
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Dec 19, 2018 19:25
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Ripoff posted:This is a long but really good read on The Verge about Amazon and their practices when dealing with marketplace sellers, and hoooooooo-leeee-poo poo that is a completely hosed business setup. The truly insidious thing is their AmazonBasics stuff. Amazon has all the data in the world to know what products are selling and what kind of money their marketplace sellers are making. Once Amazon sees a product is doing gangbusters on their site they go up to the OEM supplier and have the same thing made up with an AmazonBasics label. They then start selling that product on their site with premium search placement and drive the other product either out of business or much lower on the rankings.
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Dec 19, 2018 19:27
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FCKGW posted:The truly insidious thing is their AmazonBasics stuff. Amazon has all the data in the world to know what products are selling and what kind of money their marketplace sellers are making. Once Amazon sees a product is doing gangbusters on their site they go up to the OEM supplier and have the same thing made up with an AmazonBasics label. They then start selling that product on their site with premium search placement and drive the other product either out of business or much lower on the rankings. see exhibit AmazonBasics brand motor oil
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Dec 19, 2018 20:06
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FCKGW posted:The truly insidious thing is their AmazonBasics stuff. Amazon has all the data in the world to know what products are selling and what kind of money their marketplace sellers are making. Once Amazon sees a product is doing gangbusters on their site they go up to the OEM supplier and have the same thing made up with an AmazonBasics label. They then start selling that product on their site with premium search placement and drive the other product either out of business or much lower on the rankings. are you new to white label stuff or what
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Dec 19, 2018 20:06
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big trivia FAIL posted:see exhibit AmazonBasics brand motor oil Holy poo poo you’re not kidding.
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Dec 19, 2018 20:56
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exploded mummy posted:are you new to white label stuff or what No but in brick and mortar your white label stuff is usually sold along side your name brand stuff and the name brand stuff generally still sells well. The top position on Amazon search gets like 80% of the sales and Amazon has full control over that.
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Dec 19, 2018 21:10
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FCKGW posted:No but in brick and mortar your white label stuff is usually sold along side your name brand stuff and the name brand stuff generally still sells well. It's an acceleration of a already occurring trend. Every product basically has a graph of the money over time that the product generates. I might dig up some examples of this graph for the thread later. Anyway the time period has been getting shorter. Basically all instances of widgets are generating sales for shorter and shorter windows. The largest driver is not Amazon (though they are obviously contributing) it's us, it's the nature of consumer demand.
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Dec 19, 2018 21:59
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FCKGW posted:No but in brick and mortar your white label stuff is usually sold along side your name brand stuff and the name brand stuff generally still sells well. I'm really curious if you have any questions example of a truly unique product that Amazon has made a white label version of. I'd be convinced if some as see on TV or sharper image hit got an immediate Amazon basics version. But Amazon basics versions of towels and batteries seem to me like a good idea. Also since it's Christmas can I get an Amazon Basics Bible? Seems like a best selling product they could offer at a cut rate price.
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Dec 25, 2018 19:01
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They certainly do copy popular new products, like laptop stands and things of that nature. Not just towels.
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Dec 25, 2018 22:03
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KingFisher posted:I'm really curious if you have any questions example of a truly unique product that Amazon has made a white label version of. I'd be convinced if some as see on TV or sharper image hit got an immediate Amazon basics version. But Amazon basics versions of towels and batteries seem to me like a good idea. Why does it have to be unique? Amazon Basics sells a pretty good 3-button optical mouse. Someone else was selling that exact mouse and tons of people were buying it because hey, nice cheap 3-button optical mouse I don't need anything more complicated than that cool. Then Amazon was like "hey that's selling really well" and released their own while making it the first, cheapest result for "mouse". Isn't that what the complaint is about?
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Dec 25, 2018 22:49
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BrandorKP posted:It's an acceleration of a already occurring trend. Every product basically has a graph of the money over time that the product generates. I might dig up some examples of this graph for the thread later. Anyway the time period has been getting shorter. Basically all instances of widgets are generating sales for shorter and shorter windows. The largest driver is not Amazon (though they are obviously contributing) it's us, it's the nature of consumer demand. Except Amazon can make their own demand with the search placement. Search for Dog Crate and you get a sponsored ad for AmazonBasics brand at the top of the list instead of from the company MidWest who's dog crates you find in Petsmart and those kinds of places. If you're MidWest and Amazon is now selling a knockoff of your crate at a cheaper price AND is taking the top placement via a sponsored ad, your only option is really just to outbid their ad and spend a shitload of money advertising your crate when you just used to make the best, most popular crate on Amazon before.
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Dec 25, 2018 23:40
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I do not see why I should care which company's brand is place on pile of injection molded plastic to make dog crate. That is not a product that has seen much advantage in recent year, and I doubt if the dog crate brand have not paid dog stores for prominent aisle placement in such stores to get their current position there. I know for certain that all sorts of other product have arrangements with retailer where they pay for the "prime showcasing" in the aisle and even at ends of aisle. Some chains of retailer even prominently place the house brand in those locations at some or all times.
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Dec 25, 2018 23:52
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nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:I do not see why I should care which company's brand is place on pile of injection molded plastic to make dog crate. That is not a product that has seen much advantage in recent year, and I doubt if the dog crate brand have not paid dog stores for prominent aisle placement in such stores to get their current position there. I know for certain that all sorts of other product have arrangements with retailer where they pay for the "prime showcasing" in the aisle and even at ends of aisle. You mean beyond the fact that it’s monopolistic behavior, right?
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Dec 26, 2018 00:12
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Solkanar512 posted:You mean beyond the fact that it’s monopolistic behavior, right? Do you wish to sue all retail stores who do the same? It would seem the courts have not had issue for many decades. There are even stores that rely heavily on the house brands, like the Aldi brother chains, even though they allow some small amount of outside brand.
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Dec 26, 2018 00:18
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Yes FCKGW they absolutely are contributing! But they are not the main driving cause. This problem started before Amazon. They just have a better understanding of it than most other companies. Zara is another example of a company that understand this trend and has contributed to accelerating it.
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Dec 26, 2018 00:28
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Once the competitors are out of the way they'll raise prices. 
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Dec 26, 2018 00:35
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Is it a knockoff or is it a white label? Cause there's only one of those the original company cares about.
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Dec 26, 2018 00:37
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nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:Do you wish to sue all retail stores who do the same? It would seem the courts have not had issue for many decades. There are even stores that rely heavily on the house brands, like the Aldi brother chains, even though they allow some small amount of outside brand. When I go to Safeway the Safeway brand noodles are just sitting on a shelf next to all of the other noodles, they aren't placed in front of the other brands
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Dec 26, 2018 05:07
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QuarkJets posted:When I go to Safeway the Safeway brand noodles are just sitting on a shelf next to all of the other noodles, they aren't placed in front of the other brands In the grocery business they say the best place to put up the product to sell to adults is on the shelf that is the average eye level, and on the side of section that you expect the most people in the aisle to see first. No brand is the literal in front of other boxes, but the one that paid the store most, or the one the store wants to sell most, is given the most favorable spot. And of the second favored brand, the second best spot. So on it goes. It is extremely similar to having placed products in the amazon listing on top. Amazon even charges price to sellers to place their result up top just like is done on real shelf!
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Dec 26, 2018 05:16
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Shopping in a physical store is literally the exact same thing as clicking around a website's UI so I don't see why this argument is going on.
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Dec 26, 2018 05:25
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poo poo POST MALONE posted:Shopping in a physical store is literally the exact same thing as clicking around a website's UI so I don't see why this argument is going on. What is the difference meant to contain, in complaint about prominent placing?
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Dec 26, 2018 05:31
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nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:In the grocery business they say the best place to put up the product to sell to adults is on the shelf that is the average eye level, and on the side of section that you expect the most people in the aisle to see first. No brand is the literal in front of other boxes, but the one that paid the store most, or the one the store wants to sell most, is given the most favorable spot. And of the second favored brand, the second best spot. So on it goes. The complaint is that Amazon is giving premier placement to their own products after making a generic version of a competitor's, I don't give a poo poo if a bunch of competitors are bidding for premier shelf space at a store so long as the store isn't saying "gently caress all of you, I'm putting my pasta on all of the premier shelves and yours is going on the bottom shelf"
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Dec 26, 2018 06:36
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QuarkJets posted:The complaint is that Amazon is giving premier placement to their own products after making a generic version of a competitor's, I don't give a poo poo if a bunch of competitors are bidding for premier shelf space at a store so long as the store isn't saying "gently caress all of you, I'm putting my pasta on all of the premier shelves and yours is going on the bottom shelf" But there are many store out there where the house brand is the prominent ones, and not the other brands. For many product. Do you want this illegal, as it is not now? They will even use conventional bidding for other products they do not make or particular care about of course. Some store are even almost entire house brands, like Aldi stores are. What is problem here?
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Dec 26, 2018 06:42
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Media Bloodbath posted:Once the competitors are out of the way they'll raise prices. And as long as they aren’t it will lower prices.
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Dec 26, 2018 06:45
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nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:But there are many store out there where the house brand is the prominent ones, and not the other brands. For many product. Do you want this illegal, as it is not now? The house brand is always right next to other brands in my experience Like you're also just making a bad comparison since people will buy the first item in an Amazon listing but there may be a dozen different products at "premier eye level height", you understand that right?
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Dec 26, 2018 07:14
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QuarkJets posted:The house brand is always right next to other brands in my experience Next to other brand, on the high value shelf, and often placed in a slightly more desirable position, or with more product. This can be the better of available positions. The location other stores will put high bidder in. In still other store, house brand is put on less desirable shelves altogether. It is the same. People still buy product that is on lower/higher shelves or on prime shelf but not first they can see, it is just less often. Is allegation now that Amazon make it impossible to see second listing without huge efforts, to put it beyond scope of shelves? I remind you that in store in an Aldi store and others, almost entire store is house brand. Why is that ok for them but not other store? I do not see the complication here. Let me to show:  The curtain from Amazon in this particular search, is in the top results, next to other paid placements. There is another sponsoring message before you even seen the Amazon product. The Amazon shower curtain so has privileged place, but even if it was made very first result you would have seen, at least 2 different curtains. nepetaMisekiryoiki fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Dec 26, 2018 |
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Dec 26, 2018 07:44
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That's probably because France (or the EU) has laws enforcing fair promotion practices that the United States doesn't have; that's what you get for browsing amazon.fr. Here's what it looks like from the .com address, browsing on a computer located in Amurrica A whole row of Amazon products, shown right at the top of the page. Other shower curtains are are below that, after scrolling down.
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Dec 26, 2018 08:40
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QuarkJets posted:That's probably because France (or the EU) has laws enforcing fair promotion practices that the United States doesn't have; that's what you get for browsing amazon.fr. Here's what it looks like from the .com address, browsing on a computer located in Amurrica Maybe this has to do with the account or not account? Here is the attempt of Amazon.com US:   I had to do the Page Down to see the Amazon set. Here I try Amazon UK:   Maybe buyers changes, but Amazon product even more buried than American page? Is it an account issue? Maybe it matters addresses I used, famous buildings and friend's home. Still the situation seems highly variable.
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Dec 26, 2018 08:52
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*shrug* I used an incognito window from a US address, take that however you want but in general I see a shitload of Amazon Basics products right in my face as soon as I search for basically any item that has an AmazonBasics generic. That's the kind of behavior that people in this thread are talking about, this is not "oh I'm very concerned that Amazon lists their own products right next to competing products" and dude use timg come on man
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Dec 26, 2018 10:36
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All the badged stuff on the first screen of Amazon results is actually making the site less useable. You have to scroll down a bit to find whatever you are after. Could be a weakness. Covering a site with ads is generally a bad sign.
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Dec 26, 2018 13:18
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You can complain all you want but ultimately what it boils down to is that Amazon, the private company, can sell what they like and how they like on their store. If they want to put their product at the top of the list, that's their prerogative. Due to the nature of the service all vendors, regardless of whether a vendor is using Amazon to move their stuff, they're still in competition with Amazon itself. The only reason a grocery store doesn't literally stick all the store brand things to the front is mostly due to physical limitations of shelving if you want everything to be viable. Online doesn't have that issue. Regardless of how much product you have, it is always visible. At that point, order is entirely arbitrary as there's no display that needs to look "good" and if you don't think a company is going to put their product first, you haven't been paying attention. Like if Samsung started selling Iphones for whatever reason, I would not expect them to put Apple's product first on their website.
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Dec 26, 2018 13:25
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And besides as has been said unless they push everyone out of business and then raise prices on their products it’s not illegal. It’s kinda scummy on some level due to Amazons money and power but until it actually negatively effects the consumer there isn’t a problem.
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Dec 26, 2018 13:39
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