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Lightning Knight posted:Stockholm syndrome is defined as "a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity." (Wikipedia), which is not really the relationship soldiers have to the military. I don't think the relationship soldiers have with the military is healthy by any means, I just don't think that's an accurate description. Fair enough. I didn't know you were going to wikipedia me, but you are correct they aren't literally the exact same thing. I was talking in the larger psychological aspect but I guess that is a conversation for a different day. Although if you read that definition closely it might be more relevant than you think.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:34
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There goes Mr racist There goes Mr perv The only man who never seems To get what he deserves Oh Trump he loves his twitter cause he thinks it makes him smarter And grabbing women by the pussy surely makes him harder Oh There goes Mr balding There goes Mr small (hands) He cannot seem to find the cash To build himself a wall He charges folks a fortune for his cheap and gaudy towers When called out for his actions all he ever does is glower.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:36
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1glitch0 posted:Fair enough. I didn't know you were going to wikipedia me, but you are correct they aren't literally the exact same thing. I was talking in the larger psychological aspect but I guess that is a conversation for a different day. I mean yeah I think calling it Stockholm syndrome is probably within the realm of not technically accurate but rhetorically sound and I'm just being pedantic. 
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Dec 27, 2018 05:38
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LeeMajors posted:I grew up in a military fam and worked DoD in my early 20s. No, but I've noticed that people who haven't been through, or aren't personally close to people who have, seem to have a view of it that is along the lines of full metal jacket. I'm not saying that wasn't accurate, or that maybe the marines are still close to that (I don't know many and I never really asked), but while the approach of "break people down and build them back up" is still true, it isn't aimed at generating brain broken sociopaths. I'm not sure how to really explain this, but a large part of the goal is getting people to learn to follow orders, but also it isn't about being a mindless drone. It is more along the lines of realizing that there is a time and a place for input and discussion, and then there is a time and a place where doing what you're told is likely going to save your life or your squad's lives. Learning how to function as a team even if you don't exactly get along with everyone, poo poo like that. Most people I know didn't drastically change after going through basic, because they knew how to listen to orders and didn't assume that they already knew how to do stuff. The thing is, the military doesn't *want* your broke-brained sociopath, because they're the gently caress-ups. They take a ton of extra attention and effort and babysitting. Yea the military, especially as you get down to 'grunt' is going to have a larger number of .. poor thinkers, but if you take a survey of the population who score on testing at that range you're not going to find a wealth of free thinkers. Those people also aren't going to be moving that far along the promotion scale either.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:38
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My only point wrt stockholm syndrome was that they use abusive techniques to instill loyalty even when the healthy response would be to get the gently caress out (e.g., any war zone)
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Dec 27, 2018 05:45
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean yeah I think calling it Stockholm syndrome is probably within the realm of not technically accurate but rhetorically sound and I'm just being pedantic. This isn't just a rhetorical space, it's a discursive one. We should aspire to a higher standard than persuasive plausibility.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:48
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That's kinda the point. A military full of soldiers that always runs away from combat wouldn't be very good at its entire purpose.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:48
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Discendo Vox posted:This isn't just a rhetorical space, it's a discursive one. We should aspire to a higher standard than persuasive plausibility. Imagine Trump's face if you said this to him.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:49
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PerniciousKnid posted:Imagine Trump's face if you said this to him. He'd nod as if he understood and then talk about something unrelated. Trump wouldn't actually register confusion because his brain moves right past it so it never has to acknowledge that it happened. You didn't say words that confused him. You said how much you love Trump and his Wall. He plainly heard it.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:52
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PerniciousKnid posted:Imagine Trump's face if you said this to him.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:52
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PerniciousKnid posted:Imagine Trump's face if you said this to him. Aw, c'mon, I'm about to go to bed.
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Dec 27, 2018 05:59
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ZypherIM posted:Lots of military apologia I would never posit that the military is a monolith which is devoid of free thinkers or redeemable persons HOWEVER let me state that the central aim of reprogramming people to worship the chain of command without question is literally the horseshit that enables systematic genocide in myriad authoritarian societies and ‘just following orders’ is never a defense. I never suggested that Jeffrey Dahmer would be a rising star in the military—I am suggesting that a propensity for mindless sycophancy and brass-worship probably predisposes you for a career of military ballwashing. If you lack a conscience and can coolly execute kiddos in the name of Capitalism, then it’s an apparent feature and not a bug.
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Dec 27, 2018 06:11
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"guys, people like this shouldn't be identified and ruined because " I know projection is a big part of the modern conservative movement, but I love how easily offended they are when they go on their rants about how easily offended other people are.
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Dec 27, 2018 06:16
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There's gonna be a chapter in a history book titled "gently caress you, put me on Youtube."
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Dec 27, 2018 06:20
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Coxswain Balls posted:"guys, people like this shouldn't be identified and ruined because " Projection is just about all conservatives have left. They’ve whole heartedly embraced every single policy that goes against stated conservative values. Anti-privacy, pro government interfering in sex lives. Anti-feeding hungry kids. Anti-intellectual. Pro-war. Pro-corporate welfare. Anti-free market. They are held together with nothing but the glue of hate and spite. So they assume that everyone on the left is also like that and must be up to all the hypocritical and anti-democratic poo poo they get up to. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so macabre and resulted in actual harm to millions of people.
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Dec 27, 2018 06:30
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RasperFat posted:Projection is just about all conservatives have left. Fear. Don't forget fear, it's absolutely vital.
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Dec 27, 2018 06:35
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1078063724777349120 Troops continue to vote for Trump
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Dec 27, 2018 07:08
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They're standing next to the world's most despised man in a war zone. I congratulate them on their bravery for not hiding behind more armor
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Dec 27, 2018 07:13
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Abner Assington posted:poo poo, I know the guy on the far right. We used to be good pals, but now he's a giant CHUD. He's blowing up his Instagram feed with selfies of him/Trump/Sanders.  Well played if intentional.
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Dec 27, 2018 07:21
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Otteration posted:"We're going to lose both of our incomes right now. If we don't get back pay, that will be a significant impact. Healthcare, insurance all comes out of that check. That's really scary." I've heard a lot of right wingers wave off the damage of a shutdown on workers as trivial because they'll get back pay. I don't think they get that people have to find a way to live through it with no income while bills come due. Or they do understand it and just don't care because Big Daddy Trump did it. We used to have the dedicated crowd at Vlasic that always wanted a strike/shutdown. I always hated them cheering for it at meetings because "We'll get back pay for it after it ends". That's nice and all, but during the time we are striking how am I supposed to pay rent, buy groceries and pay bills?
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Dec 27, 2018 07:30
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mcmagic posted:Photos of troops having Dear Leader sign their MAGA Hats are pretty disturbing... Apparently, also a violation of military regulations involving partisan political activities. https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1078159001559302144
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Dec 27, 2018 07:40
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LeeMajors posted:HOWEVER let me state that the central aim of reprogramming people to worship the chain of command without question is literally the horseshit that enables systematic genocide in myriad authoritarian societies This is not how the US military structures itself.
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Dec 27, 2018 07:48
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1glitch0 posted:Fair enough. I didn't know you were going to wikipedia me, but you are correct they aren't literally the exact same thing. I was talking in the larger psychological aspect but I guess that is a conversation for a different day. It’s not just about literal definitions, but about accuracy the language of cause and effect. Stockholm’s pretty specific and I don’t think the analogy or comparison is a good one at all. I also get your point though and think something does occur that needs definition, I suspect we just lump it all under PTSD now.
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Dec 27, 2018 07:48
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SocketWrench posted:This is not how the US military structures itself. Yeah wtf. The military can gently caress you up in a lot of ways but when it comes to the army producing authoritarian shitheads the problem is mostly one of self-selection, like with cops but not as bad. The soldiers with MAGA hats were already chuds or chud adjacent when they joined. Typical Pubbie fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 08:00
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I guess technically nobody can prove Trump didn't say "make it 10%" at some point, but never followed through on it. That lie seems particularly bold though, even for him.
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Dec 27, 2018 08:37
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Typical Pubbie posted:Yeah wtf. The military can gently caress you up in a lot of ways but when it comes to the army producing authoritarian shitheads the problem is mostly one of self-selection, like with cops but not as bad. Right. Most people aren't joining the military to kill kids and training to become a good little authoritarian. They may prenaturally be or become more permissive of such things than we'd like, but it's generally not the motivation. Racial minorities and poor southern folk are overrepresented in the military not because bad folk, but it's just the best, socially approved opportunity following high school. There is probably mental or social conditioning in the military that doesn't translate well to the civilian life, but it's not like US training is a significant outlier. The hope is that most people can turn that mindset on and off, similar to football or MMA training or whatever. Doesn't always work that way, but the goal probably isn't to create a violent, demented subpopulation.
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Dec 27, 2018 08:49
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KingNastidon posted:Racial minorities and poor southern folk are overrepresented in the military not because bad folk, but it's just the best, socially approved opportunity following high school. Which, consequentially, is why it's pretty much the only jobs program in the US as well.
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Dec 27, 2018 10:28
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So, apparently I started a page long temperature derail with my avatar. That's nice. Whoever bought that made a good investment.
cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 10:54
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nm
Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 11:03
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Lycus posted:Were they cheering when he said 10%? They should know better than anyone if they got a 10% raise. They'll be on Fox a few years down the line about how President Trump gave them 10% but now president Clinton will only give them 2.8% and how if we vote for Ivanka Trump in the coming election then the US will again have a president that respects the troops.
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Dec 27, 2018 11:44
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mod sassinator posted:On a long enough timeline all things go to 0K. Oh clever
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Dec 27, 2018 11:47
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Not really, even in total heat death things will stay slightly above 0K.
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Dec 27, 2018 12:43
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Actually according to eternal optimist Issac Arthur we can live till essentially the end of all Baryonic matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pld8wTa16Jk
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Dec 27, 2018 12:48
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Also Fahrenheit is way better than Celsius even given the metric systems obvious supremacy in all other matters.
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Dec 27, 2018 12:50
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SocketWrench posted:This is not how the US military structures itself. I've always been told that the US Military is specifically made to avoid rigid authority chains. Like if your commanding officer dies the whole thing restructures around the next in line as opposed to the stereotypical 'shoot the leader and they'll all give up'. I think someone posted about that in the Irrationally Irritating Movie Moments thread about zombie movies where separated and isolated army squads turn to anarchy. It doesn't mean that wouldn't happen, but the training is meant to specifically avoid that.
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Dec 27, 2018 13:19
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1078260814157701121
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Dec 27, 2018 13:25
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It's weird how people repeat this, like it's some inherent biological thing that people count in base ten, when it's so easy to find major cultures that don't do that. romans didn't count in base ten, and sumerians and egyptians don't either. (nor do lots of other groups, but like, we still use stuff like roman numerals and sumerian base 60 time keeping) Even english has weird vestiges where we named two numbers to come after ten but then just happen to remap them back onto base ten after the fact. counting on fingers makes a lot more sense than counting on knuckles. STAC Goat posted:He'd nod as if he understood and then talk about something unrelated. Trump wouldn't actually register confusion because his brain moves right past it so it never has to acknowledge that it happened. You didn't say words that confused him. You said how much you love Trump and his Wall. He plainly heard it. it's like when he was on hugh hewitt's radio show and hewitt asked him about general soleimani and trump is all yeah i know who he is but go on. and hewitt says he leads the quds force and trump starts talking about the kurds. when this was brought up at a debate his excuse was hewitt said a bunch of arab names (soleimani being persian of course) and nobody else would've been able to keep it all straight lmao Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 13:33
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Sounds like a threat nice try Donnie Dumbshit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCutOI9F8Ws&t=74s GoutPatrol fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 13:35
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Anecdotal I know, but of the five close friends I grew up with who went into the military in the early 2000s (class of 2001), two started out left leaning and stayed that way and three starting out right leaning swung way the gently caress left. Marines, Army, and Airforce. The one that became an officer and dealt with a lot of Iraqi interpreters and various US and foreign contractors in particular 180'd entirely. I think what military personnel experience during their tenure has a lot more to do with it than the training up front.
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Dec 27, 2018 13:41
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Will someone ask him how the steel slats stop drugs when you can just hand them through?
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Dec 27, 2018 13:44
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