Babylon Astronaut posted:OK, so you really don't know what profit is. You're describing an expense, specifically labor costs. Go look up what profit is. sir a profit is revenue minus expenses. the profit is their income
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Dec 29, 2018 21:14
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I feel partially responsible for this derail.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I feel partially responsible for this derail. Derail from what?
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Dec 29, 2018 21:16
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Krispy Wafer posted:Is this thread full of 12 year olds? I can only assume we're under an hour from the dreaded foodchat.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:16
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KingNastidon posted:sir a profit is revenue minus expenses. the profit is their income
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Dec 29, 2018 21:18
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Babylon Astronaut posted:OK, so you really don't know what profit is. You're describing an expense, specifically labor costs. Go look up what profit is. Under socialism workers get to split the profit instead of the person who provided the capital taking it all home. The whole loving point of socialism is that the workers get to enjoy the fruits of their labor.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:19
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"It's a slow news day," they say, as the shutdown enters the 8th day, Trump tweets that those kids deserved to die, and a newborn baby sets a new weight record.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:20
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Under socialism workers get to split the profit instead of the person who provided the capital taking it all home. The whole loving point of socialism is that the workers get to enjoy the fruits of their labor. Babylon Astronaut fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 21:21
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Tibalt posted:"It's a slow news day," they say, as the shutdown enters the 8th day, Trump tweets that those kids deserved to die, and a newborn baby sets a new weight record. Fuckin USA heavyweight champs!
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Dec 29, 2018 21:21
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Tibalt posted:"It's a slow news day," they say, as the shutdown enters the 8th day, Trump tweets that those kids deserved to die, and a newborn baby sets a new weight record. Yeah I saw that fat baby thing. But I would imagine a woman carrying triplets carries more weight in baby than that.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:21
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Babylon Astronaut posted:If it's dispersed in such a way, its an expense and not profit. You pay everyone a salary throughout the year as an expense and then you split the profit up among the workers at the end of the fiscal year. How is this hard to understand?
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Dec 29, 2018 21:22
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Tibalt posted:a newborn baby sets a new weight record. Hit the diet coke button a few too many times?
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Dec 29, 2018 21:22
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So when we can expect the government to reopen? Because I can seriously imagine Trump keeping it closed for an entire year just because he's that much of an rear end
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Dec 29, 2018 21:23
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:You pay everyone a salary throughout the year as an expense and then you split the profit up among the workers at the end of the fiscal year. How is this hard to understand?
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Dec 29, 2018 21:24
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The point that the Stockholm syndrome capitalists in this thread are failing to see or willfully ignoring is that services that are essential to basic human needs, like healthcare and a justice system are inherently poisoned by capitalism and profit seeking behavior. If you fail to see how then I don't know what hope there is for you. Also, people who aspire for a better and more equal system aren't twelve or whatever dumb poo poo you're implying.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:25
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Willo567 posted:So when we can expect the government to reopen? Because I can seriously imagine Trump keeping it closed for an entire year just because he's that much of an rear end No earlier than the 3rd. Then it becomes a staring contest where the Dems have the luxury of not needing to blink.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:26
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quote:If it's dispersed in such a way, its an expense and not profit. That is why we say the whole loving point of socialism is removing the profit motive, not stopping business from maximizing revenue. A GIANT PARSNIP posted:You pay everyone a salary throughout the year as an expense and then you split the profit up among the workers at the end of the fiscal year. How is this hard to understand? It would be swell if you could both define terms so you could actually debate how you want society to operate instead of dancing in circles? It sounds like both of you are socialists but are having difficulty agreeing on how to talk about it.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:27
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Tibalt posted:"It's a slow news day," they say, as the shutdown enters the 8th day, Trump tweets that those kids deserved to die, and a newborn baby sets a new weight record. He's at least 35.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:27
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Yeah, it pretty much turned into the exact same thing that happened with the war on drugs. On top of it, drinking and alcoholism rates had fallen sharply decades before due to other social and economic pressures, so there was a big dose of people today still trying harder and faster laws to fight the 1980s crime wave.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:28
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Monaghan posted:With this logic everyone who charges for a service is inherently immoral. So close, and yet....
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Dec 29, 2018 21:29
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Monaghan posted:With this logic everyone who charges for a service is inherently immoral. I mean, yea
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Dec 29, 2018 21:31
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Ok, in the accounting sense, profit is undispersed revenue at the end of an accounting period. He's using it to describe all excess revenue, even if it's used to pay expenses, which is tacitly not what it means. People do this all the time, and it's why we call the excess revenue produced by a transaction a contribution margin and not a profit margin because expenses have not yet been taken out. Labor is an expense. No money paid out for expenses is profit. Socialist production, again, by its very definition disperses all revenue. So it does not have a profit motive.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:31
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Babylon Astronaut posted:If it's dispersed in such a way, its an expense and not profit. That is why we say the whole loving point of socialism is removing the profit motive, not stopping business from maximizing revenue. Think of how dumb you would sound if you called all expenses profit. "We spent our profit on goods to sell." No, that's not what that means. Babylon Astronaut posted:How is it hard to understand that money paid to employees is by definition NOT PROFIT. It is a pre-tax EXPENSE. I think you just don't understand the concept of employee ownership and believe someone has to be either an employee or a shareholder but never both.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:31
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Nope. Read my edit. If you squint, it could be profit disbursed as owners equity, but that is something I am opposed to. Nothing stops business owners from paying themselves a wage like everyone else. revenue minus expenses equals equity, not necessary profit. For the third time, learn what profit is. No, equity is the one's current financial position associated with the value of an asset. If a plumber charges $1000 for an 8-hour service and it costs them $600 in parts then their profit is $400. They could invest $200 in better tools for their company (an asset, equity) and take a wage of $25/hr. But revenue minus expenses for an individual service is still the profit. What to do with that profit is a separate issue.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:32
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AOC, noted immoral individual for accepting payment for her work
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Dec 29, 2018 21:33
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The issue with Randazza and Popehat for me is that, well, beyond Randazza being a Nazi (and he super is, if he was just a lawyer for them I wouldn't necessarily say but he parties with them and shills for them outside of his job) is that he both puffs up Randazza as a "badass" free speech lover despite the dude being the biggest hypocrite ever about it, and also he KNOWS Randazza is a gigantic corrupt scumbucket because he was Randazza's lawyer during one of the few times he actually got in mild trouble for his blatant corruption and Popehat doesn't seem to think that has anything to do with him.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:33
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Koalas Massacre posted:Let's list the many things throughout American history that yts don't give a gently caress about hurting black people and other minorities until they realize it is or could happen to a white person. I'll start: drug addiction and the opiod epidemic. The "deep state."
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Dec 29, 2018 21:34
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Aha, figured it out: the thing Ken White represented Randazza in started a number of years ago and was about him suing a client who fired him for, uh, being a hilariously unethical dirtbag but in non-Nazi ways. (seriously, worth reading about) It got revisited by the Huffpo because in recent months he's weaseled out of meaningful punishment in multiple ethics hearings. Incidentally, it appears that one of the things leading Randazza to reinvent himself as Number One Lawyer Among Fascists was the original Liberty fiasco deservedly trashing his wallet and client list.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:34
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Priapus Unbound posted:AOC, noted immoral individual for accepting payment for her work No one has said this.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:35
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Ok, in the accounting sense, profit is undispersed revenue at the end of an accounting period. He's using it to describe all excess revenue, even if it's used to pay expenses, which is tacitly not what it means. People do this all the time, and it's why we call the excess revenue produced by a transaction a contribution margin and not a profit margin because expenses have not yet been taken out. Labor is an expense. No money paid out for expenses is profit. "Undispersed revenue at the end of an accounting period" is a sentence that doesn't mean anything. Profit is what you get after you take your revenue minus your expenses minus any applicable taxes for a given period of time. If a company is employee owned the wages paid to those employees is counted as an expense, and then your profit at the end of your accounting period can either be kept as retained earnings or can be distributed to your shareholders. In the case of a socialist system, you're paying those employees their wages as an expense during the year, and then you distribute the profits to those same employees at year end.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:35
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Priapus Unbound posted:AOC, noted immoral individual for accepting payment for her work Indeed, there is no such thing as ethical participation in a capitalist system. But there is a difference between, say, attempting to dismantle that system from within its framework and gleefully exploiting others under the guise of business as usual
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Dec 29, 2018 21:38
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Your current financial position is exactly what you made minus what you owe. This is basic managerial accounting. You can use that position to reinvest, or take it as profit. Profit is retained or disbursed as owners equity. Whoever the owner is. If you disburse it to the workers, it is an expense. Babylon Astronaut fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Dec 29, 2018 |
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Dec 29, 2018 21:38
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:You pay everyone a salary throughout the year as an expense and then you split the profit up among the workers at the end of the fiscal year. How is this hard to understand? Okay so where do companies invest in expanding, R&D, and other costs or is this one of those pipe dreams where communist and libertarian fetishists intersect their utopian MAXIMUM DEMOCRACY THE PEOPLE WILL COLLECTIVELY DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR MONEY things that have no basis in reality Like every idea I've seen touted would have like 30,000+ people vote on every business decision (lol) or appoint people to make choices which takes you into the same status quo
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Dec 29, 2018 21:39
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Priapus Unbound posted:AOC, noted immoral individual for accepting payment for her work it's more that capitalism is an inherently immoral system that forces us to behave in immoral ways to survive and the main focus of 'this is immoral' is about that rather than literally 'some rando selling pie is basically Hitler'.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:40
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DrNutt posted:Oh you're a lawyer and you're being pedantic. you missed the obvious "but i repeat myself" joke, please Do Better
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Dec 29, 2018 21:42
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Your current financial position is exactly what you made minus what you owe. This is basic managerial accounting. You can use that position to reinvest, or take it as profit. Your current financial position is found on your balance sheet - it's your equity which is your assets minus your liabilities. You're talking about the income statement, which shows your period revenue minus expenses. The income statement is helpful to see how you did in any given period, but great companies can have a garbage income statement and still be great, while lovely companies can have a great period and still be garbage. Your current financial position is absolutely not "what you made minus what you owe".
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Dec 29, 2018 21:42
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Remember when Nancy and Chuck offered Trump buttload of money for his border poo poo, as long as they included a DACA fix, the president almost agreed to it, and then Stephen Miller got mad DACA people might not be deported so he blew the whole thing up and now we are here?
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Dec 29, 2018 21:43
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Wilhelm posted:Okay so where do companies invest in expanding, R&D, and other costs or is this one of those pipe dreams where communist and libertarian fetishists intersect their utopian MAXIMUM DEMOCRACY THE PEOPLE WILL COLLECTIVELY DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR MONEY things that have no basis in reality appointing people does not take you into the same status quo unless you seriously flubbed your charter or equivalent just having "we want to maximize the well-being of our workers and maybe society" as what you're optimizing for is significantly different than "we want to maximize the money our shareholders get"
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Dec 29, 2018 21:44
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Bizarro Watt posted:Didn't Obama do this too at some point? Not to draw some false equivalency or anything. I remember most here being pretty pissed about that too because the reasoning was so dumb ("gotta tighten our belts"). Yup; in 2010 he proposed a two-year pay freeze (that Congress ended up extending to three years). quote:“The hard truth is that getting this deficit under control is going to require some broad sacrifice, and that sacrifice must be shared by employees of the federal government,” Mr. Obama told reporters. He called federal workers “patriots who love their country” but added, “I’m asking civil servants to do what they’ve always done” for the nation.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:44
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What you made (own) is an asset, what you owe is a liability. When you subtract the two you get equity. We're not in disagreement.
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Dec 29, 2018 21:45
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