|
Solkanar512 posted:2. Amazon has to be power to easily kill off anyone that could possibly out innovate them if otherwise allowed to develop. How are you proposing they have that power? Specifically?
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 15:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:06 |
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:How are you proposing they have that power? Specifically? Ditto for every other company with 5% market share.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
PT6A posted:If other retailers want to compete with Amazon, they just have to add free two-day shipping even if it means raising their prices to compensate. I'd guess most people don't look at the monthly/annual cost of Prime or much of the additional stuff, they just want to have poo poo soon without the psychological "hit" of paying extra for express shipping. Most of the major online retailers offer free 2-day shipping over a certain threshold, same as Amazon. Target and Walmart offer free 2-day shipping regardless of price during the holidays. I get the feeling most of you haven’t shopped online at places that aren’t Amazon lately.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 18:23
|
|
|
TyroneGoldstein posted:I really don't think he's 'right' in the head. I think that kidnapping back in the day did a number on him and we're just watching the story play out. I don't think that I'm outside the pale if I say that being a money-obsessed, power-mongering, Ayn Rand-worshipping sociopath with a God complex is a legitimate mental illness.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 18:36
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:How are you proposing they have that power? Specifically? Buying them out or underbidding. Also love that you ignored the first point completely.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 18:46
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:I don't think that I'm outside the pale if I say that being a money-obsessed, power-mongering, Ayn Rand-worshipping sociopath with a God complex is a legitimate mental illness. https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/12/radicals-dont-evaluate-their-mistakes-very-effectively/
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 18:46
|
|
|
FCKGW posted:Most of the major online retailers offer free 2-day shipping over a certain threshold, same as Amazon. They are losing their rear end on that though. Amazon has it pretty good by tying it to a membership cost to help offset the costs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 18:53
|
|
|
I dont see any way to explain Lampert’s actions at this point unless he really believes, however wrongly, that he can return Sears to retail profitability. Nobody seem to show the math by which throwing money at a business as it rapidly pisses said money away somehow gets you more money in the end. One possibility is that he saw Sears Hometown as the future of the company’s B&M operations and planned to gradually shift the supply chain over to it. But Sears Hometown is basically RadioShack for consumer durables and it’s losing money as well. I think he’s sort of like Jay Gould with the Erie and Union Pacific railroads, convinced that he could “save” the business with his bag of financial tricks while learning (maybe) the operating aspects as he goes. Gould eventually got it right in his later career but Lampert hasn’t learned anything and I don’t see him getting that chance.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 21:22
|
|
|
Lampert's plan, in its most generous interpretation, is that Sears' real estate is worth more than Sears' stores.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 22:14
|
|
|
OneEightHundred posted:Lampert's plan, in its most generous interpretation, is that Sears' real estate is worth more than Sears' stores. Seritage, the Sears real estate company, is also losing money btw.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 22:38
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:Buying them out or underbidding. Then what happens?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2018 23:50
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Then what happens? I’m not going to hold your loving hand when you’re going to be this disingenuous dude.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 15:13
|
|
|
Step one: Acquire 4.4 billion dollars to buy Sears, a company you already own. Step two: ascend to godhood after proving you can fleece the rich as well as you can fleece rubes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 15:41
|
|
|
Hand Row posted:They are losing their rear end on that though. Amazon has it pretty good by tying it to a membership cost to help offset the costs. FCKGW posted:I get the feeling most of you haven't shopped online at places that aren't Amazon lately. One thing I've noticed with Amazon is that even with Prime, their thing over this year at least has been making sure that every step of the way to let you know you can drop an extra whatever amount of money to get same day delivery (This is separate from ordering something through their Prime Now app/site). I tried that a couple of times to see how it went and, low and behold, despite it being guaranteed if you order within the next ten hours or whatever window, in both instances the product didn't even ship out til the next morning. And there was no notification of there being an issue or anything - in both instances it's like they just charged and extra amount of money for absolutely nothing. I got a full refund in each case but I can't be that unlucky and I'm just one person so I can only imagine. Meanwhile yesterday we ordered something off Best Buy of all places because it was way cheaper than what Amazon had, and it was a way better experience than going into one of their stores and they offered same day delivery for free so we were like okay sure and it was great. I know it's just anecdotal but my wife and I have used Amazon so much less over the past year and a half or so, we used to be basically Amazombies like we'd get almost anything that wasn't groceries through it but they're just not the cheapest deal in town anymore and their shipping is inconsistent. Like, if you told me five years ago that I'd be having a more convenient experience with Best Buy than with Amazon I'd have laughed but here we are, the only reason to have Prime is for the instant video/tv shows if you really need that. We keep it for that because we like cheesy martial arts movies and trashy European movies made from the late 60s to mid 80s, so in a way their selection was specifically made for us, but they're even starting to lose some of those, and if anything else about their streaming got worse or more expensive again we'd just drop Amazon completely. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Dec 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 15:53
|
|
|
They are almost always cheaper for me but that’s probably because I live in a more rural area.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 16:02
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:One thing I've noticed with Amazon is that even with Prime, their thing over this year at least has been making sure that every step of the way to let you know you can drop an extra whatever amount of money to get same day delivery (This is separate from ordering something through their Prime Now app/site). I tried that a couple of times to see how it went and, low and behold, despite it being guaranteed if you order within the next ten hours or whatever window, in both instances the product didn't even ship out til the next morning. And there was no notification of there being an issue or anything - in both instances it's like they just charged and extra amount of money for absolutely nothing. I got a full refund in each case but I can't be that unlucky and I'm just one person so I can only imagine. Meanwhile yesterday we ordered something off Best Buy of all places because it was way cheaper than what Amazon had, and it was a way better experience than going into one of their stores and they offered same day delivery for free so we were like okay sure and it was great. I’ve had numerous shipping issues with Amazon as well. Packages simply getting lost in the mail, ship dates slipping for no reason and so on. I feel like there are some serious issues with their last mile tracking and delivery systems.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 17:19
|
|
|
The folks delivering your packages out of their 2003 Hyundai Elantra didn't tip you off?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 17:35
|
|
|
Amazon is getting worse and worse and it doesn't make a lot of sense.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
It does when you realize they only exist to make as much profit as they can and they’re top of the food chain. It happens to all the big companies that get to the top and think they’re unstoppable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 17:47
|
|
|
poo poo POST MALONE posted:The folks delivering your packages out of their 2003 Hyundai Elantra didn't tip you off? In my own cases the last mile is fine, the issue is always them actually getting the package shipped in the first place to meet the time they're guaranteeing (regardless of which option I choose). And for an online retailer that's, uh,  I mean it makes sense of course but it just feels like such a sudden dip happened with them relative to how long they've been big.
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Dec 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 17:58
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:One thing I've noticed with Amazon is that even with Prime, their thing over this year at least has been making sure that every step of the way to let you know you can drop an extra whatever amount of money to get same day delivery (This is separate from ordering something through their Prime Now app/site). I tried that a couple of times to see how it went and, low and behold, despite it being guaranteed if you order within the next ten hours or whatever window, in both instances the product didn't even ship out til the next morning. And there was no notification of there being an issue or anything - in both instances it's like they just charged and extra amount of money for absolutely nothing. I got a full refund in each case but I can't be that unlucky and I'm just one person so I can only imagine. Meanwhile yesterday we ordered something off Best Buy of all places because it was way cheaper than what Amazon had, and it was a way better experience than going into one of their stores and they offered same day delivery for free so we were like okay sure and it was great. Yeah I did nearly all my Christmas shopping from Target and BestBuy this year because they were both cheaper and faster than Amazon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 19:02
|
|
|
I just checked BestBuy for the things I've bought after Christmas on Amazon.ca and the price is literally exactly the same.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 19:04
|
|
|
PT6A posted:I just checked BestBuy for the things I've bought after Christmas on Amazon.ca and the price is literally exactly the same. I don't doubt it. Now you know why losing the 20% discount for new games on physical media was the deal-breaker for me; almost everyone sells those at the common MSRP except for Walmart who think that reducing $59.99 to $59.88 is somehow meaningful. Despite the lower production cost of not having packaging or a disc/cartridge, the digital versions of those same games, again, almost always cost exactly the same with the exception of perhaps digital PC games on GreenManGaming. I realise that "value" is a completely relative concept, but having a discount like that is a major selling point. A lot of games, especially anything by Nintendo and particularly for the bloody Switch, decrease in price on the second-hand market very slowly and very little and also rarely go on sale, usually only after a year or more. I might only buy six brand new "AAA" games per year, but that was nearly $80 savings and that means a lot, especially considering the other benefits of Prime. If they are offering other perks in other areas and people still think that that is worthwhile, I'm not stopping them from keeping the service. However, I think that I've made my case and I stand by the logic, assuming a consumer decision is ever logical, of my decision to not renew. Increasing the cost a sharp 20% and reducing a unique and significant discount to "$10 gift voucher for more stuff only from us - major restrictions apply" is kind of a slap in the face from a ludicrously profitable company whose record of employee exploitation is bad even among major corporations. Frankly, I think that the people who are trying to convince others that this isn't just a cynical and calculated effort to increase profits at the expense of benefits and service are really trying to convince themselves. Corporations don't exist to "create jobs" or "make customers happy" - their only goal is to make as much money as possible. Trying to insist otherwise is naïve in a way that nobody over age 8 should be.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 19:36
|
|
|
On one hand, you can ask "well, if they're the same price, why would you buy from Amazon?" but I could equally ask, "if they're the same price, why wouldn't I buy from Amazon?" It's a 10-second operation because they already have my CC number and address, and I've never had a problem with the delivery services they use.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 19:39
|
|
|
I used to be an Amazonbie as well. Every week I was over filling my recycling with broken down cardboard boxes. The main reason I stopped buying so much poo poo through Amazon is because I have been burned too often on the trickiness of their shipping challenges: ships late, gets delivered to another house, etc. I work from home so I am not worried about someone stealing packages off my porch, but I still get really nervous about the delivery. For Christmas I ordered an expensive gift for my husband off Amazon that was a few hundred dollars and the USPS delivered it a block away to the wrong house. Not Amazon's fault, but Amazon doesn't have a way of making me feel good about ensuring that doesn't happen again in the future. The other thing is the fact I have been burned too often on the questionable quality of various items being repackaged by resellers through Amazon. It makes me very mistrustful of everything I purchase through Amazon now. Even if it says very clearly that it will be fulfilled through Amazon. It is really weird how torn I am on whether to continue my Prime subscription because of these bad experiences.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 21:05
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:
Yes they are trying to make money and will price Prime appropriately to maximize their gains. The one thing I would argue is this doesn’t mean they want to put it as a highest price. Prime is more valuable generally at the lowest price they can get away so people will stick with them. Basically same reason Amazon devices aren’t profitable but all the poo poo people buy on them certainly is. Shipping costs have also exploded so they need to cover their costs. You no longer seeing the value in it just means you were an outlier in their membership loss analysis, but obviously you are a small minority. Also to think hey they make a lot of money they should offer me a product for less is pretty naive. Any unit at a corporation trying to operate like that would get cut or fired pretty fast. Takes extreme situations or huge secondary benefits to pull that off. Also everybody should be looking at alternatives right now instead of shopping at Amazon. Those companies are sacrificing profits trying to compete with Amazon so you can get some sweetass deals. In general I even like looking at struggling companies as they will try to do some huge discount trying to get you to be a regular shopper with them. Edit: You want sold by Amazon, not fulfilled. Fulfilled can just mean a reseller sent some of their sketch inventory there, Amazon doesn’t own the inventory. Hand Row fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 21:15
|
|
|
Hand Row posted:Yes they are trying to make money and will price Prime appropriately to maximize their gains. The one thing I would argue is this doesn’t mean they want to put it as a highest price. Prime is more valuable generally at the lowest price they can get away so people will stick with them. Basically same reason Amazon devices aren’t profitable but all the poo poo people buy on them certainly is. Shipping costs have also exploded so they need to cover their costs. You no longer seeing the value in it just means you were an outlier in their membership loss analysis, but obviously you are a small minority. Also to think hey they make a lot of money they should offer me a product for less is pretty naive. Any unit at a corporation trying to operate like that would get cut or fired pretty fast. Takes extreme situations or huge secondary benefits to pull that off. I disagree that Prime, or anything, is more valuable at a lower price. If the boffins see that they sell 1.1 million subscriptions (obviously a very low number used for comparison purposes) at $100 US per but predict with their algorithms that they will only lose 10% of customers and sell 1 million at $120 per, then they have a fiduciary duty to do the latter because it's more profitable. I don't know how one could find the numbers for it, but I am sure that tens if not hundreds of thousands of people have decided to not renew their subscriptions due to rising cost and shrinking benefits, but obviously they won't trumpet that from the rooftops. Furthermore, Amazon is a frighteningly huge company that has many, many revenue streams; they can very easily afford to operate at neutral returns or even a modest loss in one area. They are ridiculously profitable and certainly aren't spending those profits on paying the people who do the real work, as we all know. Also, just having Amazon means people buy more stuff from them. If you were to buy a loved one a Prime subscription as a gift, they would inevitably buy things on Amazon due to convenience that they might normally buy at a brick and mortar store. Amazon know doubt know that and plan on it when projecting revenue.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
Your latter argument is exactly what I meant. $120 may generate more money directly than $100, but the higher membership numbers lead to more overall sales than $120. So generally the sweet spot tends to be revenue neutral for membership fees, at least based on what I have read about Costco’s model and analysis I have done on rewards programs for other retailers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 23:06
|
|
|
Instead of just talking about Amazon, let's talk about the one e-commerce website that is probably as well known in its niche, and yet doesn't really behave anything like Amazon: B&H Photo. Every photographer I've ever talked to, pro or amateur, has bought poo poo from them, and they have a great selection of new and used stuff for photography, any kind of A/V stuff, and so on. And as far as I know, they run the entire thing out of one store in New York. They have rather effectively proven that you can, in fact, compete against Amazon and win. I don't know a single person who would buy a lens from Amazon Prime, but I know people who've had obscure poo poo rush-shipped across the goddamn world from B&H. For all its "creating a market" and "monopolizing search results" Amazon hasn't been able to do comparably in that market, and I doubt they're interested in trying. It turns out that expertise and variety of product can in fact allow you to beat Amazon, but most retailers don't really want to go that route because it's expensive and difficult.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 23:12
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Instead of just talking about Amazon, let's talk about the one e-commerce website that is probably as well known in its niche, and yet doesn't really behave anything like Amazon: B&H Photo. Every photographer I've ever talked to, pro or amateur, has bought poo poo from them, and they have a great selection of new and used stuff for photography, any kind of A/V stuff, and so on. And as far as I know, they run the entire thing out of one store in New York. I bought a lens from Prime. When I bought my first grown up camera body and lens I looked at forum discussions online and tons of them had links to Amazon. Maybe once you cross a second threshold into "I'm now a grownup and know my poo poo" then you transition to more reputable retailers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2018 23:37
|
|
|
I bought every single christmas item i needed on amazon in the span of an hour, can't compete with that really.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Instead of just talking about Amazon, let's talk about the one e-commerce website that is probably as well known in its niche, and yet doesn't really behave anything like Amazon: B&H Photo. Every photographer I've ever talked to, pro or amateur, has bought poo poo from them, and they have a great selection of new and used stuff for photography, any kind of A/V stuff, and so on. And as far as I know, they run the entire thing out of one store in New York. Sweetwater has a good rep for guitar retail for the same reason. They understand instruments are kind of unique objects and actually have stats for individual guitars in their warehouse like weight (which vary even between guitars of the same model) and not just have a stock photo, but the actual instrument you're buying. They also inspect them before they go out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 00:14
|
|
|
LeoMarr posted:I bought every single christmas item i needed on amazon in the span of an hour, can't compete with that really.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 00:55
|
|
|
Cicero posted:My mom has a bunch of grandkids, she gave up trying to actually pick presents for them all years ago, now she just gives her kids/kids-in-law a budget for each grandchild and then they send her amazon links to order poo poo. honestly it makes sense, if you arent with the times on shoes and video games etc your better off just putting it in your kids hands to figure out what will make them happy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 01:01
|
|
|
Cicero posted:My mom has a bunch of grandkids, she gave up trying to actually pick presents for them all years ago, now she just gives her kids/kids-in-law a budget for each grandchild and then they send her amazon links to order poo poo. I used to circle things in the toys r us/sears christmas catalog/fliers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 01:06
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Instead of just talking about Amazon, let's talk about the one e-commerce website that is probably as well known in its niche, and yet doesn't really behave anything like Amazon: B&H Photo. Every photographer I've ever talked to, pro or amateur, has bought poo poo from them, and they have a great selection of new and used stuff for photography, any kind of A/V stuff, and so on. And as far as I know, they run the entire thing out of one store in New York. They also have infinite radio ads that change basically every month.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 01:24
|
|
|
Minenfeld! posted:They also have infinite radio ads that change basically every month. I only ever heard about them through word-of-mouth, being in Canada. Speaking of which, they're really good about knowing customs regulations and figuring out whatever needs to be done, so you don't receive a giant bill from FedEx for brokerage upon delivery.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 01:36
|
|
|
I gotta say JC Penney being on the cusp of disintegration is good for my bottom line when I want clothing in a 2XTall at better prices than an online retailer, but it's also depressing and clearly it's going the way of Sears. Macy's and Nordstrom were doing quite well despite that they have nothing over XL. JC Penney had literally no one working the floor this weekend. Macy's/Nordstrom remain "cool" places to shop, while impending doom hangs in the air at Penney's. I have no idea what I'm going to do when JCP dissolves if I want to see the clothes before I buy them. Amazon's offerings in clothing are still fairly lovely, and their "Amazon Wardrobe" feature is basically just reminding you of what their return policy is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 03:02
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:If the boffins see that they sell 1.1 million subscriptions (obviously a very low number used for comparison purposes) at $100 US per but predict with their algorithms that they will only lose 10% of customers and sell 1 million at $120 per, then they have a fiduciary duty to do the latter because it's more profitable. This is some bizarro world bullshit. Corporations don’t have a responsibility to maximize their quarterly profits over all else. Short-sighted business decisions are the result of short-sighted C-levels, not regulations that would prevent them from implementing loss leaders, R&D, or loving paid vacation. Baronash fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Dec 31, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 03:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:06 |
|
|
Sodomy Hussein posted:I gotta say JC Penney being on the cusp of disintegration is good for my bottom line when I want clothing in a 2XTall at better prices than an online retailer, but it's also depressing and clearly it's going the way of Sears. Macy's and Nordstrom were doing quite well despite that they have nothing over XL. JC Penney had literally no one working the floor this weekend. Macy's/Nordstrom remain "cool" places to shop, while impending doom hangs in the air at Penney's. I have no idea what I'm going to do when JCP dissolves if I want to see the clothes before I buy them. Amazon's offerings in clothing are still fairly lovely, and their "Amazon Wardrobe" feature is basically just reminding you of what their return policy is. Go to a menswear store, then? I do some work on the side for one, his main problem is that people have stopped wanting to see the clothes in-person ahead of time. These stores still exist, it's just that you'll have to find a local store whose name you don't recognize immediately.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2018 03:12
|
|