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Arist posted:
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Dec 30, 2018 23:19
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Ten thousand years can give you SUCH a CRICK in the NECK!
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| # ? May 13, 2024 12:58 |
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Hunt11 posted:I love the Igor twist as it takes advantage of the fact of a VA change to slip in a traitor who you could never expect but at the same time was hinted at since the very beginning.
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Dec 30, 2018 23:29
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Hunt11 posted:I love the Igor twist as it takes advantage of the fact of a VA change to slip in a traitor who you could never expect but at the same time was hinted at since the very beginning.
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Dec 30, 2018 23:29
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Hunt11 posted:I love the Igor twist as it takes advantage of the fact of a VA change to slip in a traitor who you could never expect but at the same time was hinted at since the very beginning. And it was hinted at in the very beginning: This line right here was the hint that something is off and this isn't Igor... because in the previous games, the real Igor welcomes you to the Velvet Room, and treats you as a guest, but never actually claims ownership of it.
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Dec 30, 2018 23:34
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 Oh no, the LP has become sentient and doesn't want to end.  Hunt11 posted:I love the Igor twist as it takes advantage of the fact of a VA change to slip in a traitor who you could never expect but at the same time was hinted at since the very beginning. Yeah, that's a pretty neat use of a new VA.
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Dec 30, 2018 23:40
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I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone saw Akechi's betrayal coming, but I don't think anyone saw this twist coming.
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Dec 30, 2018 23:41
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I read this in this voice.
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Dec 30, 2018 23:53
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone saw Akechi's betrayal coming, but I don't think anyone saw this twist coming. I mean once you got to the end of the game and he started talking like nyarlathotep it became kind of obvious but he acted normal-ish before then.
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Dec 31, 2018 00:03
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Not Igor's kind of playing with tilted scales, here. The reason everyone's rejecting the Phantom Thieves is that there's still evil out there that the righteous aren't really equipped to fight. Or is it more that, given the choice between righteousness and evil, everyone immediately sided with evil?
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Dec 31, 2018 00:40
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Glazius posted:Not Igor's kind of playing with tilted scales, here. The reason everyone's rejecting the Phantom Thieves is that there's still evil out there that the righteous aren't really equipped to fight. well it's more the choice between fighting and ducking their head and pretending nothing's wrong, they chose the latter.
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Dec 31, 2018 00:45
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I wish this twist hadnt been spoiled for me when I first played the game. But it is very neat. Also Holy grail/Igor never fused any persona himself.
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Dec 31, 2018 01:20
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So it turns out the guy keeping you in a metaphorical prison for a crime you didn't commit was a bad dude! Who knew?
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Dec 31, 2018 01:34
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So if I'm getting this right, Fake Igor's plan is to test whether humanity wants to destroy itself or not by having a chosen champion struggle to influence people to be better? Isn't that basically what Izanami was trying to do in P4 (which was also what Phil and Nyarly did in P2)?
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Dec 31, 2018 01:55
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Miz Kriss posted:There was a whole lot I wasn't expecting in this game, and Igor being fake the whole time was one of them. Hunt11 posted:I love the Igor twist as it takes advantage of the fact of a VA change to slip in a traitor who you could never expect but at the same time was hinted at since the very beginning. Funky Valentine posted:This is the most relevant Igor has ever actually been to the plot of a Persona game. loving love Fiona Apple posted:I think it's pretty safe to say that everyone saw Akechi's betrayal coming, but I don't think anyone saw this twist coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFVj0Z6ahcI&t=45s https://i.imgur.com/UdxCgiS.mp4
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Dec 31, 2018 02:01
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amigolupus posted:So if I'm getting this right, Fake Igor's plan is to test whether humanity wants to destroy itself or not by having a chosen champion struggle to influence people to be better? Isn't that basically what Izanami was trying to do in P4 (which was also what Phil and Nyarly did in P2)? Izanami just wanted to give humanity what it thought it wanted, regardless of what it was. Nyarlathotep had a bet with Philemon over whether humanity would show its better side or its worst when the chips were down. Unlike Izanami both wanted their side to win, which is why Nyarlathotep stacks the deck so heavily in his favour and rage quits on reality when he loses. f!Igor empowered two sides like Izanami but twisted it so the outcome he wanted (humanity absolving itself of all responsibility for its own future) would happen regardless. He acts impartial like Izanami but he's actually personally invested in one outcome and cheating to enforce it like Nyarlathotep.
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Dec 31, 2018 02:20
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The way the competition should have gone was that Igor and Fake Igor would each have a champion who would be given access to the metaverse and whichever champion prevailed would have determined the victor. Fake Igor rigged the game by first ensuring that his champion, Akechi, would be active for an additional 2/3 years. This gave him enough time to create two tiers of people accepted their place, those who were weak came to accept the heel, and those with some power came to accept taking the knee to the truly powerful. Then when finally Igor's champion was created in Joker he was not given enough information so all he could do was take out the most powerful and in so doing leaving the entire society coming to accept their place and never daring to question it.
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Dec 31, 2018 02:56
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Maybe talking over the dude’s plan before the game makes it clear what said plan actually is is getting ahead of ourselves
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Dec 31, 2018 03:52
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I find it so bizarre that they recast !Real Igor. Like...Dan Woren still does work for Bang Zoom! At roughly the same time they would have been recording for this game, he was playing Stroheim in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure! I don't get it. It kinda ruins the effect when it's clearly Kirk Thornton just doing a soundalike.
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Dec 31, 2018 04:04
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W.T. Fits posted:And it was hinted at in the very beginning: Yeah, this was what clued me into the fact that there was something wrong here. I knew about Igor's old JP seiyuu dying, and that they recast him, along with the English VA, but seeing a greeting different from the one offered in P3 and 4 seemed kinda off to me, twigging some reaction. Am I the only one who saw a connection with the "this game is a work of fiction" disclaimer that fake Igor hadn't you agree to in the beginning of the game (and kicked you back to the title screen if you didn't agree) as the contract to begin P5 with how he was able to disappear the Phantom Thieves? Since you did acknowledge everything was a work of fiction there, he could use that in a sort of meta way to say that you denying the reality of the Thieves in universe or whatever. Or am I just reading way too much into a simple disclaimer at the start of the game (that apparently pissed some very sensitive people off at the gratuitous nature without understanding the significance of it), just made in universe instead our outright stated? Mightypeon posted:Actually, Persona with the cast of Jojos bizarre adventures would be something I would play the heck out of. Late, but I read a decently written finished fanfic last year that drops some JoJo characters into the Persona 5 setting in a fusion of the universes. Yeah, sure fanfic, but whatevs, it happens to be relatively well written and blends the two universes together well. Premise has the invisible baby from Diamond is Unbreakable growing up after being adopted by Joseph Joestar, and then transferring into Shujin after he dies and the sharks start circling for his inheritance. The usual plot shenanigans ensue. Features appearances by Josuke, the Morioh crew, other Stand users, some members of the Investigation Team and the Shadow Operatives, and others. Link if interested: https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/vanishing-act-jojo-persona-5.514762/
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Dec 31, 2018 06:40
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I will say this, it's nice for Igor to finally get some updated/new artwork, since I think the last official artwork for him was stuff from Persona 1 and/or Persona 2. Aka, nearly 20+ years ago.
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Dec 31, 2018 06:57
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AradoBalanga posted:I will say this, it's nice for Igor to finally get some updated/new artwork, since I think the last official artwork for him was stuff from Persona 1 and/or Persona 2. Aka, nearly 20+ years ago. Whoa, that's even worse than Morrigan's sprite. I think this is the first time I've seen Igor's full appearance because I always assumed he had a Penguin roundness to him going by how big his head is and his giant nose.
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Dec 31, 2018 07:08
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RareAcumen posted:Whoa, that's even worse than Morrigan's sprite. I think this is the first time I've seen Igor's full appearance because I always assumed he had a Penguin roundness to him going by how big his head is and his giant nose.
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Dec 31, 2018 07:19
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Arist posted:
I'm still so confused about whether the God of Control/Holy Grail/Igor?/whatever is controlled by the people or controls them. Like, he seems to be declaring that Maaku lost the game because the people gave into apathy. But it's obviously not a natural apathy. I guess the simplest answer is that Igor? lied from the start, the people don't actually have any control of this, and it's all just a supernatural being setting up a game and then forcing the result they want. But that's a really unsatisfying answer. Like, they could totally have set it up so that people had a believable kind of apathy - bystander syndrome is very much a thing. Have a lot of people talk about what an issue it is and how something must be done and not actually do anything, or whatever. Having blatantly magical apathy kind of undermines the conceit of the game.
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Dec 31, 2018 07:20
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No… It may be more accurate to say that I am a god who responds to desire and holds dominion over man.
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Qrr posted:I'm still so confused about whether the God of Control/Holy Grail/Igor?/whatever is controlled by the people or controls them. all of the "gods" in megaten games are borne out of people's desires (except for apparently Nyx from P3, but i think it was a misstep to even state that), and some of them eventually break loose and grab hold of the same desires that spawned them so that they can twist them to their own purposes the Grail claims that people want to be apathetic and blind because its own existence is evidence of that fact, it just happens to be turning up the dial a little bit e: even Nyarlathotep, pretty much the ur-baddie of Persona, is just a queasy mix of humanity's collective despair and self-destructive impulses, which as he points out also makes him totally ineradicable because he represents an essential part of being human Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 07:24
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AradoBalanga posted:It gets worse when you realize that one of the few constants throughout the Persona series has been Igor. Even when Philemon decided to go off on an extended vacation, Igor has stayed around to be there as a prominent presence for the player. And only with the 5th mainline game does he get some modern artwork, all thanks to actually being part of the plot this time around instead of his usual supporting role. Well I can believe it, considering my only experience with these games is screenshot LPs anyway. And I don't think I've ever seen anything more than the headshots the game provides for everyone anyway so this is completely new to me.
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Dec 31, 2018 07:24
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Nyarly is some basic gnostic poo poo (Demi-urge) with a hint of mythos sprinkled on. That did remind me though that there was never a completed LP of the other Persona 2, huh
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Dec 31, 2018 08:32
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Qrr posted:I'm still so confused about whether the God of Control/Holy Grail/Igor?/whatever is controlled by the people or controls them. your confusion is understandable and expecting perfect clarity before the game has finished dumping info on us is a bit unwise unfortunately persona 5 suffers from exposition disease and will not stop burying us under how clever it thinks its endgame is for a while yet
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Dec 31, 2018 08:51
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Oxxidation posted:all of the "gods" in megaten games are borne out of people's desires (except for apparently Nyx from P3, but i think it was a misstep to even state that), and some of them eventually break loose and grab hold of the same desires that spawned them so that they can twist them to their own purpose Nyx was never the true villain of 3, it was actually Erebus, humanity's collective desire for death.
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Dec 31, 2018 09:13
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Oxxidation posted:all of the "gods" in megaten games are borne out of people's desires (except for apparently Nyx from P3, but i think it was a misstep to even state that), and some of them eventually break loose and grab hold of the same desires that spawned them so that they can twist them to their own purposes I mean, to be fair, Death is a thing that has existed as long as Life has, far longer than Humanity. It wouldn't make sense for Death itself to only exist when humans come into being.
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Dec 31, 2018 14:08
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Oxxidation posted:all of the "gods" in megaten games are borne out of people's desires (except for apparently Nyx from P3, but i think it was a misstep to even state that), and some of them eventually break loose and grab hold of the same desires that spawned them so that they can twist them to their own purposes Nyx isn't actually a goddess, she's a Cthulhu style alien that smacked into Earth a few billion years age and ended up forming the core of the moon.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:01
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Stroth posted:Nyx isn't actually a goddess, she's a Cthulhu style alien that smacked into Earth a few billion years age and ended up forming the core of the moon. yeah, my point is that it’s a weird outlier in a cosmology that otherwise states every Weird Thing sprang from the collective unconscious of humanity in some way
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Dec 31, 2018 17:15
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Don't forget Devil Survivor 2 and maybe Digital Devil Saga.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:27
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Mraagvpeine posted:Don't forget Devil Survivor 2 and maybe Digital Devil Saga. digital devil saga was kooky in all sorts of ways, and i miss it so
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Dec 31, 2018 17:31
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Oxxidation posted:yeah, my point is that it’s a weird outlier in a cosmology that otherwise states every Weird Thing sprang from the collective unconscious of humanity in some way And I'm clarifying that Nyx isn't really part of the cosmology. Or rather, she is, but only because humans looked at an eldritch being the size of a small planet decided "Yes, that is probably a goddess". It's not even an outlier, it's a point from an entirely different data set that got accidentally included.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:32
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Stroth posted:And I'm clarifying that Nyx isn't really part of the cosmology. Or rather, she is, but only because humans looked at an eldritch being the size of a small planet decided "Yes, that is probably a goddess". It's not even an outlier, it's a point from an entirely different data set that got accidentally included. To elaborate on that a little further, I believe the official explanation is all the poo poo from that cosmology came about as a way to seal away Nyx instinctively. She collided with Earth when life was so young and her psyche scattered across the planet, and Gods and Demons are just humanity's subconscious covering up hers as a way of dealing with it and suppressing it. Since, y'know, living embodiment of Death.
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Dec 31, 2018 17:46
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Stroth posted:Nyx isn't actually a goddess, she's a Cthulhu style alien that smacked into Earth a few billion years age and ended up forming the core of the moon. Isn't this JENOVA's backstory in FF7.
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Dec 31, 2018 18:04
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Prythian posted:To elaborate on that a little further, I believe the official explanation is all the poo poo from that cosmology came about as a way to seal away Nyx instinctively. She collided with Earth when life was so young and her psyche scattered across the planet, and Gods and Demons are just humanity's subconscious covering up hers as a way of dealing with it and suppressing it. Since, y'know, living embodiment of Death. i get the feeling that this little tidbit was written before atlus realized persona 3 was going to resurrect the series the way that it did
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Dec 31, 2018 18:10
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I forgot all of this and it's very stupid
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Dec 31, 2018 18:25
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the nice thing about magical realism, is that none of the "literal" explanations matter one wit
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Dec 31, 2018 18:47
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| # ? May 13, 2024 12:58 |
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I really don't understand why everyone is so confused by the old English VA not being hired for Igor. It's kind of obvious in retrospect. The old Japanese VA died and Atlus saw a chance to make an *incredibly* potent twist that would be broadcast in front of the player and yet never realized because of meta reasons. So they grab a new VA for Igor, only he's really !Igor. No one notices until they're at the very endgame when it's revealed and suddenly the old fans are going "Oooooh shiiiit!" as so many little inconsistencies are explained and new players are given enough information to nod at the VA thing as being pretty clever even if most of it flew over their head. But what do you do for the English VA situation? You want to keep the player in the dark but you can't go hire some hitmen to kill the English-speaking VA, can you? So do you hire him back? Well then fans of the series will know something is definitely up when the old VA for Igor is listed but someone else is speaking for Igor. The point of this whole twist is to have it be an utter mindfuck: you were working for the villain the entire time and while it's understandable that the protagonist, who's never met Igor before, to not realize that. However it takes a lot more work to make the player believe such a thing. If you hired the old VA and had !Igor speaking in the wrong voice questions would be asked. If you hire two new VAs and don't immediately announce who the second is for, you shrug and feel it's some weirdness with the VA guild or personal drama between the team and the VA. You never realize it's to disguise that something's wrong with Igor.
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Dec 31, 2018 18:56
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