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Yeah, I mean the Basterds were inglorious and they were bastards but I think vile is maybe a bit much. Also remember the German sniper who was hailed as a hero and then had his little meltdown because Shoshana wouldn't date him? Also was Shoshana vile?
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Jan 1, 2019 13:36
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Baron von Eevl posted:Yeah, I mean the Basterds were inglorious and they were bastards but I think vile is maybe a bit much. Also remember the German sniper who was hailed as a hero and then had his little meltdown because Shoshana wouldn't date him? Also was Shoshana vile? No of course not, she was the most sympathetic and had clear personal stakes.
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Jan 1, 2019 14:01
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The Basterds have two non-Jewish members right? Stiglitz and Aldo Raine?bitterandtwisted posted:No of course not, she was the most sympathetic and had clear personal stakes. Don't all the Jews have clear personal stakes in defeating Hitler?
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Jan 1, 2019 14:04
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wish I could say this was the first time I'd heard "the jews are unsympathetic because they hate nazis so much" it IS however the first time I've seen it followed up by "also the nazis were sympathetic"
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Jan 1, 2019 14:08
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Baron von Eevl posted:Post Your Favorite (or Request): Coldly Compiled Lists > PYF Subltle Movie Moments: The Jewish heroes were vile and the Nazis were mostly sympathetic You laugh but that is how they were portrayed. The Bear Jew scene has Pitt's crew towering over and torturing a defeated enemy, using cinematic language that places them as the dastardly villains of a pulp film while the traditional heroic role is reserved for the Nazi characters (in that scene alone. Landa is always villainous in his scenes). Then the Nazi characters get murdered after surrendering. I think Tarantino was trying to tell a joke but I'm not sure what the punchline is except cruelty.
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Jan 1, 2019 14:11
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peer posted:wish I could say this was the first time I'd heard "the jews are unsympathetic because they hate nazis so much" quote:it IS however the first time I've seen it followed up by "also the nazis were sympathetic" I can't believe I have to clarify this but this was a complaint I had about the movie Our heroes are mutilating prisoners who beg for mercy
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Jan 1, 2019 14:15
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bitterandtwisted posted:I did not say that at all. In what way were they unsympathetic (or vile), if not in their treatment of people who want them dead merely for existing? bitterandtwisted posted:I can't believe I have to clarify this but this was a complaint I had about the movie I understand that you think the movie portrayed jews as vile and nazis as sympathetic, I'm just not really seeing it myself edit. I don't doubt for a second that QT is a piece of poo poo and has some hosed up politics, I'm just not seeing this specific complaint about this movie peer has a new favorite as of 14:21 on Jan 1, 2019 |
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Jan 1, 2019 14:18
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peer posted:In what way were they unsympathetic (or vile), if not in their treatment of people who want them dead merely for existing? I don't think the movie portrays Jews negatively, just the basterds themselves, who were unsympathetic because they keep murdering and mutilating prisoners.
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Jan 1, 2019 14:28
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bitterandtwisted posted:I did not say that at all. That's a very clear cinematic choice on Tarantino's part. None of the top Nazi's (Hitler, Goebbels, Landa, the guy with an ear for accents) are portrayed well, but all of the German soldiers are generally shown to be three dimensional characters - like Sgt Wilhelm, who just wanted to celebrate the birth of his son. And yes, the Basterds are cruel, but the cruelty is the point since that frightens the German army and makes them seem far more dangerous than they otherwise would be. Tons of people die in his movies, but none of the deaths are without some kind of weight. Even the Australian racists in Django seemed agreeable enough if you take away the whole slaver part.
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Jan 1, 2019 14:29
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bitterandtwisted posted:I don't think the movie portrays Jews negatively, just the basterds themselves, who were unsympathetic because they keep murdering and mutilating prisoners. I think what keeps them from being vile is that the people they were mutilating were literal Nazis. The movie doesn't show them as vile, it shows their cruelty as cool and good. Think of the climax of Death Proof. He's reveling in the catharsis that the Basterds get from scalping Nazis. edit: I can't believe I have to explain this. Tarantino's entire thesis at this point in his career is revenge; The Bride wants revenge against Bill, the girls from DP want revenge against their tormentor, the Basterds AND Shoshana want revenge, both against Hitler/Naziism as a greater evil and against Landa specifically. The odd thing with this is that it's Shoshana that gets Hitler and the Basterds that get revenge against Landa, not the other way around. Baron von Eevl has a new favorite as of 16:27 on Jan 1, 2019 |
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Jan 1, 2019 16:21
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I’m pretty sure the Basterds get Hitler first.
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Jan 1, 2019 17:28
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:I’m pretty sure the Basterds get Hitler first. They only get the chance once Shoshana's plan fires up tho?
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Jan 1, 2019 17:46
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Yeah, their plan went to poo poo and they only get the chance to riddle his corpse with bullets because of Shoshana.
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Jan 1, 2019 19:28
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bitterandtwisted posted:I did not say that at all. It's a revenge fantasy starring empowered jews against the nazis. The nazis in real life killed 2/3rds of the european population of jews, making them an unambiguous evil. The bastards are running a guerrilla war of terror behind enemy lines in the face of overwhelming odds to win the war and give fight back against the horror of the nazi regime, and they inflect less than a thousandth of the total deaths back onto the nazis. I can't believe the amount of text I've had to write explaining how nazis were bad guys in the past 2 or 3 years, it's insane.
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Jan 1, 2019 19:48
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This guy is saying that they're framing it like the Nazis are the good guys and the Basterds are awful, but that's only assuming that you're reading the most intentionally deceptive version of the events as possible. Yes, the Basterds surround and beat/murder/mutilate the nazi soldiers. This is portrayed as a good thing and the Basterds are cool for doing it. The violence is shocking and you're supposed to go "holy poo poo, these guys rule, I can't believe I'm rooting for the guy that just scalped that fucker." The nazis are still nazis and you, as a human being with a human brain and a basic knowledge of the context, are supposed to suss this out. It is a movie that makes you cheer along with what should hypothetically seem horrific.
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Jan 1, 2019 19:54
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It's odd because you don't really see a lot of Germans killing people. The Jew Bear shows up after the fight is over and the Nazi squad leader is unarmed. Zollar's combat heroics are dramatized in a movie. Sgt Wilhelm just wants to celebrate his son's birth with his friends. And the real full fledged Nazi's aren't even that good at murder. Landa and Hellstrom are both incredibly evil and only kill one person each (not counting Shoshana's family who Landa orders killed). This isn't to call them sympathetic, but Tarantino appears to have made an obvious effort to contrast the two sides. The Germans are methodical about their killing and the Basterds aren't. It's almost sanitized to the Nazi's, where Landa only gets his hands dirty in a rage against Von Hammersmark (he even declined to shoot Shoshana when given the chance). Contrast that to the Basterds who are literally choking people with their fists and taking home scalps.
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Jan 1, 2019 20:14
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Subtle moment: the Nazis were bad
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Jan 1, 2019 20:34
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I can't remember where, but I read somewhere that Tarantino deliberately portrayed the Nazi's with 'heroic' style and the Basterds the opposite, purely to demonstrate that it doesn't matter because they're Nazis. No matter how noble and sympathetic they appear they were all working towards a German victory and everything that entailed, so it shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference if they had kids or were brave in the face of death. They were fighting for Hitler, the Basterds were fighting for the Allies, that's all that matters. Of course that's just one way of thinking, but as far as I understand it was what Tarantino was going for.
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Jan 1, 2019 21:15
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Don’t you hate when you out yourself as a nazi sympathizer in the subtle movie thread?
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Jan 1, 2019 21:25
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Hey, what are we talking about tod--
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Jan 1, 2019 23:00
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I liked that line in the latest Wolfenstein game where BJ is saying about atrocities committed by Nazis, 'Monsters did this' and he is rebuked with, 'MEN did this'. Yes, the Nazis were portrayed with cinematic language of the heroes and the basterds protrayed as the villains, brutally killing an unarmed soldier bargaining for the lives of his men and one begging to see his new born son. But also they're nazis so put bullets in them and beat in their heads with bats. Having sympathy for Nazis gets you a bullet for your trouble as shown with Shoshana. VanSandman posted:You laugh but that is how they were portrayed. The Bear Jew scene has Pitt's crew towering over and torturing a defeated enemy, using cinematic language that places them as the dastardly villains of a pulp film while the traditional heroic role is reserved for the Nazi characters (in that scene alone. Landa is always villainous in his scenes). Then the Nazi characters get murdered after surrendering. I think Tarantino was trying to tell a joke but I'm not sure what the punchline is except cruelty. The joke is cruelty will be dressed up as heroics by fascists.
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Jan 1, 2019 23:09
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Inglourious Basterds was not a good film because the Jewish protagonists weren't nice enough to the friendly Germans they encountered, who were honourable and brave.
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Jan 1, 2019 23:34
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Posting is a mistake bitterandtwisted has a new favorite as of 23:48 on Jan 1, 2019 |
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Jan 1, 2019 23:41
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bitterandtwisted posted:I just didn't get the catharsis of ... Kill Bill because the Bride ... weren't sadistic. I think you need to rewatch kill bill
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Jan 1, 2019 23:45
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bitterandtwisted posted:The Bride wasn't sadistic The Bride literally rips out Elle's remaining eye and leaves her, blind and thrashing, in an enclosed area with a venomous, aggressive snake. To further the connections between Inglorious Basterds, True Romance and Pulp Fiction: Saul Rubinek's character in True Romance is named Lee Donowitz. The Bear Jew is his father, Donny Donowitz.
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Jan 1, 2019 23:55
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I honestly didn't know that nazis were bad until tarantino told me, what would the world do without him to explain these complicated truths
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Jan 2, 2019 00:17
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bitterandtwisted posted:Our heroes are mutilating prisoners who beg for mercy So, just to be clear, you think they should have been treated with mercy?
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Jan 2, 2019 00:20
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Killing 70+ people in extremely violent ways is not sadistic
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Jan 2, 2019 01:45
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I do like the idea that the Tarantino universe is That Way because Hitler was shot up in a movie theater.
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Jan 2, 2019 02:50
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beanieson posted:Subtle moment: the Nazis were bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzuaW8GD3X8
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Jan 2, 2019 02:55
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This thread inspired me to re-watch Pulp Fiction and I noticed something. When Marcellus hands Butch is bribe money, it's glowing orange just like the infamous briefcase. For all the talk about what magic mcguffin in the case, I think it's just money and a lighting choice the director made. There's no sound but look at the lighting on the envelope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DicYF4RQBnU
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Jan 2, 2019 03:06
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Eh, there's just red lights all over that set. It's also on the right side of Butch's face and Marcellus' right hand when he talks about the sting of pride.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:29
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In Ragnarok, when Thor first arrives at Sakkar, the "World of Pure Imagination" song from Willy Wonka is playing. I got so wrapped up in the narration that I didn't hear it at all the first time.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:58
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Inzombiac posted:In Ragnarok, when Thor first arrives at Sakkar, the "World of Pure Imagination" song from Willy Wonka is playing. He's also traveling through a tunnel-of-hell mindfuck at the moment, so it's definitely on the nose. Arc Hammer has a new favorite as of 06:29 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 06:27
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I love seeing Americans talk about how Tarantino paints the Nazis in the traditionally heroic way, cause for obvious reasons, in Germany there's no such tradition of portraying the clean-cut soldiers and brave lieutenants protecting their men as the heroes so to us they're just all Nazis. It's always a bit revealing about you guys' media and military movie culture.
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Jan 2, 2019 09:04
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I'm with Lindsay Ellis on this one (badly paraphrasing): when you use cinematic visual language to portray something, people are going to remember the message left by the cinematic language, not the script and not outside context (and yes, the characters being part of the world's worst war machine is outside context to the film's limited text). So I get Tarantino's joke, I guess, but I don't think it was very effective.
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Jan 2, 2019 12:10
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VanSandman posted:I'm with Lindsay Ellis on this one (badly paraphrasing): when you use cinematic visual language to portray something, people are going to remember the message left by the cinematic language, not the script and not outside context True, people quite often don't understand artistic irony and end up confused.
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Jan 2, 2019 12:21
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VanSandman posted:I'm with Lindsay Ellis on this one (badly paraphrasing): when you use cinematic visual language to portray something, people are going to remember the message left by the cinematic language, not the script and not outside context (and yes, the characters being part of the world's worst war machine is outside context to the film's limited text). So I get Tarantino's joke, I guess, but I don't think it was very effective. Yes, that's why Tarantino probably shouldn't have filmed those Nazis in such a heroic light, such as - check's notes - machine-gunning a defenseless Jewish family to death.
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Jan 2, 2019 13:37
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Sure have been, like, a lot of loving nazi apologists in the thread these past two days 
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Jan 2, 2019 13:42
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Queen Combat posted:Sure have been, like, a lot of loving nazi apologists in the thread these past two days Nobody's a Nazi apologist you moron. People are saying the way Tarantino frames the Nazi characters in a few scenes as either victims or normal people makes them uncomfortable because the Nazis were capital E evil. It's criticism of Tarantino, not saying 'boy those poor Nazis.'
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Jan 2, 2019 14:01
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