|
Davros1 posted:I thought this quote was really interesting: One specific example of this that I remember is a "submarine" episode where the heroes are trying to infiltrate a Separatist blockade in a cloaked stealth ship, which is bigger but still in the same general size range as the Millennium Falcon. Obviously in Empire Captain Needa says "no ship that small has a cloaking device," so one of the members of the team (maybe Henry Gilroy) pointed that out to George. George basically just told him not to take everything so literally, so in the end Anakin gets a line in the episode where he explains that "no ship that small usually has a cloaking device."
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 08:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 07:42 |
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:My storyboarding project got carried away, so I ended up re-editing the entire 'Attack on Tuanul' sequence from Force Awakens: Hey man, those sound design guys worked hard on those pews and the movie is better with them
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 08:49
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:My storyboarding project got carried away, so I ended up re-editing the entire 'Attack on Tuanul' sequence from Force Awakens: It's a Life Day miracle!
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 10:37
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:Hey man, those sound design guys worked hard on those pews and the movie is better with them The issue is less the sound effects than the score (although I don’t like them either); John Williams is like the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. His music is the biggest/only issue with the prequels, in that it’s the #1 thing telling people “it’s supposed to be freakin Epic!!!”. (Like how Duel Of The Fates is overused in fan films to get people hyped for combat when the actual scene in Phantom Menace is about Quigon badly misinterpreting the situation and loving everything up). When you get the ST films, it’s just rote and used (along with expository dialogue) to pave over issues with the narrative. For this video, the editing was done silent - no temp track(s) - with the music chosen almost at random and applied after the fact. And it works - because the groundwork is already solid.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 17:58
|
|
|
What is the music track dude? I dig it
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 19:08
|
|
|
One comment about the audio: if I hadn't earlier read you mention that this Kylo was meant to speak in security droid voice clips, I don't know if I would have figured it out until the end.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 19:11
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:One specific example of this that I remember is a "submarine" episode where the heroes are trying to infiltrate a Separatist blockade in a cloaked stealth ship, which is bigger but still in the same general size range as the Millennium Falcon. Obviously in Empire Captain Needa says "no ship that small has a cloaking device," so one of the members of the team (maybe Henry Gilroy) pointed that out to George. George basically just told him not to take everything so literally, so in the end Anakin gets a line in the episode where he explains that "no ship that small usually has a cloaking device." I like to imagine stuff like this happened a lot to George. Then he'd just eyeball them and say "Don't tell me how Star Wars works."
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 19:30
|
|
|
Looks like Star Wars fandom has come full circle. Looking forward to this generations Phantom Edit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 19:40
|
|
|
UmOk posted:Looks like Star Wars fandom has come full circle. Looking forward to this generations Phantom Edit. It was the one where they took out all the women
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 20:56
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/PrequelMemesBot/status/1080216186359443456
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2019 22:39
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:One comment about the audio: if I hadn't earlier read you mention that this Kylo was meant to speak in security droid voice clips, I don't know if I would have figured it out until the end. Good! That means it works, since it’s not a gimmick - it’s genuinely his dialogue. It‘s something you might pick up on, like the repetition of dialogue and scenarios across Lucas’ films. (My favorite example is when Anakin blows up the droid control ship with the same accident that got Jar Jar banished from his homeland.) If the dialogue only made sense as a reference to Phantom Menace, it would be a failure. I’m also sticking to a sort of remix ethos. There’s nothing preventing me from writing all-new dialogue, but it’s more interesting (for example) to remove Kylo’s side of the tepid back-and-forth so that Max Von Sydow’s character comes across as a blowhard. This means there won’t be a scene where Kylo exposits that the mask has a prequel-era droid AI. The ST films have absolutely garbage-quality dialogue. Here’s the original version of the scene: Max: Look how old you've become. Ren: Something far worse has happened to you. Ren: You know what I've come for. Max: I know where you come from. Before you called yourself Kylo Ren. Ren: The map to Skywalker. We know you've found it, and now you're going to give it to the First Order. Max: The First Order rose from the dark side... you did not. Ren: I'll show you the dark side. Max: You may try, but you cannot deny the truth that is your family. Ren:You're so right. This is poo poo. Like, they’re not even talking to eachother. There’s no flow to it at all. If you bother to parse it, Max is saying that Ren’s latent feelings for Han and Leia are preventing him from achieving his objectives and finding the map. And then Ren says Darth Vader is his real family, so the power of Vader will help him to find the map. Why does he need the map? Why is Max saying the light side makes you a wuss? Why does Ren brag that Max will certainly give up the map, then kill him seconds later? Why does family give you finding powers? Why is this the conflict? In my version, looking for the macguffin. The Viceroy starts nattering on and on about family and origins, so Kylo gets annoyed and kills him. But there is more nuance to this interaction. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jan 2, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 00:44
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The ST films have absolutely garbage-quality dialogue. Here’s the original version of the scene: I actually really like this exchange. You say there's no flow, but that's the first thing that stood out to me. Max: Look how old you've become. Ren: Something far worse has happened to you.  Also it's just a great back and forth. Kylo keeps hitting balls over the net and Max keeps catching them and tossing them off to the side. Max: You know what I've come for. Ren: I know where you come from. Before you called yourself Kylo Ren. Ren: The map to Skywalker. We know you've found it, and now you're going to give it to The First Order. Max: The First Order rose from the dark side... you did not. I dunno, it's not anywhere as bad as your hyperbole makes it out to be, but that's just me I guess!
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 01:03
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:I actually really like this exchange. You say there's no flow, but that's the first thing that stood out to me. Agreed, it's not that bad an exchange. Otoh, that's Emperor loving Ming right there. Considering that's all of him we'll ever see in a Star Wars movie, it's not that great either.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 01:06
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The ST films have absolutely garbage-quality dialogue. Here’s the original version of the scene: Even when I saw TFA for the first time, drunk on the prospect of The New Star Wars, this opening exchange stuck out as such an incredibly hacky attempt at Mysterious Dialogue And Foreshadowing that felt like it belonged in someone's online fanfiction. I feel like you could switch around just about all the lines and it wouldn't feel like you'd changed it.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 01:13
|
|
|
The series of reversals doesn’t amount to an intelligible conversation. Look at it in terms of form, the information that’s conveyed to the audience: 1) We begin with the reveal, to the audience, that Ren used to know Max when he was younger. 2) Max reveals that Ren wasn’t evil back then. 3) Ren reveals that he’s after the macguffin. 4) Max says that he used to know Ren when he was younger. He says that Ren wasn’t evil back then. (He reveals Ren’s name to the audience.) 5) Ren says that he’s after the macguffin. 6) Max says that he used to know Ren when he was younger. He says that Ren wasn’t evil back then. (He reveals the concept of light and dark “sides”.) 7) Ren says he’s evil now. 8) Max reveals that the light side is ‘the power of family’, referring to Leia. 9) Ren says the dark side is also the power of family, referring to Vader. So the dialogue is hugely redundant... and vague, because the “Leia’s his mom” thing was originally a Vader-style twist before the reshoots.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 01:46
|
|
|
One scene that stood out to me as being pretty poor was the long, artless information dump conversation between Han and Leia.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 03:06
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The series of reversals doesn’t amount to an intelligible conversation. Max von Sydow is obviously avoiding replying directly to Ren though. It's fine, it's not 'awful'
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 04:05
|
|
|
Ren: You're so right. Max: I know where you came from. Before you called yourself Kylo Ren. Ren: Look how old you've become. Max: The First Order rose from the dark side... you did not. Something far worse has happened to you. Ren: You're so right. You know what I've come for. Max: You may try, but you cannot deny the truth that is your family. Ren: The map to Skywalker. We know you've found it, and now you're going to give it to the First Order. I'll show you the dark side. It's bad dialogue, but it's not hard to make it into something with a bit more going on beneath the surface, even with just the parts provided. In this version, Ren goes from smug and arrogant, gloating over some previous conversation with Max, to suddenly shifting in demeanor towards anger and goals and threats and usage of 'We' over 'I' when Max's raises the topic of his family. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Jan 2, 2019 |
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 04:29
|
|
|
J_RBG posted:Max von Sydow is obviously avoiding replying directly to Ren though. It's fine, it's not 'awful' No; he is replying directly (e.g. “you may try”). Let’s parse the dialogue and translate it into normal speech: Ren: It’s been a long time since we last met, and you’ve become frail. I’m stronger than ever, and I’m here for the map. We know you've found it, so don’t bother trying to deceive us. Skywalker is as good as dead. Max: You won’t succeed, because you’re not really a bad person. You wanted to become a Jedi, Ben. Your father is hero of the Republic, and your mother is a queen. That‘s how you were raised. You just don’t have it in you to kill your uncle. Ren: They may be my parents, but Han and Leia are not my family. I am the grandson of Darth Vader. He is my guide and, by his teachings, I will destroy you all. This is extremely poorly conveyed in the actual film, however. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jan 2, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 05:50
|
|
|
Max is just playing dumb in what is essentially an interrogation by Ren. While also making an appeal to the young Padawan that Ren used to be and distracting The First Order long enough for BB-8 to roll into the desert with the map to Skywalker.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 06:05
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:Max is just playing dumb in what is essentially an interrogation by Ren. While also making an appeal to the young Padawan that Ren used to be and distracting The First Order long enough for BB-8 to roll into the desert with the map to Skywalker. Ren is not interrogating Max; he doesn’t even ask a question. Ren is boasting, and Max is insulting him. There’s no indication that Max is stalling for time. As far as he knows, Poe is long gone. It’s important not to just assume stuff. You gotta look at the narrative as it exists.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 06:21
|
|
|
General Dog posted:One scene that stood out to me as being pretty poor was the long, artless information dump conversation between Han and Leia. That was one of the scenes that stood out to me as being actively bad as opposed to just mediocre and unmemorable. Same goes for the scene where Finn confesses to Rey. It feels so forced, and it's weird how they build up Finn keeping this secret as if it's some big thing, and then the culmination of that subplot is him revealing everything to Rey in a rushed exchange where she immediately forgives him and starts crying literal tears of sympathy. There's absolutely no consequence for his choice to lie to her. It's just weird plotting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 06:34
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:That was one of the scenes that stood out to me as being actively bad as opposed to just mediocre and unmemorable. Same goes for the scene where Finn confesses to Rey. It feels so forced, and it's weird how they build up Finn keeping this secret as if it's some big thing, and then the culmination of that subplot is him revealing everything to Rey in a rushed exchange where she immediately forgives him and starts crying literal tears of sympathy. There's absolutely no consequence for his choice to lie to her. It's just weird plotting. The lying is a weird dead end as a plot point, but I don't really have much problem with Rey's subdued reaction. She has so much to process by that point, it makes sense that she wouldn't even really have time to process it as a betrayal. It's more, "whoever you are, I could still use help; if you've been lying to me we can come back around to it later."
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 06:42
|
|
|
The dialogue between Kylo and Sydow's character is overtly purple prose that only exists as a setup for Poe's "witty" banter that immediately proceeds it, and that formula continues throughout both movies.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 07:23
|
|
|
Awkward dialogue? In my Star Wars?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 08:02
|
|
|
General Dog posted:The lying is a weird dead end as a plot point, but I don't really have much problem with Rey's subdued reaction. She has so much to process by that point, it makes sense that she wouldn't even really have time to process it as a betrayal. It's more, "whoever you are, I could still use help; if you've been lying to me we can come back around to it later." I don't have a real problem with Rey's reaction either. It's like you said, it's the dead end nature of the deception plot point. Like if you're going to try to play it that way, the deception should have consequences, and then after that there should be a reconciliation. The story should be written so that the lie screws them over in some way that would believably make Rey angry, and then later the two of them should come back together in a way which underlines the reasons the two of them are friends in the first place. It's a formula, but it's a good formula that exists for a reason. The fact that none of that happens makes the "reveal-->instant understanding" thing feel jammed-in and unearned. If you can find an interesting way to subvert the formula, more power to you, but in this case it's more like they were just writing this thing on the fly and didn't know where they were going with anything. Which was basically the case, of course.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 08:09
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:The dialogue between Kylo and Sydow's character is overtly purple prose that only exists as a setup for Poe's "witty" banter that immediately proceeds it, and that formula continues throughout both movies. It's also there to remind people of ANH. Like, right out of the gate you get an exchange about masters of evil and whatnot between a guy in a black mask and a distinguished European actor who is subsequently struck down
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 08:33
|
|
|
I'm moved whenever I think about the poignant quest for the space treasure map. The prize at the end was a child abuser sovcit
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 08:40
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:It's also there to remind people of ANH. Like, right out of the gate you get an exchange about masters of evil and whatnot between a guy in a black mask and a distinguished European actor who is subsequently struck down If you strike me down, I will become more insignificant than you can possibly imagine! Dude got killed in front of the wrong character. (You want the one who hears voices).
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 08:43
|
|
|
Lolling at that old clone wars interview someone posted George ownsquote:Dave [Filoni, head cartoon boy]: I once pitched George the idea that Plo [Koon] had a parachute and that he bailed out of his fighter before it crashed. Then George said he would only continue the scene and make Plo’s death more painful, I think his parachute was going to catch fire and he falls on something sharp.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 09:56
|
|
|
Ingmar terdman posted:Lolling at that old clone wars interview someone posted George owns I've come around quite a bit on George Lucas, things like this are just too  for me to understand how anyone could be mad at him. These are grown men making a lot of money by making movies about space aliens, and one guy gets grumpy and threatens the other guy's favorite character with violent death if he keeps on obsessing about him. There should be a movie about Filoni's attempts to make Plo Koon a Thing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 11:00
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:I've come around quite a bit on George Lucas, things like this are just too Honestly, the thing that most endeared me to George Lucas is his thinly-veiled disdain for Star Wars fans. However, the one thing that still annoys me about him is how he always beats around the bush about how much he hates the new movies. I can't really understand why he isn't more straight with people who ask him in interviews and what have you. It's not like he has an active mainstream directing career that people will conspire to derail. I mean, the man is a multi-billionaire, he can write his own ticket if he so desires. Just say you don't like them, Lucas, you're hardly in the minority on it and it would probably be the final thing you need to do to turn everybody else around on the prequels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 12:34
|
|
|
I rewatched TFA over Christmas and it's still pretty good! Some of the cgi compositing is shaky if you look for it though, like the stormtroopers getting wrecked by X-wings
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 13:08
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I rewatched TFA over Christmas and it's still pretty good! Some of the cgi compositing is shaky if you look for it though, like the stormtroopers getting wrecked by X-wings I still enjoyed it last time I watched it so there's probably just something wrong with me. I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 13:54
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Honestly, the thing that most endeared me to George Lucas is his thinly-veiled disdain for Star Wars fans. There's probably a non-disparagement clause in the contract for the sale of the property to Disney.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 14:30
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:There's probably a non-disparagement clause in the contract for the sale of the property to Disney. It's 100% this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 14:32
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I still enjoyed it last time I watched it so there's probably just something wrong with me. I don't know. As with, like, Jurassic World, it’s competent enough that people don’t actively hate it - but it’s also a huge mess of reshoots. Boyega’s scenes with Rey were one of the big targets of the reshoots, which is why the FN character doesn’t really work - despite being the protagonist. Both the ST films have noticeably weak editing, which is why I started storyboarding this new film in the first place. The Attack on Tuanul is alternately loaded with flabby long takes or spastic over-editing. Like, Poe runs from the village to the x-wing, climbs up, gets in, activates the lights, and B.B. runs over all in one unimpressive shot. Meanwhile, Ren swinging his laser-sword takes five or six cuts - so many shots that I was able to reconstruct the event from two different angles, with footage to spare.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 15:12
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I still enjoyed it last time I watched it so there's probably just something wrong with me. I don't know. I enjoy the new ones, on about the same level I enjoy the Marvel movies. But I miss George Lucas.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 15:40
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I rewatched TFA over Christmas and it's still pretty good! Some of the cgi compositing is shaky if you look for it though, like the stormtroopers getting wrecked by X-wings I enjoy TFA more after seeing TLJ. It has some good character moments and slightly less terrible humor than TLJ. I also enjoy the music. It feels more like a Star Wars movie than TLJ. I'm aware that this is a very shallow analysis but I learned to settle for very little when it comes to Star Wars sequels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 15:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 07:42 |
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:It's also there to remind people of ANH. Like, right out of the gate you get an exchange about masters of evil and whatnot between a guy in a black mask and a distinguished European actor who is subsequently struck down I did find it hilarious that Sydow's character and the whole Church of the Force stuff, like basically all of the potentially interesting concepts they had going on for Force Awakens was then relegated to comics and tie-in novels and stuff. But it was also interesting because they kind of brought that back in a way in The Last Jedi.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2019 16:19
|
|
