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Mahoning posted:In my experience, there are tons of really bad appraisers out there. I've run in to quite a few that had no idea what comps to use or used the wrong school district or just overall seemed like they didn't even go inside the home. "Windshield appraisals" are a thing, and it's super lovely.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:43
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Droo posted:As far as the appraisal, I can't imagine walking away from a house I was in love with for $15,000. I mean sure go ahead and ask but are you really going to restart your entire house search process over a couple weeks of income, just because some bank drone got some goofy numbers off of Zillow or whatever? I'm struggling with this, but the way I'm justifying it is that we weren't "actively" looking for a house, and this one kind of fell in to our lap. At the end of the day, 15k is still 15k, and I don't want to overpay for something. Only one of us has already packed up and largely moved out.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:44
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Andy Dufresne posted:
It is not 100% black and white that the inspection contingency still applies because there was an appraisal that met the offer price, or because this process delayed closing and the contingency passed. There are sunk costs between the three appraisals and other due diligence. Its not a lot of leverage but its something that is lost if this sale is not complete.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:46
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Residency Evil posted:Only one of us has already packed up and largely moved out. yeah, I don't know what everyone else is on about. you've got leverage out the rear end and are in the best possible position to save $15k
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Jan 3, 2019 17:46
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lampey posted:It is not 100% black and white that the inspection contingency still applies because there was an appraisal that met the offer price, or because this process delayed closing and the contingency passed. There should be separate inspection and appraisal contingencies. Don't conflate the two.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:50
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Droo posted:As far as the appraisal, I can't imagine walking away from a house I was in love with for $15,000. I mean sure go ahead and ask but are you really going to restart your entire house search process over a couple weeks of income, just because some bank drone got some goofy numbers off of Zillow or whatever? If $15,000 was a couple weeks of income I'd be making almost $400k per year and I would probably look at a lot of things differently
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Jan 3, 2019 17:54
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Mahoning posted:In my experience, there are tons of really bad appraisers out there. I've run in to quite a few that had no idea what comps to use or used the wrong school district or just overall seemed like they didn't even go inside the home. Desktop and drive by (exterior only) appraisals are permitted for some transactions. The appraiser is doing whatever type he is paid for, and nothing more.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:56
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therobit posted:Desktop and drive by (exterior only) appraisals are permitted for some transactions. The appraiser is doing whatever type he is paid for, and nothing more. That's usually for like a home equity loan or a refinance or something like that, not a home sale.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:58
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Ghostnuke posted:yeah, I don't know what everyone else is on about. you've got leverage out the rear end and are in the best possible position to save $15k poo poo POST MALONE posted:Wait what Jose Valasquez posted:If $15,000 was a couple weeks of income I'd be making almost $400k per year and I would probably look at a lot of things differently OK, what if the scenario was stated like this: A pair of married doctors without children found the perfect, possibly lifelong house in a location that is ideal for both of their careers and made an offer on it. However, the appraisal came in about 1-2% below their offer price, and mortgage rates have moved down a bit since they locked. They are going to ask for a cheaper rate from the bank, and a lower sale price from the seller, but if neither is willing to accommodate them should they walk away from this deal?
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Jan 3, 2019 17:59
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Mahoning posted:That's usually for like a home equity loan or a refinance or something like that, not a home sale. My HELOC inspector came inside, looked in every room, and asked questions. I was shocked.
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Jan 3, 2019 18:00
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Motronic posted:There should be separate inspection and appraisal contingencies. Don't conflate the two. I meant finance contingency there. It is possible the buyer is in breach of contract if they did not get the seller to sign an extension, or deliver a mortgage commitment(release the finance contingency), or close on time if they are past the original finance contingency date. Realtors are not lawyers and they do not always know how earnest money or contingencies work when there is a dispute.
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Jan 3, 2019 18:02
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Subjunctive posted:My HELOC inspector came inside, looked in every room, and asked questions. I was shocked. It's driven by loan amount and expected property value, not the work ethic of the appraiser.
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Jan 3, 2019 18:04
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For $78/month and $28k over 30 years/4.75% at that price point at your income level I would probably just put the cash on the barrel if they refused to budge. You were prepared to buy that house for several times that spread. It's not the literal best with money thing to do but it doesn't seem like the worst either. You've talked about paying it off in 10 years which would dramatically reduce the spread between $15k and $28k as well.
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Jan 3, 2019 18:17
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Droo posted:OK, what if the scenario was stated like this: H110Hawk posted:For $78/month and $28k over 30 years/4.75% at that price point at your income level I would probably just put the cash on the barrel if they refused to budge. You were prepared to buy that house for several times that spread. I've just wanted to keep emotion out of this purchase as much as possible, and losing on this seems to set a bad personal precedent. Maybe it's silly, I'm not sure. I also don't want to be a future BWM thread subject. Our agent told them we're prepared to walk. I guess we'll see who blinks first.
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Jan 3, 2019 18:46
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It’s not really losing, it’s accepting a different deal. If the original negotiation process had landed with N+15 as their final offer, would you have gone ahead?
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Jan 3, 2019 18:55
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Residency Evil posted:I've just wanted to keep emotion out of this purchase as much as possible, and losing on this seems to set a bad personal precedent. Maybe it's silly, I'm not sure. I also don't want to be a future BWM thread subject. What is your time worth finding another house? If it's 0 because you enjoy doing this as a hobby on the weekends then sure, back out. If it makes you want to strangle everyone involved, then there is value in being done. You assign that value. There is also risk of interest rates ticking up and you still wind up spending that amount of money. It's an unlikely risk but it could still happen.
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Jan 3, 2019 18:58
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Subjunctive posted:It’s not really losing, it’s accepting a different deal. If the original negotiation process had landed with N+15 as their final offer, would you have gone ahead? Yes, but that's not the issue for me, the appraisal is. If the original negotiation had landed on N-50, but the appraisal was N-100, we'd still have this same issue.
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Jan 3, 2019 19:12
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Jose Valasquez posted:If $15,000 was a couple weeks of income I'd be making almost $400k per year and I would probably look at a lot of things differently I had the same thought!
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Jan 3, 2019 19:19
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Residency Evil posted:Yes, but that's not the issue for me, the appraisal is. If the original negotiation had landed on N-50, but the appraisal was N-100, we'd still have this same issue. The appraisal didn’t tell you anything new about the house, it told you something about the broader market with no sensitivity to how it affects your specific circumstances (commute, aesthetics, proximity to stuff you care about, the cute window overlooking the patio). The broader market, in my opinion, doesn’t matter at the scale of a couple percent of purchase price because a) I’m buying it to live in and not as an investment, and b) I’m not selling into this market when the time comes anyway. $15K, making some assumptions about your lifestyle and finances, is below the amount of random market variability if you’re going to be there for a few years at least. “Find something for less than a bank will appraise it for” wasn’t one of my criteria, and unless it breaks the financial viability of the purchase I’m not sure why it’s one of yours. There is a certain financial arrangement that will buy you the house. That is the case whether your banks, agent, or in-laws think it is over/under/perfectly priced. Would you rather have the house than the money? The bank isn’t buying or living in it, so it doesn’t matter what they think an average buyer would pay for it unless you’re planning to sell within the window of validity of the appraisal. In which case, you might want your own independent appraisal!
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Jan 3, 2019 19:26
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"When I want to move out, I'm going to be starting at a $15k loss not counting market changes" is absolutely a thing to think about, wtf are you on about?
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Jan 3, 2019 19:34
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It depends on the scale of the purchase, and if he’s buying a 1.5M home it really isn’t. But regardless, he doesn’t actually know that. I would be very surprised to find that the bank’s appraisal has predictive power to within a $15K window over even a few weeks. For the bank’s purposes it doesn’t have to be, because they are amortizing risk across a large number of loans (really they’re checking a box so they can sell the loan, but whatever.) If he is really concerned about a $15K variance in today’s market affecting his future sale, he should get an independent appraisal himself, because the bank’s is not intended to predict future price that precisely over a multiple-year timeframe as far as I can tell.
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Jan 3, 2019 19:41
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I don't want to sound like a dick here but 15k is a totally irrelevant amount of money given what your time is worth. It would be like if someone making $60,000 annually came down to closing a real estate transaction and the numbers were off by $1,500. Would you really blow up a deal for that? We just tried to buy a place recently that was in every way better than our current home and had sat, stale, on the market. We initially offered $80K under ask, they countered and we countered best and final at like 60K under their ask. It sat another two months before they ended up selling to another couple for probably around $40K under ask. The transaction still gnaws at me a little, because I know that time and energy we invested into looking is a sunk cost. I'll also have to find a house that ticks our boxes as well as this one did. At the end of the day $20K to our favor was probably still material, but only just. I think the current buyers overpaid, but that doesn't mean I don't regret failing to get the deal done.
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Jan 3, 2019 19:44
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I don't want to sound like a dick here but 15k is a totally irrelevant amount of money given what your time is worth. It would be like if someone making $60,000 annually came down to closing a real estate transaction and the numbers were off by $1,500. Would you really blow up a deal for that? It’s really way less significant than that, because of the marginal utility of money in those financial circumstances.
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Jan 3, 2019 19:45
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Those of you who found a random mortgage company on Bankrate, what was your experience like with that? Our house is under construction now, with an estimated late May completion date. We've been pre-qualified through the builder's lender, and the initial rate (this is back in October/November) was 4.99%, which is nuts now. We see these very low rates on Bankrate now, some even under 4%. Obviously I'd love to knock off a full percentage. The other issue is if we move forward now, we need a long rate lock, which most companies don't seem to offer. ETA: Just heard from the builder's lender: they offer a 150 day rate lock, at today's rate plus 0.125%. Cost is half a point upfront, which is then paid towards closing costs if we end up going with them as our lender, and includes a one-time float down option at 30 days prior to closing. Omne fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 3, 2019 |
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Jan 3, 2019 20:27
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Subjunctive posted:a) I’m buying it to live in and not as an investment EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I don't want to sound like a dick here but 15k is a totally irrelevant amount of money given what your time is worth. These two things are the crux of the matter in my opinion. This is not a rental property that you are trying to cash flow. It's a house you've indicated you'll be in for decades.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:29
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Omne posted:Those of you who found a random mortgage company on Bankrate, what was your experience like with that? Better.com was great for our re-fi. But you should just talk to them about it. They will spell out your options. Heck the builders lender will likely change it out, I assume that rate isn't locked.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:32
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Motronic posted:These two things are the crux of the matter in my opinion. Right. This is why I can't stand "Think of it as an investment! Maximize value!" house buying advice. It's not an investment. It's a home. It's where you're going to live, make memories, possibly start or raise a family.....it's not a loving mutual fund.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:36
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Mahoning posted:Right. This is why I can't stand "Think of it as an investment! Maximize value!" house buying advice. It's not an investment. It's a home. It's where you're going to live, make memories, possibly start or raise a family.....it's not a loving mutual fund. I'm not saying take a bath on it, but give a push back and be ready to compromise. Going through this process again when you've found a house you want isn't worth it. Unless it's being used as an excuse for cold feet.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:38
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Omne posted:Those of you who found a random mortgage company on Bankrate, what was your experience like with that? Didn't use a rando company off bankrate, but wanted to make a couple comments anyway Your builder lender is going to do almost anything to fund your mortgage as they make money off that transaction as well. They'll immediately sell it, but they will probably match anything else you can find. The big question here is do you have any sort of construction incentives or upgrades, or waived fees by using the builders lender instead of your own? If so weigh those costs into your future decision. We had 6K worth of incentives if we would have used the builders lender. You're way too far out to be thinking about locking in a rate. 60 or 90 days isn't unheard of, usually it's 45 to 30 days on a lock. We financed with our CU and it was a 60 day lock. Don't worry about their initial rate. I think several people here have used Better Mortgage, and Quicken has a rate lock guarantee program. If you use a Credit Union though, give them a shot, ours was very comparable and they hold and service their own loans.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:40
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skipdogg posted:Didn't use a rando company off bankrate, but wanted to make a couple comments anyway We get $5k off at closing for using them. Also I'm not sure we're so far off locking in a rate....they've dropped quite a bit now, but if I had the opportunity to lock in a rate in January 2018 (3.95%) for a closing in May (4.66%), I think the smart money would have been to lock it in.
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Jan 3, 2019 20:53
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If you can find someone to lock you in 5, almost 6 months early at 4.0 % you might feel that's worth it. It's a gamble though, and don't forget you can always buy your rate down as well. I imagine that long of a lock would cost a point or so, maybe less. I feel your pain though. I signed papers to build last Feb and didn't close until the end of July. Rates went up about .375% over that period of time. Still I'm locked in at a historically low interest rate for 30 years so I can't complain too much.
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Jan 3, 2019 21:36
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Closed this morning. We're homeowners. 
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Jan 3, 2019 21:57
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Subjunctive posted:The appraisal didn’t tell you anything new about the house, it told you something about the broader market with no sensitivity to how it affects your specific circumstances (commute, aesthetics, proximity to stuff you care about, the cute window overlooking the patio). The broader market, in my opinion, doesn’t matter at the scale of a couple percent of purchase price because a) I’m buying it to live in and not as an investment, and b) I’m not selling into this market when the time comes anyway. $15K, making some assumptions about your lifestyle and finances, is below the amount of random market variability if you’re going to be there for a few years at least. “Find something for less than a bank will appraise it for” wasn’t one of my criteria, and unless it breaks the financial viability of the purchase I’m not sure why it’s one of yours. silvergoose posted:"When I want to move out, I'm going to be starting at a $15k loss not counting market changes" is absolutely a thing to think about, wtf are you on about? Subjunctive posted:It depends on the scale of the purchase, and if he’s buying a 1.5M home it really isn’t. EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I don't want to sound like a dick here but 15k is a totally irrelevant amount of money given what your time is worth. It would be like if someone making $60,000 annually came down to closing a real estate transaction and the numbers were off by $1,500. Would you really blow up a deal for that? Subjunctive posted:It’s really way less significant than that, because of the marginal utility of money in those financial circumstances. Ugh, that didn't turn out how I wanted it to: sellers don't want to budge that 15k. Gonna talk it over with my wife and see if we like this house enough I guess.
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Jan 3, 2019 22:05
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Residency Evil posted:Ugh, that didn't turn out how I wanted it to: sellers don't want to budge that 15k. Gonna talk it over with my wife and see if we like this house enough I guess. Please note that whatever your decision it will be cross posted into the bad with money thread.
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Jan 3, 2019 22:24
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H110Hawk posted:Please note that whatever your decision it will be cross posted into the bad with money thread. They wouldn’t be in this mess if his wife didn’t buy all those slim hangers 
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Jan 3, 2019 23:21
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I don't want to sound like a dick here but 15k is a totally irrelevant amount of money given what your time is worth. It would be like if someone making $60,000 annually came down to closing a real estate transaction and the numbers were off by $1,500. Would you really blow up a deal for that? Between this and the guy talking about a couple weeks of pay did I miss the OP saying they were making $500k plus?
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Jan 3, 2019 23:47
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Jose Valasquez posted:Between this and the guy talking about a couple weeks of pay did I miss the OP saying they were making $500k plus? It's a 2-doctor family without children.
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Jan 3, 2019 23:52
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Jose Valasquez posted:Between this and the guy talking about a couple weeks of pay did I miss the OP saying they were making $500k plus? All the long-time posters in this forum sniff one anothers farts and in some cases know one another personally or professionally. He didn't say it, but I was trying to give advice specific to his situation. By the way, I got the final figures on that deal that blew up. Initial list 695, reduced list 685, our offer 630 w/ sales contingency, their counter 675, our best and final offer 640 w/ sales contingency, they balked, ended up selling for 665 to a buyer with no sales contingency. Sad it got away, but we're in a really privileged position where we're in an incredibly affordable house we like but don't love and still meets all of our "must haves" in a neighborhood where listings last on average 3 weeks.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:18
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Omne posted:Those of you who found a random mortgage company on Bankrate, what was your experience like with that? If someone could accurately forecast mortgage rates 6 months out, they'd be making a lot of money for a firm somewhere. I lean more towards the efficient market hypothesis side of things than most posters here. But I'd argue you're best off waiting and taking the best rate you can at close rather than paying a premium to lock now. The economy is showing signs of volatility right now, so who knows which way rates are going to go.
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Jan 4, 2019 00:31
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I'm a little surprised to hear the good things about Better. When they got into the mortgage game (more like when they bought a mortgage company with PE money looking to disrupt the mortgage game), they were a nightmare to work with on their conforming loans. I guess they got better (pun intended) over the past few years?
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