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Xealot posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? Here, a quick recap:  And vice versa.
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Jan 4, 2019 21:10
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BravestoftheLamps has lazily antagonized in this thread for the last time. I've tried to allow them a chance to discuss the film and their criticisms/interpretations, and they have in returned decided to antagonize others every single time. If they post in this thread specifically any more, they will be banned. If you have any complaints, please DM me so I can ignore you.
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Jan 4, 2019 22:12
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Thank God.
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Jan 4, 2019 22:13
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How many subforums/threads does that make that botl is banned from now? It’s a pretty big pile
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Jan 4, 2019 22:41
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Who cares? He’s gone. Let’s get back to talking about how awesome representation is and all the adorable little 4-year-olds who’re gonna be freaking out in theatres about this movie.
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Jan 4, 2019 23:11
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isn't "4 year old enjoys movie" the sort of quality discourse we created blockbuster video for
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Jan 5, 2019 00:16
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ungulateman posted:isn't "4 year old enjoys movie" the sort of quality discourse we created blockbuster video for okay, now go back and look closer at the post to find what other context there is for the child and the movie
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Jan 5, 2019 00:55
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I really feel like a movie having representation in it doesn’t automatically excuse it from criticism.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:34
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grieving for Gandalf posted:okay, now go back and look closer at the post to find what other context there is for the child and the movie the idea that kids should only be inspired by people that look like them is bad and promotes weird essentialist concepts of race that are totally foreign to me as a non-american
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Jan 5, 2019 01:35
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Pirate Jet posted:I really feel like a movie having representation in it doesn’t automatically excuse it from criticism. it's bad criticism fam
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Jan 5, 2019 01:35
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the hydra!
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Jan 5, 2019 01:36
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ungulateman posted:the idea that kids should only be inspired by people that look like them is bad and promotes weird essentialist concepts of race that are totally foreign to me as a non-american Okay. Nobody said that, though.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:37
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You cut off one lamp and seven new lamps take its place, each more furiously stupid than the last
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Jan 5, 2019 01:38
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Augus posted:it's bad criticism fam That’s cool, I just think people should address it on the grounds of it being bad criticism instead of accusing him of hating kids or whatever. Pick posted:You cut off one lamp and seven new lamps take its place, each more furiously stupid than the last This is basically what I’m talking about, now the discussion is poisoned and having even slight misgivings about the movie makes you BotL for some reason.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:41
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different opinions are cool and good
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Jan 5, 2019 01:41
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it's wrong for the black four year old from Brooklyn to not yet understand that he should strive to identify fully with white men , who likewise expend great effort to fully understand him and the experiences he will encounter in his life
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Jan 5, 2019 01:45
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Pick posted:it's wrong for the black four year old from Brooklyn to not yet understand that he should strive to identify fully with white men , who likewise expend great effort to fully understand him and the experiences he will encounter in his life Nobody is saying this.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:51
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Pirate Jet posted:That’s cool, I just think people should address it on the grounds of it being bad criticism instead of accusing him of hating kids or whatever. it was addressed as bad criticism ages ago but he digs deeper and retreats into irony which is exhausting for everyone. move on from this
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Jan 5, 2019 01:51
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Augus posted:it was addressed as bad criticism ages ago but he digs deeper and retreats into irony which is exhausting. move on from this I didn’t even bring up BotL, you did. I was just agreeing that it’s dumb to claim that a random anecdote of a black kid enjoying seeing another black kid in the movie is a better topic of discussion than anything in the actual movie. Representation is good, but it doesn’t excuse a movie from criticism.
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Jan 5, 2019 01:53
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Pirate Jet posted:I didn’t even bring up BotL, you did. I was just agreeing that it’s dumb to claim that a random anecdote of a black kid enjoying seeing another black kid in the movie is a better topic of discussion than anything in the actual movie. First of all, happy kids are awesome and it’s always good to have fun conversations about them. Second, I never said people shouldn’t talk about the movie. I said talking about happy kids is better than still talking about a pathologically dedicated shitposter who’s been exiled from the thread, which is an objective fact. Nobody’s forcing you to talk about kids.
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Jan 5, 2019 02:02
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Pirate Jet posted:I didn’t even bring up BotL, you did. I was just agreeing that it’s dumb to claim that a random anecdote of a black kid enjoying seeing another black kid in the movie is a better topic of discussion than anything in the actual movie. Then maybe just let it go talk about the film then instead of being like 5th-hand mad by proxy about a 4 year old really liking a comic book movie.
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Jan 5, 2019 02:03
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nine-gear crow posted:Then maybe just let it go talk about the film then instead of being like 5th-hand mad by proxy about a 4 year old really liking a comic book movie. Sure. Miles' arc is truncated in a really unfortunate way - the pacing of the movie is breakneck, there's simply too much content to cram into a movie this short. Sacrificing any of the three Spider-Men who don't accomplish anything might have solved it or might not have, but what matters is that the end result isn't Miles actually "learning to be Spider-Man." This isn't a coming of age story for Miles - his maturation into Spider-Man comes when he gets lucky taking the oft-mentioned "leap of faith" and not because of any lessons he learns. Even the last blow Fisk lands on Miles is framed similarly and makes a similar motion to Parker's death blow, meant to reference it - but Miles survives it because... his dad is cheering him on? There's not really any explanation as to why Miles succeeds where Parker failed other than that he's got a taser in his palm. It's implied through the shoulder touch reference, the presence of his dad, and the "I'll always have my family" line that Miles pulls it off because of those connections, but then that creates some weird implications that Parker failed because he doesn't have one. It's driven home by the fact that Uncle Aaron is done in by his own decisions and not Miles', which isn't even comparable to Uncle Ben dying because Parker failed to learn his core lesson, which taught him to actually pay heed to it - and made even weirder by the next scene, where the Spider-People tell him that losing someone you care about is just intrinsic to the idea of being a hero. Not only is it not really true, it's also not applicable here.
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Jan 5, 2019 02:26
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nine-gear crow posted:Then maybe just let it go talk about the film then instead of being like 5th-hand mad by proxy about a 4 year old really liking a comic book movie. It's a good movie. That four year old has good taste. And it's really thematically cool, because Mile's big moment is finally making Spider-Man move from being a thing he purchased to a thing that's part of him, using his talents and sense of aesthetics to make something based off the past, but distinct. It's almost like the film is acknowledging that it's based around a corporate product while celebrating both the initial intent, and how people can interpret that intent to make something matter to them.
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Jan 5, 2019 03:22
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Once upon a time BotL would have been banned for that bullshit attack on a kid enjoying a hero that looks like him. Those days were great just like this movie was. I think that there can be some debate about the arc that Miles undergoes, but his story was never Peter's and doesn't have to mirror that one exactly to be a good one. Uncle Aaron dying because he chose to be a villainous lackey isn't directly Mile's fault, but the guilt Miles feels about how he died is very real and tangible whether he should feel it objectively or not. Which I think is the point the spider people want to impress upon him (the whole getting back up again, choosing to be a force for good etc through lines). Some kind of loss powers them all and it doesn't matter if it didn't come in the same shape or size as theirs. They empathize with the fact that becoming spider man cost him someone he really cared about, none of them chose that either, and that helps him realize he can be one of them too.
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Jan 5, 2019 03:51
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How did he "attack a kid"?
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Jan 5, 2019 03:59
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Pirate Jet posted:Sure. Miles, like Gwen with her precognitive Spidey-Sense or Ham with his ability to pull mallets out of nothing, is just a better and more potent Spider-person than either Peter. Fellas don't even have organic webs.
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Jan 5, 2019 04:50
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Mameluke posted:Miles, like Gwen with her precognitive Spidey-Sense or Ham with his ability to pull mallets out of nothing, is just a better and more potent Spider-person than either Peter. Fellas don't even have organic webs. Neither did Miles, he had some of Peter's old webshooters  Also was I totally wrong or during the news eulogy for blonde Peter did they mention he was survived by a wife and daughter? I thought I caught that but it never comes up later and Peter B Parker doesn't mention it during any of his stuff.
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Jan 5, 2019 05:03
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Zore posted:Neither did Miles, he had some of Peter's old webshooters Wife and aunt.
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Jan 5, 2019 05:15
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Pirate Jet posted:Sure. Taking the leap is the development and it's what the movie is building up to the entire time. Miles is already capable of being Spider-Man. The thing that holds him back the entire time is that he is afraid of taking the leap. The entire movie up to then is about Miles sabotaging himself out of fear of failure. He's afraid of his new school so he actively tries to flunk out. He's afraid of talking to a girl so he tries to act cool and humiliates himself and her. He's afraid to confront his uncle when he turns out to be a supervillain so he delays the confrontation until the last possible moment, by which point it's too late to fix things. He's afraid of being a hero because he watched his own hero die. Miles already knows that with great power comes great responsibility. But he's afraid of that responsibility. The arc is about him learning to face his fears, not about learning how to shoot webs. And no it doesn't even remotely imply that Peter Parker died because he had no family. He had a loving wife and aunt, both of which knew his secret and helped him do what he did. His aunt freakin ran his high-tech underground mission control,and knew exactly how to build his web shooters. C'mon.
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Jan 5, 2019 05:52
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I'm pretty sure miles survives the blow not because he had family but because he hadn't just been in a massive interdimensional explosion
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Jan 5, 2019 05:58
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I Before E posted:I'm pretty sure miles survives the blow not because he had family but because he hadn't just been in a massive interdimensional explosion Yeah, Peter was clearly expecting to die even before Kingpin landed the final blow.
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Jan 5, 2019 06:53
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This was so much fun and looked and sounded great. Super hero movies feel like they’re 90% CG, but they never look this good and stylish. I bet Venom would look very cool in this world. Whenever i thought it was going to get too clichéd, it never ended up being a problem. some mild plot spoiler ex The dad cop who hates spider man, the other spider people being comic relief gimmicks, mopey Peter B., evil uncle (gets uncle ben’ed), etc. But it was pretty messed up for MJ to go to Kingpin’s dinner where all of the servers were dressed as her dead superhero husband. I liked how Miles looked at comics for inspiration. Sort of made me think of how in zombie movies, no one seems to understand the concept of zombies and bashing them in the head. But in this world where super heroes exist, he had something for reference (which should happen in zombie movies). Also liked how he wore a store-bought costume. If I see this again, I may actually try the 3D version. Cute, funny, and action-packed movie. Wish it was a little bit longer. I think Spiderverse and Teen Titans Go were my favourite comic book movies this year. Also I liked seeing the spider-sense lines :3
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Jan 5, 2019 07:35
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ungulateman posted:the idea that kids should only be inspired by people that look like them is bad and promotes weird essentialist concepts of race that are totally foreign to me as a non-american I see this thread has already hit the "being European makes me perfectly race-blind" point of posting.
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Jan 5, 2019 08:07
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I hate comic book movies, I can't stand Spiderman, but I loving loved this movie. It was original, it was beautiful, it was smart - hell more than anything it was actually funny. And as a New Yorker, it made the city it's own loving character. I love everything around Miles and I hope they never make a sequel to this movie. There was like, half a dozen times, I was bawling my loving eyes out to this movie, and for a goddamn cartoon, it was the realest poo poo I've ever seen. The team actually loving tried to take the animation budget they had, and made something truly loving original. I came in to the theater at least expecting to enjoy the movie, and walked away with my mind loving blown with how the adapted the best of the comic book medium to the cinematic format in a way that never felt like a waste of my goddamn time. Truly a loving artistic accomplishment. Also gently caress me I'm so excited for Netflix Punisher Season 2.
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Jan 5, 2019 09:22
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mycot posted:I see this thread has already hit the "being European makes me perfectly race-blind" point of posting. this is an embarrassingly bad attempt to own me either way, but i'm not european
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Jan 5, 2019 09:31
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People are being weirdly dismissive about the possibility of a kid enjoying something that may reflect his own identity, cultural interests or experiences. gently caress, maybe he just likes Spider-Man and is jazzed someone younger than 20 gets to fill the shoes for once. Yes, we are not quite at the point where every subgroup enjoys the luxury of a great representative story or three. No, it doesn't mean we are teaching our kids to only identify with people superficially like them. How broken is your capacity for empathy that the takeaway from that cute anecdote is "Ahh, yes, toxic essentialist racialism :puffs pipe:" Pirate Jet posted:Sure. The Notorious ZSB posted:I think that there can be some debate about the arc that Miles undergoes, but his story was never Peter's and doesn't have to mirror that one exactly to be a good one. I felt the film is kind of bookended by the No Expectations / Great Expectations stuff, and the real resolution is Miles being able to integrate/move within the various settings/domains/worlds that were alienating at the beginning. Maybe that's a little cliche for a person who is bicultural/biracial/bilingual to struggle with, and certainly the multiverse theme works to that dizzying sense of possibility in the Teen years, but I thought I was all well done and very relatable. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Jan 5, 2019 |
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Jan 5, 2019 10:14
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Being caught between different worlds is probably a super common experience for young people these days.
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Jan 5, 2019 10:34
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's a stretch. lol why is it that ppl with bad movie opinions invariably refuse to believe that we need more movies with minority heroes. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jan 5, 2019 |
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Jan 5, 2019 16:39
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As much as I love Lord and Miller, and their frenetic directing style, I would absolutely love them to do a more sedate movie. The visuals are great, but there's so much being hurled around at once it's hard to take in all the little details (the *BAGEL*, the half a second of perfectly synchronised THWIPS in the final fight) and I like to have a little more breathing room. The final fight has me utterly convinced that this team should be put in charge of the Sandman movie.
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Jan 5, 2019 16:57
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Strom Cuzewon posted:As much as I love Lord and Miller, and their frenetic directing style, I would absolutely love them to do a more sedate movie. The visuals are great, but there's so much being hurled around at once it's hard to take in all the little details (the *BAGEL*, the half a second of perfectly synchronised THWIPS in the final fight) and I like to have a little more breathing room. Only Lord worked on this movie, and as a writer. Of the three credited directors of this film, Peter Ramesy is the only one with a previous feature film directing credit for Rise of the Guardians at Dreamworks while Rodney Rothman has mostly been writing and producing in television and Bob Persichetti has been doing storyboard artwork at Dreamworks. That's another triumph of this movie, the fact that it's by and large the product of so many newcomers. One of major problems that Pixar and to a lesser extent Disney has had with this past generation is that they've been doing a really bad job actively cultivating new talent in favor of letting the same close-knit group run everything and then bringing in outside talent like Rich Moore while suffering brain drain from new talent jumping ship for greener pastures as soon as they've proven themselves. And we're at the point where the original batch of golden boys are either dying off or retiring (willingly or otherwise, in the case of John Lasseter) and the pool of replacements isn't as deep and wide as it should be.
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Jan 5, 2019 17:34
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