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Beef Hardcheese posted:I think a lot of times discussion about the content would gravitate towards the relevant thread elsewhere on the forums (mainly D&D). Yeah. I read In Cold Blood by Truman Capote last year (doesn't really fit this thread unless you count a portrait of Kansas in the early 1900s to be history) but any talk about it fit better in the PYF unnerving article thread. As for stuff like reading about WWI, there's the Military history thread in Ask/Tell, and so on. Not that I don't like this thread - it's just that I get a bit annoyed when there's three new posts! And it's three people asking for different book recs.
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Jan 2, 2019 16:47
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we do get into discussions about the content. periodically i start pages-long arguments about the french revolution, for example
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Jan 2, 2019 18:25
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Sorry for asking about history books in the history book thread, friends. Generally not a huge fan of Reddit, but /r/AskHistorians has a suggested reading list that is pretty expansive and covers a lot of different subjects and time periods for anyone else who was trying to find something specific.
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Jan 2, 2019 19:04
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I'd personally take their suggestions with a grain of salt. Each section seems to be curated by individuals and prone to some interesting biases. From the section on Russia recommending Pipes' work: quote:Pipes has a somewhat conservative take on events, but the writing clearly quarantines his opinion away from his facts, and, well, for someone who still remembers standing in line around the block for stale bread in winter of '92, like myself, his harsh criticism is not unjustified.
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Jan 2, 2019 23:46
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Minenfeld! posted:I'd personally take their suggestions with a grain of salt. Each section seems to be curated by individuals and prone to some interesting biases. Oh I can't personally vouch for any of them, honestly. A few of the books on the Ancient Near East seemed to be pretty well regarded when I looked into them.
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Jan 2, 2019 23:55
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Minenfeld! posted:I'd personally take their suggestions with a grain of salt. Each section seems to be curated by individuals and prone to some interesting biases. lmao at anyone recommending someone read Pipes in the year
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Jan 3, 2019 00:45
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Meridian posted:Oh I can't personally vouch for any of them, honestly. A few of the books on the Ancient Near East seemed to be pretty well regarded when I looked into them. Fair. They do list a variety of more academic works which I personally do find useful.
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Jan 3, 2019 00:45
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Minenfeld! posted:Fair. Yeah I was hoping to find some books on ancient history that had more substance than a 25 minute history channel documentary. Thanks for the heads up though, I will definitely do my research before pulling the trigger on any of those.
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Jan 3, 2019 01:02
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This thread makes me sad because looking at the title it it seemed like the most appropriate place for me to talk about what I've been reading lately like Imagined Communities, Seeing Like a State, and The Siege of Mecca. So it's unfortunate the thread is really bad and there's no discussion beyond lazy trolling and unrequited requests for recommended reading. Admittedly I only clicked the thread so I could ask for some suggestions myself but it hardly seems worthwhile now.
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Jan 3, 2019 02:36
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Squalid posted:This thread makes me sad because looking at the title it it seemed like the most appropriate place for me to talk about what I've been reading lately like Imagined Communities, Seeing Like a State, and The Siege of Mecca. So it's unfortunate the thread is really bad and there's no discussion beyond lazy trolling and unrequited requests for recommended reading. Admittedly I only clicked the thread so I could ask for some suggestions myself but it hardly seems worthwhile now. Imagined Communities was a great book, so please talk about it.
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Jan 3, 2019 03:37
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Epicurius posted:Imagined Communities was a great book, so please talk about it. Well I still have a few hours of it left but the premise seems both very simple but also very powerful. In Anderson's telling, nations, or imagined communities, are created through participation in collective rituals through which their experiences are transformed into a sense of common interest and experience. These rituals can be as mundane as reading the same morning newspaper as your compatriots, or as complicated as the hajj. As the hajj creates a sense of the ummah for Muslims, we can think back to our own secular pilgrimages to places of national cultural significance like Independence Hall in Philadelphia reinforce collective identities. Anderson believes language is key to this process of creating modern nations, and while I'm sure its very important I feel like it is over-emphasized for example on the Wikipedia page for the book. More important are the stories we begin to tell ourselves as we continue the life-journeys that create communities. Jews today from different countries for example might not always speak the same language, but they can speak in shared symbols, stories and life experience, and that has been enough I think to create a nation of a sort within the diaspora. A nation that thinks as much about its own collective self-interest as much as any other. Even though the basic idea is simple it explains a lot and even begins to give hints at what might come in the future. For example Anderson explains why Indochina broke up when Indonesia stuck together by explaining how in the Dutch East Indies, all the ambitious students, aspiring politicians, and business people were funneled through the capital of batavia where they learned bahasa indonesia, came to know one another and shared their stories of colonization and feelings of animosity under the subjugation of the Dutch yoke. By contrast, in Indochina the French followed a strategy of divide and conquer to separate the Lao from Vietnamese, and Cambodians even if they weren't officially discriminated against found themselves relegated local provincial positions in the future Cambodia where their political class could sulk and begin to conspire against the Vietnamese who blocked their hopes of political advancement. Thinking along these lines it strikes me that if the leaders of the EU are serious about "creating an ever closer union" perhaps the most powerful tool they have to bring it about is the Erasmus program. By breaking students out from their confines of their native states they can create a new transnational class with a sense of common destiny, determined defend the European project. Without that feeling petty national jealousies will always threaten to tear the whole system apart, and cold arguments about rational economic interests will never be enough to keep those feelings at bay.
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Jan 3, 2019 06:34
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Meridian posted:Does anyone have some suggestions for books on ancient Assyria, Sumeria or Babylon? i really enjoyed paul kriwaczek's babylon not directly an answer, but if you haven't read 1177 BC by eric cline, that's probably in line with your interests
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Jan 3, 2019 10:21
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Squalid posted:Thinking along these lines it strikes me that if the leaders of the EU are serious about "creating an ever closer union" perhaps the most powerful tool they have to bring it about is the Erasmus program. By breaking students out from their confines of their native states they can create a new transnational class with a sense of common destiny, determined defend the European project. Without that feeling petty national jealousies will always threaten to tear the whole system apart, and cold arguments about rational economic interests will never be enough to keep those feelings at bay. I know you didn't present this as your own ideal, but "the EU should create a supranational cosmopolitan elite to rule over the monoglot plebs and impose their values on them" is a truly fascinating take in the current climate
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Jan 3, 2019 11:12
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chernobyl kinsman posted:i really enjoyed paul kriwaczek's babylon Thank you, I really appreciate the suggestion.
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Jan 3, 2019 11:30
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Ras Het posted:I know you didn't present this as your own ideal, but "the EU should create a supranational cosmopolitan elite to rule over the monoglot plebs and impose their values on them" is a truly fascinating take in the current climate Well in an era when 30%+ of the population and increasing has a bachelors degree I'd question how elite people with that status really are. On a broader scale, labor mobility within the EU is much lower than that in the United States, and increasing those rates is probably the simplest way to create a sense of common destiny. As for the elite, you need to create a circumstance where the Boris Johnsons of Europe aspire and conspire towards a position in Brussels rather than the regional capital, so that they are not tempted to scapegoat it for local problems.
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Jan 3, 2019 17:14
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I'm re-reading Massie's Dreadnought and although I am enjoying it, more or less, it's quite clear on a re-read that Massie is a huge mark for Fisher and there's really a degree of veneration towards Fisher that isn't as present in other historical figures.
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Jan 3, 2019 18:07
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Squalid posted:Well in an era when 30%+ of the population and increasing has a bachelors degree I'd question how elite people with that status really are. On a broader scale, labor mobility within the EU is much lower than that in the United States, and increasing those rates is probably the simplest way to create a sense of common destiny. As for the elite, you need to create a circumstance where the Boris Johnsons of Europe aspire and conspire towards a position in Brussels rather than the regional capital, so that they are not tempted to scapegoat it for local problems. Hmm, do you think perhaps the EU should also declare an official language (German, of course) and begin punishing anyone using other languages to foster assimilation? And perhaps begin demolishing landmarks that might remind people of their local culture as opposed to a pan-European culture?
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Jan 3, 2019 23:41
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Neurosis posted:Hmm, do you think perhaps the EU should also declare an official language (German, of course) and begin punishing anyone using other languages to foster assimilation? And perhaps begin demolishing landmarks that might remind people of their local culture as opposed to a pan-European culture? That doesn’t sound like it would promote a European community at all!
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Jan 4, 2019 00:44
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lol if you haven't realized that the EU is in its death throes, or that it was a doomed project from the very beginning
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Jan 4, 2019 00:55
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Its the HRE 2.0
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Jan 4, 2019 02:44
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Tekopo posted:I'm re-reading Massie's Dreadnought and although I am enjoying it, more or less, it's quite clear on a re-read that Massie is a huge mark for Fisher and there's really a degree of veneration towards Fisher that isn't as present in other historical figures. You recommend it? I loving loved Nicholas and Alexandra and I'm currently enjoying Catherine the Great
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Jan 4, 2019 03:49
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Bob A Feet posted:You recommend it?
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Jan 4, 2019 12:53
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Massie's "Peter the Great" is one of my favourite biographies.
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Jan 4, 2019 14:35
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xcheopis posted:Massie's "Peter the Great" is one of my favourite biographies. I need to re-read that, last time was like thirty years ago. Are Massie's other works better or worse?
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Jan 4, 2019 16:41
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Any good histories on the Dreyfus affair?
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Jan 5, 2019 19:14
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A Dapper Walrus posted:Any good histories on the Dreyfus affair? Barbara Tuchman's The Proud Tower devotes at least a chapter to it. The whole book is great though.
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Jan 5, 2019 19:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I need to re-read that, last time was like thirty years ago. Are Massie's other works better or worse? His Catherine bio was on par. The subject is more sympathetic, at least.
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Jan 5, 2019 19:46
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I believe Phillippe Oriol's book on Dreyfus is the most up to date, but I don't think it's been translated to English. I've shamefully only read accounts in biographies of Proust and Zola, but they were helpful. I think Frederick Brown's For the Soul of France is supposed to be good, but I haven't read it yet, so I can't confirm.
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Jan 5, 2019 21:23
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is there a good book on nicky the 2nd and the end of the romanovs that isnt trying to paint them as sad romantics or some poo poo. like i don't mind painting them as some what tragic, but i want a book that shows nicky 2 as the failson dipshit that he was.
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Jan 6, 2019 02:22
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A Dapper Walrus posted:Any good histories on the Dreyfus affair? Ruth Harris"s book is good.
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Jan 6, 2019 02:23
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Squalid posted:
Yes, a very cosmoplitan class without those cumbersome traditional "roots" which are holding back places like Hungary and Poland. A "rootless cosmopolitan," if you will.
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Jan 6, 2019 03:30
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Dapper_Swindler posted:is there a good book on nicky the 2nd and the end of the romanovs that isnt trying to paint them as sad romantics or some poo poo. like i don't mind painting them as some what tragic, but i want a book that shows nicky 2 as the failson dipshit that he was. imo the best book about this is Mark Steinberg, The Fall of the Romanovs
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Jan 6, 2019 04:58
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Has anyone assayed Lord Sumption's Hundred Years War history? It's a four-volume loving behemoth but I've heard rave reviews of it.
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Jan 6, 2019 05:43
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I need to re-read that, last time was like thirty years ago. Are Massie's other works better or worse? I've read "Nicholas and Alexandra" and thought it good. It just didn't affect me as much as "Peter". Possibly it suffered from my reading it almost immediately after, when I should have let the first bubble about for a bit.
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Jan 6, 2019 06:25
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Dapper_Swindler posted:is there a good book on nicky the 2nd and the end of the romanovs that isnt trying to paint them as sad romantics or some poo poo. like i don't mind painting them as some what tragic, but i want a book that shows nicky 2 as the failson dipshit that he was. Nicholas and Alexandra comes close to what you want. If I remember it paints him as a good husband and father but just all around bad ruler who couldn’t control ministers, his wife, or Rasputin. Or his people. Or the world. Great book. If Peter the Great is as good, I can’t wait to read it. Probably gonna do Dreadnaught next. Just finished Sleepwalkers and I’m digging this WWI kick Im on.
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Jan 7, 2019 02:27
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Looking for something on the spread of christianity to and throughout Europe?
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Jan 11, 2019 23:39
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Dukket posted:Looking for something on the spread of christianity to and throughout Europe? Not exactly the focus you're asking for, but Diarmaid MacCulloch's Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years is a pretty good survey of church history, including into and through Europe. His Reformation history is also good if you're interested in that period.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:22
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Dukket posted:Looking for something on the spread of christianity to and throughout Europe? Ehrman's Lost Christianities touches on this, but is more focused on doctrinal dominance. Still a fantastic read, and the subjects are intertwined so worthwhile for your needs.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:24
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Cool, those both sound great!
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Jan 12, 2019 19:39
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lost Christianities is great but it's really only concerned with the first few hundred years of christianity at most; you're not going to read much (anything?) about its spread into Europe i would recommend richard fletcher's the conversion of europe, which is about exactly what it sounds like. runs from some of the earliest missionary activities to conversion of the Lithuanians in the late 14th century
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Jan 12, 2019 20:44
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