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Jedit posted:I always enjoyed Thirdspace. It's a huge goofy SF adventure, and it provides just the right amount of glimpse beyond the veil to be properly Lovecraftian. I like Thirdspace too. It's not good, but it's fun low-budget horror.
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Jan 6, 2019 14:24
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I think Jerry Doyle might've been a bad choice of casting for Garibaldi. The way the character is written, he's supposed to be more grumpy and bedraggled, especially with the references to Daffy Duck, but the actor seemed more interested in playing up the whole smug omnicapable angle, so he never really seemed like he was on a low point unless he was actually made unconscious so he couldn't smug it up. The whole former alcoholic angle is barely visible.
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Jan 6, 2019 17:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think Jerry Doyle might've been a bad choice of casting for Garibaldi. The way the character is written, he's supposed to be more grumpy and bedraggled, especially with the references to Daffy Duck, but the actor seemed more interested in playing up the whole smug omnicapable angle, so he never really seemed like he was on a low point unless he was actually made unconscious so he couldn't smug it up. The whole former alcoholic angle is barely visible. I always liked Garibaldi. He always seemed to walk this edge between super-capable and pretending to be super-capable. Many addicts go through cycles just like Garibaldi's, including the pretending-everything-is-fine-with-moments-of-brilliance-to-prove-it phase.
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Jan 6, 2019 17:27
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ConfusedUs posted:I always liked Garibaldi. He always seemed to walk this edge between super-capable and pretending to be super-capable. Also it plays into Bester's mental suggestion. Garibaldi getting distant and angry at Sheridan to the point he turns on him was just taking Garibaldi's natural tendancies and turning up the dial. It's so subtle a trick that the audience won't realize something's actually been done to him until Bester steps into that travel tube. As far as you can can tell, he's just finally spiraling out of control for good.
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Jan 6, 2019 17:32
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think Jerry Doyle might've been a bad choice of casting for Garibaldi. The way the character is written, he's supposed to be more grumpy and bedraggled, especially with the references to Daffy Duck, but the actor seemed more interested in playing up the whole smug omnicapable angle, so he never really seemed like he was on a low point unless he was actually made unconscious so he couldn't smug it up. The whole former alcoholic angle is barely visible. Claudia Christian was a practicing alcoholic while she was filming the show and it was barely visible.
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Jan 6, 2019 17:48
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Jerry Doyle himself was a recovering alcoholic and of course there was Jeff Conaway as well.
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Jan 6, 2019 18:05
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Jedit posted:I always enjoyed Thirdspace. It's a huge goofy SF adventure, and it provides just the right amount of glimpse beyond the veil to be properly Lovecraftian. I don't remember any of the movies offending me like Legend of the Rangers, but I also couldn't tell you what any of them were about other than In the Beginning. They existed and then slipped from my mind and I have no real desire to watch them again.
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Jan 6, 2019 18:07
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think Jerry Doyle might've been a bad choice of casting for Garibaldi. The way the character is written, he's supposed to be more grumpy and bedraggled, especially with the references to Daffy Duck, but the actor seemed more interested in playing up the whole smug omnicapable angle, so he never really seemed like he was on a low point unless he was actually made unconscious so he couldn't smug it up. The whole former alcoholic angle is barely visible. For better or for worse, Jerry Doyle was playing Jerry Doyle and they just called him Garibaldi.
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Jan 6, 2019 20:13
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Just finished episode 10 of season 3, ‘Severed Dreams.’ Too many chills-inducing moments to count, in this and the last two episodes. Funnily it seems though my last effortpost on what I saw as the nature of the show’s approach to belief becomes both obvious and self-conscious as the series goes on, what with the stressing of the idea that ‘faith manages’ and episodes like ‘Walking in Gethsemane’ that practically spell out the point I was making outright. There are innumerable flaws with B5, many of which surely result in people dropping the show before getting through more than a couple episodes. Ham-fisted writing, scenery-chewing actors, often-clumsy effects, and so on; while I’m continuing not to read this thread while I watch I’m sure nobody here disagrees. Yet none of the flaws really seem to matter in the face of the value of the show’s narrative. Episode after episode, Babylon 5 rationalizes its own existence because every second of it positively vibrates with purpose - if not with polish. Based on what I’ve seen and read, I credit this chiefly to the presence of a creator who had something to say and took direct responsibility for making sure it was said, through thorough planning, personally writing episodes, and maintaining creative control - aided by the casting of actors who increasingly have come to understand and embody the themes driving the show. Not to get all Linus commending the sincerity of the pumpkin patch but as someone who really doesn’t watch a lot of tv and usually feels bored after a few episodes of other shows, I don’t feel a moment of regret watching Babylon 5 because I and presumably everyone who bothers to post here feels and values the sincerity infused in the show beyond any lapses in craftsmanship. And the craftsmanship isn’t always mediocre - it’s often excellent, and increasingly so. The elevator scene with G’Kar and Londo is among the best and best-performed moments I’ve ever scene in tv, film or stage. Brilliant work by Katsulas especially in making the unconventional actor’s choices, in G’Kar’s laughter and especially the adlibbing at the end, that make the scene so funny and simultaneously so real and rewarding. Kashia fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 14:33
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Kashia posted:And the craftsmanship isn’t always mediocre - it’s often excellent, and increasingly so. The elevator scene with G’Kar and Londo is among the best and best-performed moments I’ve ever scene in tv, film or stage. Brilliant work by Katsulas especially in making the unconventional actor’s choices, in G’Kar’s laughter and especially the adlibbing at the end, that make the scene so funny and simultaneously so real and rewarding. Just as an FYI, that elevator screen was all G'Kar adlibbing. The script called for G'Kar to be dour and serious the entire scene, and Katsulas took the scene to a logical conclusion instead - a colossal cosmic joke  .
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Jan 7, 2019 15:24
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Just as an FYI, that elevator screen was all G'Kar adlibbing. The script called for G'Kar to be dour and serious the entire scene, and Katsulas took the scene to a logical conclusion instead - a colossal cosmic joke The script doesn't call for anything at all, beyond saying that G'Kar "nods uncommittally" after Londo suggests they could force their way out through the ceiling, and that he hums to himself after the "up yours. Die" lines. JMS himself describes the scene as-written as presenting G'Kar with a "fairly straight-forward and Zen-like" attitude, "quietly content and happy." Katsulas was absolutely the one to find this interpretation, but what was on the page didn't actively conflict with his take. He just knew precisely how far to go. I'll also note (not to be contrary to Kashia) that the difference between scenery-chewing and the elevator scene, from an actor's standpoint, is that one performance doesn't work and the other does. Scenery-chewing isn't a flaw, it's the consequence of taking performance risks that don't pan out. Certainly, it can be a sign of a bad or uncaring actor, but it's at least as likely that the performer thinks that a particular set of lines or a whole characterization is flawed and that the only way to salvage the situation is to take bigger performative risks. Making a TV series isn't a puzzle where you can simply not do wrong things, it's a series of choices which inevitably involve trade-offs and often the choices that lead to the biggest potential flaws also lead to the greatest accomplishments. On balance, B5's risk-to-reward ratio involves fairly high risks and comparably high rewards, especially given the many constraints under which the show was made.
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Jan 7, 2019 20:36
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Or if you are Brian Blessed it means literally gnawing on bits of scenery. 
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Jan 7, 2019 22:15
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In keeping with this thread's title W. Morgan Sheppard died yesterday.Wikipedia posted:Sheppard appeared in two roles on the science-fiction series Babylon 5—in the episode "Soul Hunter" playing the eponymous character and also played Narn war leader G'Sten, an uncle of main character G'Kar, in "The Long Twilight Struggle". He was also a runner-up for the role of Ambassador G'Kar on the series, though the role eventually went to Andreas Katsulas.
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Jan 8, 2019 03:24
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Kashia posted:There are innumerable flaws with B5, many of which surely result in people dropping the show before getting through more than a couple episodes. Ham-fisted writing, scenery-chewing actors, often-clumsy effects, and so on; while I’m continuing not to read this thread while I watch I’m sure nobody here disagrees. We might disagree whether ham-fisted scenery-chewing is a flaw at all.  (Glad to hear you're enjoying the show!)
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Jan 8, 2019 04:46
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I gave up at the beginning of season five. Is there any point they beat the shadow spiders and won the civil war whats next?
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Jan 8, 2019 07:39
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Otto Von Jizzmark posted:I gave up at the beginning of season five. Is there any point they beat the shadow spiders and won the civil war whats next? There is a hole in your mind and you should fill it with season 5 .
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Jan 8, 2019 07:47
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Otto Von Jizzmark posted:I gave up at the beginning of season five. Is there any point they beat the shadow spiders and won the civil war whats next? The stuff you have to do after you win two wars.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:51
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nashona posted:In keeping with this thread's title W. Morgan Sheppard died yesterday. He must have been pushing 90. *checks* Yeah, 86. A goodly run, at least.
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Jan 8, 2019 09:23
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Otto Von Jizzmark posted:I gave up at the beginning of season five. Is there any point they beat the shadow spiders and won the civil war whats next? Please just keep watching (and bear though the teep stuff). If nothing else you’ll be missing the best and most moving last episode of anything anywhere, ever. But yeah there’s still more to come that’s good.
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Jan 8, 2019 12:19
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nashona posted:In keeping with this thread's title W. Morgan Sheppard died yesterday. The rarest of B5 deaths, someone dying at a reasonable age.
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Jan 9, 2019 06:12
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Narsham posted:The script doesn't call for anything at all, beyond saying that G'Kar "nods uncommittally" after Londo suggests they could force their way out through the ceiling, and that he hums to himself after the "up yours. Die" lines. This is a good post (as was the one it quoted)
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Jan 9, 2019 08:01
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Narsham posted:I'll also note (not to be contrary to Kashia) that the difference between scenery-chewing and the elevator scene, from an actor's standpoint, is that one performance doesn't work and the other does. Scenery-chewing isn't a flaw, it's the consequence of taking performance risks that don't pan out. Certainly, it can be a sign of a bad or uncaring actor, but it's at least as likely that the performer thinks that a particular set of lines or a whole characterization is flawed and that the only way to salvage the situation is to take bigger performative risks. Making a TV series isn't a puzzle where you can simply not do wrong things, it's a series of choices which inevitably involve trade-offs and often the choices that lead to the biggest potential flaws also lead to the greatest accomplishments. On balance, B5's risk-to-reward ratio involves fairly high risks and comparably high rewards, especially given the many constraints under which the show was made. This is really perceptive, and has added something to the way I think about artistic choices in general. It seems that for something to be really good, it must be surprising - and to surprise effectively means that the artist must make unusual choices, for which their compass for determining what is good is less likely to be accurate. Looks like you nailed the point - sure, the show stumbles sometimes, but on balance B5's rewards more than validate the unconventional choices taken by its creators and performers.
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Jan 9, 2019 11:51
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You can only ever give people what they expect or what they do not, the artistry is in deciding which at any given moment.
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Jan 9, 2019 12:10
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Otto Von Jizzmark posted:I gave up at the beginning of season five. Is there any point they beat the shadow spiders and won the civil war whats next? The duration's a lot longer than the war
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Jan 12, 2019 19:31
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Just started Season 3 after a bit of a break and I guess I shouldn't be surprised that PsyCore and EarthGov are working with the Shadows. It's good to see that Shadow ships aren't completely invincible but telefragging them with jump gates doesn't seem like a sustainable strategy.
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Jan 14, 2019 02:44
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That whole Mars flashback sequence was so eerie and well-executed, even with the limitations of 90s cg.
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Jan 14, 2019 02:52
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Psi Corps.
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Jan 14, 2019 03:19
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Ψ for psychic.
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Jan 14, 2019 04:23
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:That whole Mars flashback sequence was so eerie and well-executed, even with the limitations of 90s cg. The VO, score and SFX were extremely on point.
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Jan 14, 2019 06:07
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I just finished S03E08 on Friday and I can confirm that that episode is still creepy two decades later.
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Jan 14, 2019 07:49
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Not sure how I feel about this: https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1086052807705165824?s=21
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Jan 18, 2019 01:12
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Not sure how I feel about this: Wait. Is the guy upset he’ll never get to see JMS’s brain? 
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Jan 18, 2019 01:19
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Eh. Just about all the B5 universe material outside the actual shown and a handful of novels has been sort of crap. Legend of the Rangers, Lost Tales, even Crusade wasn't really up to par. I'd rather leave it where it is than be disappointed.
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Jan 18, 2019 01:30
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The best thing about Crusade was Commander Bill Lumbergh
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Jan 18, 2019 01:57
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Data Graham posted:The best thing about Crusade was Commander Bill Lumbergh I really liked crusade. This is mostly because as a goth maths teenager I wanted to shag Galen :P
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Jan 18, 2019 02:04
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The actual best thing was getting to hear Peter Woolward's lyrical high English accent on a weekly basis
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Jan 18, 2019 02:09
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the technomages are one of the least interesting parts of B5
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Jan 18, 2019 03:19
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:the technomages are one of the least interesting parts of B5 They worked as a one-off thing you only get to see the fringe of to imply they're far greater than they let on, but not as a recurring central element in a show.
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Jan 18, 2019 03:22
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Yeah, JMS' love for LotR boiled over with the insertion of Clarke's Third Law Wizards, but at least budget concerns kept the tomfoolery generally pretty low on Crusade. The hijinx Galen got up to in the pilot that was papered up and down with network notes to make it more actiony and 'badass' were just embarrassing, though.
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Jan 18, 2019 05:26
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I like the overall premise of Crusade quite a bit, largely because in other Notable Science Fiction Properties they interact with an awful lot of hypertech and yet somehow it seems to have no effect on the actual world. The premise of "How would galactic civilization cope with having access to technology it's just not ready for?" was a pretty good one. The execution was, well....what it was. Thanks a bunch TNT, I guess?
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