Into the Spider-Verse: "Did *that* feel like a cartoon?"

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Into the Spider-Verse: "Did *that* feel like a cartoon?"

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Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

I had a female friend who worked at Pixar and it made her almost suicidal how horrible it was to be a woman there. She moved on to advertising.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 17:37

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:54

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Shageletic posted:

lol why is it that ppl with bad movie opinions invariably refuse to believe that we need more movies with minority heroes.

I know it's trolling/socratic gadflying, but there was a similar line of thought being thrown about in the Black Panther thread and... yeah it's starting to get uncomfortable.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 17:53

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

It's not trolling. It's racism.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 18:00

Phylodox: Mar 30, 2006; College Slice

Pick posted:

It's not trolling. It's racism.

Porque no los dos?

# ? Jan 5, 2019 18:02

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

If I were president, I would make it a crime for superheroes to be white. Maybe one or two women but they can't look like they're moonlighting from Victoria's Secret.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 18:18

Vandar: Sep 14, 2007; Isn't That Right, Chairman?

Guy Mann posted:

Only Lord worked on this movie, and as a writer. Of the three credited directors of this film, Peter Ramesy is the only one with a previous feature film directing credit for Rise of the Guardians at Dreamworks while Rodney Rothman has mostly been writing and producing in television and Bob Persichetti has been doing storyboard artwork at Dreamworks.

Miller was a producer, wasn�t he?

# ? Jan 5, 2019 18:26

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

Open Marriage Night posted:

Are we allowed to tell you to gently caress off?

Well I hope so considering he�s also just wrong. Dude doesn�t know what he�s talking about.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 18:46

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

Pirate Jet posted:

Sure.

Miles' arc is truncated in a really unfortunate way - the pacing of the movie is breakneck, there's simply too much content to cram into a movie this short. Sacrificing any of the three Spider-Men who don't accomplish anything might have solved it or might not have, but what matters is that the end result isn't Miles actually "learning to be Spider-Man." This isn't a coming of age story for Miles - his maturation into Spider-Man comes when he gets lucky taking the oft-mentioned "leap of faith" and not because of any lessons he learns. Even the last blow Fisk lands on Miles is framed similarly and makes a similar motion to Parker's death blow, meant to reference it - but Miles survives it because... his dad is cheering him on? There's not really any explanation as to why Miles succeeds where Parker failed other than that he's got a taser in his palm. It's implied through the shoulder touch reference, the presence of his dad, and the "I'll always have my family" line that Miles pulls it off because of those connections, but then that creates some weird implications that Parker failed because he doesn't have one. It's driven home by the fact that Uncle Aaron is done in by his own decisions and not Miles', which isn't even comparable to Uncle Ben dying because Parker failed to learn his core lesson, which taught him to actually pay heed to it - and made even weirder by the next scene, where the Spider-People tell him that losing someone you care about is just intrinsic to the idea of being a hero. Not only is it not really true, it's also not applicable here.

Congrats. You�ve taken one film criticism class and think you know what you�re talking about. The fact that miles has a different arc of becoming Spider man over Parker doesn�t make him weaker, just different, and the fact that you�re implying it does has some borderline systemic racist undertones :allears:

Also your last point is dumb and tone deaf to what their saying.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 18:51

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

Guy Mann posted:

Only Lord worked on this movie, and as a writer. Of the three credited directors of this film, Peter Ramesy is the only one with a previous feature film directing credit for Rise of the Guardians at Dreamworks while Rodney Rothman has mostly been writing and producing in television and Bob Persichetti has been doing storyboard artwork at Dreamworks.

That's another triumph of this movie, the fact that it's by and large the product of so many newcomers. One of major problems that Pixar and to a lesser extent Disney has had with this past generation is that they've been doing a really bad job actively cultivating new talent in favor of letting the same close-knit group run everything and then bringing in outside talent like Rich Moore while suffering brain drain from new talent jumping ship for greener pastures as soon as they've proven themselves. And we're at the point where the original batch of golden boys are either dying off or retiring (willingly or otherwise, in the case of John Lasseter) and the pool of replacements isn't as deep and wide as it should be.

My brother who�s rather big in the animation world (he�s worked on a ton of stuff) would agree with this. Ton of talented people that for various reasons don�t get their shot at calling the shots, and a lot of movies that could be a lot better are ruined by politics and bad calls from old people at the top. He loves the movie btw.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 18:55

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Probably why Pixar hasn't made a good movie since 1995.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 19:02

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

Pick posted:

I had a female friend who worked at Pixar and it made her almost suicidal how horrible it was to be a woman there. She moved on to advertising.

This is also true of a story around Brave. Originally a woman was directing it, and then the �old guard� took over it. And she left.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 20:25

Hat Thoughts: Jul 27, 2012

For those who haven't seen it, there's actually a pretty long medium post about Pixar's sexist culture from a woman who worked there for 5 years
https://byrslf.co/pixars-sexist-boys-club-9d621567fdc9

# ? Jan 5, 2019 21:23

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

Guy Mann posted:

Only Lord worked on this movie, and as a writer. Of the three credited directors of this film, Peter Ramesy is the only one with a previous feature film directing credit for Rise of the Guardians at Dreamworks while Rodney Rothman has mostly been writing and producing in television and Bob Persichetti has been doing storyboard artwork at Dreamworks.

That's another triumph of this movie, the fact that it's by and large the product of so many newcomers. One of major problems that Pixar and to a lesser extent Disney has had with this past generation is that they've been doing a really bad job actively cultivating new talent in favor of letting the same close-knit group run everything and then bringing in outside talent like Rich Moore while suffering brain drain from new talent jumping ship for greener pastures as soon as they've proven themselves. And we're at the point where the original batch of golden boys are either dying off or retiring (willingly or otherwise, in the case of John Lasseter) and the pool of replacements isn't as deep and wide as it should be.

Oh wow, that's even cooler!

# ? Jan 5, 2019 21:24

Pirate Jet: May 2, 2010

LionArcher posted:

The fact that miles has a different arc of becoming Spider man over Parker doesn�t make him weaker, just different, and the fact that you�re implying it does has some borderline systemic racist undertones

What are they? I don�t understand what you mean and would really like to avoid insinuating anything like that.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 21:55

Gally: May 31, 2001; Come on!

Pick posted:

I had a female friend who worked at Pixar and it made her almost suicidal how horrible it was to be a woman there. She moved on to advertising.

Don�t lie about our mutual friend to prove a point in a loving something awful thread

# ? Jan 5, 2019 22:12

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

well this just took a turn

# ? Jan 5, 2019 23:15

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Gally posted:

Don�t lie about our mutual friend to prove a point in a loving something awful thread

It's not the one we mutually know. It's someone I know through Portland. I don't even know where the other is now.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 23:38

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

well this just took a turn

Tbh the person she's talking about wouldn't even remember who I am.

# ? Jan 6, 2019 00:01

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Movie fun. Too busy to get too deep, but very very pretty and well worth seeing just for the spectacle.

# ? Jan 6, 2019 01:28

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

FilthyImp posted:

I know it's trolling/socratic gadflying, but there was a similar line of thought being thrown about in the Black Panther thread and... yeah it's starting to get uncomfortable.

I think the usual argument is that the movie is basically Strong Female Protagonist style *SEXISM IS OVER* except with black people. But frankly it's far better than nothing and not like most people are really going to internalise the more questionable parts of the message that the rest of pop culture and Marvel movies in particular are already putting out anyway.

Not sure how you'd do a socialist superhero movie. Except maybe Wonderful 101.

# ? Jan 6, 2019 08:00

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think the usual argument is that the movie is basically Strong Female Protagonist style *SEXISM IS OVER* except with black people. But frankly it's far better than nothing and not like most people are really going to internalise the more questionable parts of the message that the rest of pop culture and Marvel movies in particular are already putting out anyway.

Not sure how you'd do a socialist superhero movie. Except maybe Wonderful 101.

Got no fame, no fortune to claim
Fighting for the status quo

# ? Jan 6, 2019 08:10

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

i was really sleeping on this movie, but decided to check it out due to word of mouth and having nothing better to do. so glad i did, it was an absolute treat. the aesthetics felt new and refreshing, but still showed a love of the source materials. and while the animation itself is getting a lot of well deserved praise i was particularly struck by the direction. the level of dynamism was a treat, especially the way they used three dimensional space. it reminded me a lot of mob psycho 100 in that regard.

i think the movie's ambitions exceed its grasp a tad when it comes to the writing though and its frustrating because i have no suggestions. peni, noir, and spider-ham are all fun characters, but they feel underutilized. it was kind of noticeable throughout the film, but it really hit me when peni has to abandon her irreparably damaged mecha before returning to her dimension. it's a bit of an extended sequence that just underlines how little emotional stake i had in the character because there hadn't even been a hint of character development. of course at a two hour runtime they really couldn't afford to spend any more time on those three without seriously testing the attention span of the kids in the audience, and cutting two or three characters loses a good amount of impact of "there are multiple spider-men". the creators strike the best balance they probably could have in that situation, but it still feels frustratingly tacked on. especially when you have both john mulaney and nicholas cage as cartoon pastiches and they collectively have maybe 15 significant lines

ungulateman posted:

the idea that kids should only be inspired by people that look like them is bad and promotes weird essentialist concepts of race that are totally foreign to me as a non-american

what gives off the impression that posters are suggesting kids should only be inspired by people that look like them? i didn't read anything in the anecdote or the follow-up posts that struck me in that way, so i'm curious

# ? Jan 6, 2019 11:58

Snowglobe of Doom: Mar 30, 2012; sucks to be right

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

i think the movie's ambitions exceed its grasp a tad when it comes to the writing though and its frustrating because i have no suggestions. peni, noir, and spider-ham are all fun characters, but they feel underutilized. it was kind of noticeable throughout the film, but it really hit me when peni has to abandon her irreparably damaged mecha before returning to her dimension.

The takeaway message I got from that scene was underlining the fact that Peni doesn't need her mech suit to be a bad rear end because after Scorpion wrecked the suit she just climbed out, grabbed the nearest blunt object and continued beating the snot out of him, which is also a continuation of the "Anyone can wear the mask (but it's who you are inside that makes you Spider-Man)" theme

# ? Jan 6, 2019 13:22

BOAT SHOWBOAT: Oct 11, 2007; who do you carry the torch for, my young man?

Vandar posted:

Miller was a producer, wasn’t he?

Yes and seems pretty creatively involved from interviews even though he doesn't have a screenplay credit.

# ? Jan 6, 2019 17:01

19 o'clock: Sep 9, 2004; Excelsior!!!

This movie was really loving good holy poo poo. I left the movie feeling awestruck.

# ? Jan 6, 2019 17:06

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

The takeaway message I got from that scene was underlining the fact that Peni doesn't need her mech suit to be a bad rear end because after Scorpion wrecked the suit she just climbed out, grabbed the nearest blunt object and continued beating the snot out of him, which is also a continuation of the "Anyone can wear the mask (but it's who you are inside that makes you Spider-Man)" theme

She also recovered the suit's "spider" core before returning to her home dimension, so she'll be back in a new suit with the same core.

# ? Jan 6, 2019 17:48

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Not sure how you'd do a socialist superhero movie. Except maybe Wonderful 101.

There's always Mieville's pitch for Scrap-Iron Man:

quote:

A six-issue comic, with a view to introducing a new hero into an existing canon.

The economic crisis bites. Flinton, MI, was built on industry, and the industry�s gone, since by far the city�s dominant company took the stimulus cheque, attacked wages, outsourced more and more, then finally all, R&D and production overseas.
Flinton, like so many other towns, is dying.

An extraordinary figure in bizarre makeshift power armour the colours of rust and hazard-warning yellow has appeared, fighting burglars, thieves, drug-dealers, graffiti-taggers. Flashback: he�s Dan, an ex-worker in one of the high-tech heavy defence plants, horrified at the social breakdown, going through the many scrapheaps of the town and cobbling together his suit from industrial junk, trying to save his home.

Dan smashes up a crack house, but while most of those within run, one stays and jeers at him, calls him a bully. Dan knows her: Louise was the union rep at his factory. He�s ashamed: he always liked her. They get talking. �You really want to do right by Flinton?� Louise says eventually. 'By all the other Flintons? Then quit messing with symptoms. It�s time to take down the real villain.�

Louise has contacts. They gather together a group of laid-off workers, from all the fields and departments of the now-dead industry, who with their combined expertise add weapons, flight capability, computers to the armour. Over Dan�s initial resistance, Louise even insists they contact some of the overseas workers where the plants have been relocated, to get up-to-date information, technology, and help, because, Louise insists, they�re on the same side. They make the suit vastly more powerful.

Dan knows how to fight, but that isn�t enough. They put controls in the suit connected to a central hub in Flinton, into which they can log, so Dan will be in constant touch with the others, who can take control of different aspects of the system as necessary: so the other scrappers can help fight, the veteran who was once a sniper can aim the weapons, the one with a pilot�s licence can fly it, the techie can patch into data systems, and so on, and they can all strategise together. A single-bodied union. A collective superhero.

They�re almost ready. They�re preparing to finish the cosmetic upgrade on the prototype suit: it still looks like junk. But Dan and Louise stop them.

'No,� Dan says. 'We need a symbol.'

'Capitalists are a superstitious cowardly lot,� Louise says. 'This fucker put our town out with the trash, threw us on the scrap heap. Well, the scrap heap�s got up, and it�s coming for him.�

The crew take their places at the controls. Dan puts on the battered welding helmet that disguises his identity and, in a burst of rust, launches into the sky for New York, to face down the sociopathic authoritarian fascist arms-dealing corporate billionaire who left Flinton to rot, who�s responsible for so many countless deaths, in the US and around the world: Tony loving Stark.

Dan: 'Get ready for payback, Iron Man. We are Scrap Iron Man.'

# ? Jan 6, 2019 18:03

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

^^^
Love that pitch, but I hate how it would get mangled if taken on by Marvel: protag would instead be Tony Stark, down on his luck foreman who lost his engineering PhD because alcoholism, or, ScrapIron Man beats down Tony only to learn AIM has infiltrated Stark Enterprises and now the two unlikely allies have to join together to beat down... uh... ModoC (Mental Organism Designed only for Capitalism).

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think the usual argument is that the movie is basically Strong Female Protagonist style *SEXISM IS OVER* except with black people.

I get that, and I get that it's not Fruitvale Station, but the movie had a really strong moral conflict (re: Erik's militancy) that I felt kept it from being a Black Person Monoculture thing. There were disagreements between the protags as well that helped add to it.

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

what gives off the impression that posters are suggesting kids should only be inspired by people that look like them?

In the rush to condemn us for enjoying a story about a kid being enthralled by his moviegoing experience, the poster forgets that the film literally has a PoC be inspired by a multitude of people that look nothing like him.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jan 6, 2019

# ? Jan 6, 2019 19:08

Guy Mann: Mar 28, 2016; by Lowtax

Young Freud posted:

She also recovered the suit's "spider" core before returning to her home dimension, so she'll be back in a new suit with the same core.

Yeah, as cool as it was to see that style of animation emulated I thought Penni was the weakest link in the cast of Spiders Men. Spider-Noir coming from a literal black and white world and using all sorts of hilarious outdated slang or Ham using cartoon slapstick to fight baddies had actual payoff but "has an annoying squeaky anime voice and blares jpop and makes emoji faces IRL" and her emotional arc being the weeb equivalent of "aw gently caress I wrecked my dead dad's car and I'm really sad, ah well nobody was hurt and now I can build an even better car with the insurance money" was just blehhh even if by being the one who rebuilt the Goober she arguably contributed the most.

Apraxin posted:

There's always Mieville's pitch for Scrap-Iron Man:

If this was real life Scrap Iron Man would be rolling coal with a Q bumper sticker and a MAGA hat and patrolling gated communities looking for MS-13.

FilthyImp posted:

^^^
Love that pitch, but I hate how it would get mangled if taken on by Marvel: protag would instead be Tony Stark, down on his luck foreman who lost his engineering PhD because alcoholism, or, ScrapIron Man beats down Tony only to learn AIM has infiltrated Stark Enterprises and now the two unlikely allies have to join together to beat down... uh... ModoC (Mental Organism Designed only for Capitalism).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtntTvuv8Aw

# ? Jan 6, 2019 19:39

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

The takeaway message I got from that scene was underlining the fact that Peni doesn't need her mech suit to be a bad rear end because after Scorpion wrecked the suit she just climbed out, grabbed the nearest blunt object and continued beating the snot out of him, which is also a continuation of the "Anyone can wear the mask (but it's who you are inside that makes you Spider-Man)" theme

sure, and of course it plays into the "spider-man always gets back up" theme, but the emotional poignancy they seemed to also be going for in that moment felt very flat

# ? Jan 6, 2019 22:11

hiddenriverninja: May 10, 2013; life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

When Peni whacks Scorpion with the robo leg like it ain't no thang, is it because she has spider strength or because it's an anime trope?

# ? Jan 6, 2019 22:40

21 Muns: Dec 10, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

sure, and of course it plays into the "spider-man always gets back up" theme, but the emotional poignancy they seemed to also be going for in that moment felt very flat

I thought it was pretty cool; it was like she was going through her own Big Hero 6 ending in the background.

# ? Jan 6, 2019 22:44

Guy Mann: Mar 28, 2016; by Lowtax

This winning the best animated film at the Golden Globes made me realize that there's a very good chance that this could take home the Academy Award as well. People say that the Oscars are all about politics and if there's a political environment that could dethrone Disney/Pixar's winning streak it's one where the guy who has been running both of them has been #MeToo'd out of existence and the award show is struggling with fallout over being too white.

Though on the other hand The Incredibles 2 is basically tailor-made to appeal to the Academy's demographics so even if its not as good as Spidey I could see being the softball win for that year.

# ? Jan 7, 2019 03:22

21 Muns: Dec 10, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

Guy Mann posted:

This winning the best animated film at the Golden Globes made me realize that there's a very good chance that this could take home the Academy Award as well. People say that the Oscars are all about politics and if there's a political environment that could dethrone Disney/Pixar's winning streak it's one where the guy who has been running both of them has been #MeToo'd out of existence and the award show is struggling with fallout over being too white.

Though on the other hand The Incredibles 2 is basically tailor-made to appeal to the Academy's demographics so even if its not as good as Spidey I could see being the softball win for that year.

I wish, but it's a snowball's chance in hell. Best Animated Feature is a joke of an award.

# ? Jan 7, 2019 03:41

hiddenriverninja: May 10, 2013; life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

Yeah I would assume the Oscars are an "OLD Guard" kind of thing

# ? Jan 7, 2019 04:19

A Sometimes Food: Dec 8, 2010

So a thing I just realised. Aunt May recognised Ock and called her Liv like she says her friends do.

Don't Aunt May and Doc Ock have history in most universes?

# ? Jan 7, 2019 04:52

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

A Sometimes Food posted:

So a thing I just realised. Aunt May recognised Ock and called her Liv like she says her friends do.

Don't Aunt May and Doc Ock usually have history in most universes?

Aunt May and Liv dated, confirmed canon.

# ? Jan 7, 2019 04:53

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

A Sometimes Food posted:

So a thing I just realised. Aunt May recognised Ock and called her Liv like she says her friends do.

Don't Aunt May and Doc Ock have history in most universes?

Given Spider-Verse May's technical acumen, it's not unreasonable to think they were once friends at some lab. It's also not unreasonable to assume there may be a more personal history, given that things tend to be similar between dimensions and there is, indeed, a romantic link between the two in mainline Spider-Man.

# ? Jan 7, 2019 05:14

Uncle Wemus: Mar 4, 2004

Now Sony, don't let this success go to your head.

# ? Jan 7, 2019 05:16

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# ? May 23, 2024 13:54

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Uncle Wemus posted:

Now Sony, don't let this success go to your head.

ASM SINISTER SIX MOVIE BACK ON BAY-BAY

# ? Jan 7, 2019 05:18

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Into the Spider-Verse: "Did *that* feel like a cartoon?"

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