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I'm really shocked that it took eight and a half hours for anyone to comment on that
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Jan 6, 2019 03:50
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yaldabaoth to be correct is the Demiurge. A powerful god like being that could not recognize any other aspects of the divine and so thought of itself as the true creator and almighty being. I mean we could get into an argument over the demiurge as a neo-platonic concept and as a gnostic figure, a significant portion of the latter specifically identifying the dude with the god of moses and we could further argue over whether "yaldabaoth" was a name even used before said gnostics got their grubby hands on the whole thing I'd rather not though
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Jan 6, 2019 03:54
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Wait, I'm confused. So if the real enemy all along is the apathy/desire to blindly follow by humanity, then what do the seven sins have to do with that?
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Jan 6, 2019 05:59
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amigolupus posted:Wait, I'm confused. I think that since this is the biggest enemy, the Sloth is the strongest because it spans the general public Each sin is about someone taking advantage of others, whether for greed or lust or whatever. But for the Sloth, it's everyone trying to shift responsibility onto each other, this weird communal aspect of Sloth where everyone is victimizing each other through inactivity and intentional ignorance. It's less that Sloth is the worst. It's about the context and magnitude
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Jan 6, 2019 06:05
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It's just that I can't see a relation between the seven deadly sins and 'people blindly following without questioning those in power' theme for the endgame. Like sure, the seven sins could be the driving force behind why some people abuse their power to take advantage over others. But it seems like a huge stretch to apply that to human apathy. Maybe you could say it's emptiness, but then the boss doesn't have an emptiness theme either. That aside, maybe it's just me, but I'm still not fully sold on this idea for the true antagonist. P5 has shown over and over that people with power who use it to screw other people over are the problem. So it feels like a weird shift to say that it's the people's problem for not caring, since people already have a huge disadvantage if they do want to affect change.
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Jan 6, 2019 06:37
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Remember in the prison we learn those who were striking out like the palace owners and the mementos targets weren’t prisoners because they didn’t want to just blindly let others lead. That’s the connection, the previous targets were people using the general apathy of the population to take over whatever aspect of society they happened to be able to reach. Shido thus is absolutely correct in his belief that God chose him to lead, as he is the one the masses chose to make their decisions and rule them so they don’t have to do anything themselves. But repeatedly the previous dungeons, besides Futaba, show that plenty of people did know about the actions of the target and either decided it was someone else’s problem or joined them. This is what the final boss represents, ignoring and accepting the abuse of those in leadership because it’s easier than rebellion. It’s not apathy but acceptance and invisible support.
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Jan 6, 2019 08:13
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DeafNote posted:Nyx Avatar is almost impossible to top. True. Even if you had no idea what it was it's very hard to look at Nyx Avatar and not immediately realize "Yes, that represents the end of the world right there."
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Jan 6, 2019 08:53
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Stroth posted:True. Even if you had no idea what it was it's very hard to look at Nyx Avatar and not immediately realize "Yes, that represents the end of the world right there." Really? I never found myself impressed with the final boss designs for the previous 2 games.
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Jan 6, 2019 10:46
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But yes, Yaldabaoth's boss theme is really remarkable in how unremarkable it is. Nothing about it makes it stand out, there's nothing about it that says "Yeah, I'm a track in Persona 5" like so many other pieces in this game do.
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Jan 6, 2019 13:12
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Between Shido's Senator Armstrong phase and all the subsequent "the masses are sheep!" dialogue I just muted the music for Yaldy and played Collective Conscious over it instead.
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Jan 6, 2019 19:59
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Yeah, I always feel that this particular cruel angel's thesis is: "Humanity has a whole bunch of lovely folks who have distorted desires bringing about ruin (Shido, Kamoshida, Madarame, etc.) and rather than do something about it, people in general just pass the buck to others in their laziness. And in the end, they created me to be in charge of everything. And I get to pick whether I'm just going to rule the world forever with everyone all 'happiness in slavery' or if the masses are too lovely, I might just purge them all." Interestingly, the Phantom Thieves of Heart, depending on how you look at it, are supporting his case, or opposing it. On one hand, they are clearly a bunch of folks who are stepping up and doing something about all the evil, even if it's not affecting them. However, they are doing this by 'assuming control' of other people's hearts, and in a way, becoming an 'authority' similar to Yaldabaoth, which I feel is illustrated by some of the creepy twitter remarks while our reputation was high. And of course, all the while we were doing that, we were doing it with Yaldy's express blessing.
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Jan 6, 2019 23:14
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Shogeton posted:Yeah, I always feel that this particular cruel angel's thesis is: that's why he offered Joker the chance to stay the course when Lavenza was first reborn - the Phantom Thieves could go on changing people's hearts and soaking up adulation, acting as cogs within Yaldabaoth's larger order Joker naturally goes "lol no, smash the state"
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Jan 6, 2019 23:39
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Part 193: 12/24: Thanks, Satan Music: Regret  Yaldy used his cutscene powers to gently caress us up again, despite us whipping his rear end earlier. Lame!    You’re destroying them because you can’t do that, aren’t you? So that you can flaunt your own existence. That’s why you were observing us! You had to because the reaction of the “masses” worried you! That sounds about right. I don’t know how long you lived, but you’re the perfect example of a pain-in-the-rear end old man! You find people like that everywhere. What drivel…    What is this!? Dammit, I can’t see anything! Do you want to erase us from this world that much!?...I mean, yes. He clearly does.  G-Guys…!       If we lose… the world is… I need to… get back up…     I can’t… go on… Is this is…?    They mock you for revolting against a god. Humans are naught but clumps of desire. Logic dictates that a world filled with them will decline. The sin of rebelling against a god is severe. As punishment, you shall taste pain everlasting.  It is impossible for a petty existence like you to overrule my precedent. Human hope is a desire too! You better not underestimate it! Even if only one of us remains, we’ll get back up and fight to the very end. And we’ll definitely… definitely…!  Music: Desire   People continue to vanish.      Sir, what’s going on here!?         Weren’t the Phantom Thieves those--  Can they even do anything about a situation like this?  Rally (Watch this)   Huh?   Oh goddammit                 Music: Swear to My Bones  How did Sojiro get here from Yongen?   …I sure am. Is the same true for you too? Pretty much. Looks like it’s not just us though.            Akechi flips us off from beyond the grave.    No one wants you to rule over them! Isn’t that right, Maaku!?           I will see my justice through for the sake of protecting what I care about. Morgana… ...The same goes for you guys too! If you’ve decided to take the world from him, don’t compromise your ideals to the very end! Let’s defeat him together!   They’re prayin’ there’s no place for someone like you in this world! Sick burn, Ryuji. Give that evil god his final warning, Maaku!   Collective Consciousness (Watch this)                                           Oh gently caress yes. Satanael (Watch this) Music: Our Beginning   Man, it’s huge!     This is why man is doomed…       What better way is there for a finale as a Trickster!       Pillage him… Satanael!                   
Arist fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 04:38
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also i'm a little bummed at how the dumb joke i spent so much time on in the boss fight update didn't really get much attention, but that's the pitfall of hiding a goof like that
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Jan 7, 2019 04:42
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really queer Christmas posted:Hail satan
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Jan 7, 2019 04:43
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also also, not a ton of editorializing in this one but i think this scene of all scenes really needs to speak for itself
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Jan 7, 2019 04:44
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It's just been revoked.  But seriously, I wasn't sure how I felt about Yu summoning Lucifer as the personification of his bonds with his friends at the end of the Persona 4 anime. I'm not sure how I feel about this either.
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Jan 7, 2019 04:50
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Arist posted:also i'm a little bummed at how the dumb joke i spent so much time on in the boss fight update didn't really get much attention, but that's the pitfall of hiding a goof like that I thought it was great
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Jan 7, 2019 04:59
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Satan shooting God in the head saved Christmas!
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Jan 7, 2019 05:04
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Hail Satan 
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Jan 7, 2019 05:08
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Mankind ill needs a savior such as you!
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Jan 7, 2019 05:19
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The moral of the Persona series: Find the deific entity causing humanity the most trouble and blow an eighteen-foot hole through its head.
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Jan 7, 2019 05:36
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And that's why I can't hate Mishima. Also, was super glad to see YAAAAAAAAAS guy back on the poll ticker. 
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Jan 7, 2019 05:37
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I appreciate Mr. "Fan power levels -->". Arist posted:also i'm a little bummed at how the dumb joke i spent so much time on in the boss fight update didn't really get much attention, but that's the pitfall of hiding a goof like that It was a pretty good dumb joke. (Also I should probably take a look at the Dancing Night for 3 at some point, that said.)
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Jan 7, 2019 05:41
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Snorb posted:The moral of the Persona series: Find the deific entity causing humanity the most trouble and blow an eighteen-foot hole through its head.
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Jan 7, 2019 05:42
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Pillage Him is such a badass line.
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Jan 7, 2019 05:46
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I'm a bit more partial to "Begone." but "Pillage him!" is badass too.
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Jan 7, 2019 05:48
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So we killed the personification of "humanity wants some strong figure to put their faith in so they don't have to think for themselves" by... becoming a strong figure that humanity puts their faith in because they can't do anything themselves. I get that they wanted a giant pumping-up scene but the whole "omg 100% of people believe in us yaaaaaaay" thing just feels cheap as hell. We spent the last three hours fighting Yaldabaoth in various forms and losing because the public was ignoring us. Why is it suddenly now that not only do they pay attention, but decide that the Phantom Thieves are the ones they want to support? The Thieves didn't actually do anything different except get the poo poo beaten out of them. Regardless, hail satan
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Jan 7, 2019 05:54
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I'm not sure how I feel about this either. I feel like more Chaos routes should end with shooting Demiurge in the face
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Jan 7, 2019 05:55
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:So we killed the personification of "humanity wants some strong figure to put their faith in so they don't have to think for themselves" by... becoming a strong figure that humanity puts their faith in because they can't do anything themselves. Our consistently obnoxious cat colleague did...something maybe look the spirit bomb became satan, this game went a bit off the rails
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Jan 7, 2019 06:18
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HAIL SATAN
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Jan 7, 2019 06:34
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In terms of thematics it kind of goes against what it's going for, but god drat it's stylish as hell, especially with Maaku doing it all with his mask off.
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Jan 7, 2019 06:46
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Snorb posted:The moral of the Persona series: Find the deific entity causing humanity the most trouble and blow an eighteen-foot hole through its head.
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Jan 7, 2019 06:54
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HAIL SATAN, but also it's worth noting that Yaldabaoth has been screwing with the collective conscious for a long time to remove any opposition to his rule. The idea behind this is The Phantom Thieves are awakening the sense of rebellion everyone always had against someone or something like Yaldabaoth. Hence the lines about how he was afraid of Humanity's collective desires and trying to control them. Then we summon Satan to shoot God in the face and save Christmas and it is wonderful
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Jan 7, 2019 06:55
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I've managed to not hear anything about this game until this thread and "Satan saves Christmas" is amazing to hear the first time. Also, the dancing footage was the first I've ever seen of the dancing games and I really didn't know how to react. I still can't tell if I want to see more of them or not.
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Jan 7, 2019 07:34
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Yeah none of this really gels with me. Most of all the music? Our Beginning feels like it's missing something But Satanael looks pretty dang cool
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Jan 7, 2019 07:41
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Oh, so the problem was that we were all very small and we just needed a 30 foot tall friend to shoot it with a much larger gun.
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Jan 7, 2019 07:49
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Don't forget that the problem before was that there were some tubes and we just needed to have our axe-wielding girlfriend cut them with her axe.
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Jan 7, 2019 08:21
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so the funny thing with this fight is that I just happened to be using satan for it the radness of summoning satan to kill what is effectively the demiurge is lost a little when you were already using satan
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Jan 7, 2019 08:34
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Farseli posted:I've managed to not hear anything about this game until this thread and "Satan saves Christmas" is amazing to hear the first time. To be fair to the dancing games, that was probably the worst possible song to set a big dance number to. Persona 4 Dancing used Reach out to the Truth for that instead of any of the boss themes, and it's actually possible to have a dance routine that fits that song.
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Jan 7, 2019 08:39
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