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insofar as one can roleplay in roguelikes, im really bad at it, but im big into games where one isnt supposed to play out an idea from the start so much as adapt to what the game is putting your way
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Jan 4, 2019 20:51
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I'm absolutely loving terrible at cogmind and routinely forget that heat is a thing right up until I spend 20 turns quadfiring cannons and then my entire machine melts into a heap of indistinct slag
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Jan 4, 2019 21:11
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John Lee posted:As far as I can tell, this bit is actually not true - seems the majority of players play with/for stats alone and don't care about flavor much at all. As a guy who can't break from caring about the roleplay, it's weird, and maybe my estimation's off, but look at how many people in this thread say things like "there's literally no reason to ever play x" when talking about balance issues. It is closer to true than it is closer to untrue. People might not be all super roleplay, but a lot will want to have a general concept that they want to run with. No idea if data is around on this stuff, but an example would be what percentage of people playing a dwarf choose to use an axe instead of another weapon? When people are playing ogres how often is it clubs/maces? Some of it is mechanics in crawl's example, but even if it wasn't mechanics (other games) these sorts of things happen.
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Jan 4, 2019 21:23
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One common complaint in Angband is that people don't like rolling up a warrior and then buying a dagger. But the game mechanically encourages you to use light weapons in the early game -- they're easier to get multiple attacks with, and each attack gets the full damage bonus from your strength score. So while a longsword might give you 2d5+4 damage (one attack with +4 damage), the dagger gets you 3d4+12 (three attacks each with +4). Ideally the mechanics would be better-matched to the way most people want to play the game, so that half-trolls and warriors would tend to favor big weapons, while halflings and rogues would prefer lighter weapons. Of course, it's super hard to set up that kind of thing without having a lot of unintended consequences, like making it so that 90% of the weapons in any given game are junk.
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Jan 4, 2019 21:44
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I always hated that the very first thing you do as a Warrior in Angband is to toss away your sword and grab a toothpick because that was unequivocally superior. But my class fantasy!
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Jan 4, 2019 21:52
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an extremely good example of how people can fight over something with literally no stakes is the last few pages. That's not really meant to be a dig, the idea of forks and goon projects is really cool, and I also thing Crawl's own trajectory is cool too so maybe I'm missing something but everyone seems to be able to get what they want from Crawl? Someone mentioned before how the maintainer of Angband says Angband has always been broken and I find that extremely amazing as a perspective for community projects. Especially when it comes to things that have existed for such a long time, I feel like people form attachments and impressions and they project the ownership of those attachments onto the thing itself instead of their experience. Continual updates are a great thing, I never touched Angband until it started updating more frequently. Are there any other Roguelikes like it? Specifically ones that feel more like Diablo 1 than ADOM. I love going into dungeon, finding loot, building my character, taking on uniques and vaults. Elona kind of hits that but stretches that experience out to 200 hours per character as opposed to Angbands impressive (oppresive) 20 or so? hours. Does Elona have an end state?
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Jan 4, 2019 21:56
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Pladdicus posted:Continual updates are a great thing, I never touched Angband until it started updating more frequently. Are there any other Roguelikes like it? Specifically ones that feel more like Diablo 1 than ADOM. I love going into dungeon, finding loot, building my character, taking on uniques and vaults. Elona kind of hits that but stretches that experience out to 200 hours per character as opposed to Angbands impressive (oppresive) 20 or so? hours. Dungeonmans is very much in a similar vein.
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Jan 4, 2019 22:15
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Pladdicus posted:an extremely good example of how people can fight over something with literally no stakes is the last few pages. That's not really meant to be a dig, the idea of forks and goon projects is really cool, and I also thing Crawl's own trajectory is cool too so maybe I'm missing something but everyone seems to be able to get what they want from Crawl? Someone mentioned before how the maintainer of Angband says Angband has always been broken and I find that extremely amazing as a perspective for community projects. Especially when it comes to things that have existed for such a long time, I feel like people form attachments and impressions and they project the ownership of those attachments onto the thing itself instead of their experience. Elona has a storyline and a bunch of cutscenes that weren't translated in the official version. These are enabled and translated in Elona+.
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Jan 4, 2019 22:38
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Angry Diplomat posted:Regardless of our varying opinions on Crawl's devteam, I think we can all find harmony in unequivocally praising it on one specific point: it is definitely and without question not Cataclysm's devteam Absolute truth. The DCSS devteam are saints in comparison. I'm hard on Crawl's team sometimes, but they have overall improved the game immeasurably with each new version.
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Jan 4, 2019 23:26
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the crawl team has a coherent goal in mind which I disagree with, I still can't tell what the gently caress the cataclysm guys are even doing
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Jan 5, 2019 00:45
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my guess is whatever they want without any real end goal in mind
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Jan 5, 2019 00:46
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zirconmusic posted:Yeah job trials may still be slightly overtuned, although they are supposed to be very challenging. 3-hit KO seems unintended but I'd be curious to know what kind of attacks those were; charge attacks that were dodgeable? Or straight up melee / instant ranged stuff? I think the issue is that monster stats scale faster than player stats. In the main game you handle this by expanding your available skills through multiclassing to expand your options in combat and cover weaknesses, but in job trials the only scaling options are lucking into a particularly good item and stockpiling particularly useful consumables like elixirs. I know this would be a lot of work, but I feel like the best way to handle job trials would be to reverse the restrictions: force the player to use a specific equipment and consumable loadout for each trial, while leaving class skills open. This would give players room to get creative with each trial rather than hoping their equipment stats are high enough to slog through
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Jan 5, 2019 01:07
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Pladdicus posted:Does Elona have an end state? Well once you summon and kill the entire pantheon of gods and their stronger second forms there's probably not a ton left to do? There's still the infinite dungeon tohugh.
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Jan 5, 2019 03:58
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Pladdicus posted:an extremely good example of how people can fight over something with literally no stakes is the last few pages. That's not really meant to be a dig, the idea of forks and goon projects is really cool, and I also thing Crawl's own trajectory is cool too so maybe I'm missing something but everyone seems to be able to get what they want from Crawl? Someone mentioned before how the maintainer of Angband says Angband has always been broken and I find that extremely amazing as a perspective for community projects. Especially when it comes to things that have existed for such a long time, I feel like people form attachments and impressions and they project the ownership of those attachments onto the thing itself instead of their experience. Elona has a storyline quest. You 'win' by beating the final boss at the bottom of Lesimas, though you'll have to explore the rest of the game world too both to complete various quests to unlock the way down and to get strong enough. Elona+ adds much more content and more story progression, including 2 or 3 more continents with their own plotlines and main dungeons. I think the story there is incomplete and still in development. You can advance further down into the final continent's main dungeon and get more cutscenes and quests and boss fights out of it but you'll eventually reach the bottom without necessarily an "end"-end. edit: and of course even after that you can still continue playing and grind your stats forever while diving deeper and deeper into the infinite dungeon. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jan 5, 2019 |
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Jan 5, 2019 04:18
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Elona has a storyline quest. You 'win' by beating the final boss at the bottom of Lesimas, though you'll have to explore the rest of the game world too both to complete various quests to unlock the way down and to get strong enough. Elona+ adds much more content and more story progression, including 2 or 3 more continents with their own plotlines and main dungeons. I think the story there is incomplete and still in development. You can advance further down into the final continent's main dungeon and get more cutscenes and quests and boss fights out of it but you'll eventually reach the bottom without necessarily an "end"-end. I never managed to get very far in any Elona+ playthrough--granted the last time I tried was some years ago, but I always got tired of playing piano for rich people to get money and ended up using whatever good equipment I had to try a dungeon, and then invariably got wrecked. Is there a reasonably updated guide for making a go at it?
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Jan 5, 2019 05:59
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Fuse all the devs together between crawl, crawl forks, and resurrected IVAN---blot out the sun. Slay the Spire is getting done up for Steam Workshop Modding support on the full...so get ready for the full release on that game to consume a great many souls in some weeks onward into probably years.
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Jan 5, 2019 14:24
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I think it's cool how in most threads stuff like this crawl discussion would have continued as sniping slapfight but here changed to interesting discussion instead.
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Jan 5, 2019 16:07
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occamsnailfile posted:I never managed to get very far in any Elona+ playthrough--granted the last time I tried was some years ago, but I always got tired of playing piano for rich people to get money and ended up using whatever good equipment I had to try a dungeon, and then invariably got wrecked. Is there a reasonably updated guide for making a go at it? Do the tutorial if you want for a few free items, DON'T go to Vernis, instead go to Port Kapul/Derphy and run delivery quests between the two until you have have 1200 gold. Pick up a length of rope from a random overworld tile, buy a nuke from the girl in the Derphy bar and hang yourself with the rope. If the nuke is in your inventory when you respawn in your home, activate it and hold 5. If all goes well after you respawn both tutorial npcs should be dead, netting you a unique bow and dagger. Now go to Vernis, choose little girl as your pet, give her the dagger as it will mutate you and with the bow you can now do easy (1-3k goldish) hunting quests. Run from town to town doing whatever quests you can, drinking wells to wish for seven league boots and getting the plat to buy Cooking, Gardening, Negotiation, Traveling and Swimming. Fail farming quests til you have enough Gardening skill + speed to do them successfully, then go to Yowyn and do farming quests to build up a stock of seeds. Get a farm and place it wherever you want your properties to be (I like them all next to Palmia as it's very central) plant vegetable and fruit seeds, save the others til you have max success based on Gardening skill (breakpoints are on the wiki). Go to the truce ground and dedicate to the god of farming, grab the herb seeds and save them, keep harvesting your farm and cooking all the food yourself, sac veggies til you have max piety, sell fruit if you're not magic, buy flower from bakers to cook for strength training food. Get a cheap house and maid so you can get visitors who will increase your stat potentials. Do the mad scientist quest, get Gene Engineering and give your little girl Cooking so she can cook you breakfast to do the same thing. At some point you can start doing dungeons and they'll start having rewards worth doing them for but I can't really tell you when. Get a food or magic shop at some point to turn some of that farming stuff into more gold. At some point in doing dungeons you'll be able to kill big daddies for the cyberdome quest, save your rewards and you can use them to duplicate the third farming god reward, a stone that instantly grows plants every 72 hours, which lets you get way more herbs out of herb seeds. There's also a seed giving statue you can dupe instead to get herb seeds but I've never done this. With 30 gardening and cooking and a pot of fusion you can make herbed in curarias to feed yourself and your pet for Big Gains. Your little girl gets 15x food stat training and gets stat potential from gold so you should feed her bread and meat whenever she's hungry and give her any ores you find to sell. Once you've gotten all 3 rewards from the farming god and optionally the secret gift you can change to whatever god fits your kind of combat. When you're gettin money you can invest a magic shop up to 100 to get potions of potential and bless them in stacks before drinking. With a rod of firebolt you can destroy altars in towns to exploit the altar conversion piety bonus. Well, that's just off the top of my head.
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Jan 5, 2019 21:47
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I always loving forget how loving crazy Elona is.
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Jan 5, 2019 21:56
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Oh pick up a fire dragon child as a second pet at some point. Buff Buff Buff.
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Jan 5, 2019 22:23
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get a bell pet or 6 and give it a bunch of ruby gear.
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Jan 6, 2019 01:43
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Pladdicus posted:I always loving forget how loving crazy Elona is. Probably the only game in history in which "ignore the tutorial, buy a nuclear bomb, hang yourself, and blow up your own house" is considered a strong starting strategy.
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Jan 6, 2019 02:41
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Unfortunately that's the last time exploiting the systems in hilarious ways feels like getting one over on the game and not what's required to progress at a reasonable rate.
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Jan 6, 2019 02:56
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https://twitter.com/buenothebear/status/1081717782142570498 caves of qud: pendleton ward-approved
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Jan 6, 2019 03:24
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Johnny Joestar posted:https://twitter.com/buenothebear/status/1081717782142570498 this image reminds me of playing the Ultima clone on the GamePig crouched in an abandoned room in some awful corridor in System Shock 2.
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Jan 6, 2019 04:06
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More or less randomly threw darts at my backlog and now I'm playing Synthetik. I have no idea what's going on. Reloads are timed, right? That's the little bar that appears when I hit the reload key? What should I be doing other than, you know, shooting? My instinct is to prioritize obtaining passive items because, duh, passives rule.
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Jan 6, 2019 06:08
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Reloads are automatic, but you can hit the reload button a second time when the progress bar is in the highlighted area to instantly finish reloading and get some bonuses (this is "active reloading" per the game's terminology). Passives can be nice, but there are plenty of good actives as well that can really make your fights easier, so try to strike a balance. In particular, items that give you allies, grenades (especially the stun grenade), and there's a few active attack items that can reliably one-shot enemies. Otherwise, click on heads, don't stand in the open, keep moving to avoid getting flanked.
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Jan 6, 2019 06:24
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You can turn off active reloading (and most any other mechanic that annoys you) but doing so comes with massive penalties.
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Jan 6, 2019 06:37
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Put both reload keys on spacebar and it gets much easier.
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Jan 6, 2019 07:34
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for every game with active reload I thank our gears of war father. such a good loving idea. was there anyone that did it earlier?
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Jan 6, 2019 14:22
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dis astranagant posted:You can turn off active reloading (and most any other mechanic that annoys you) but doing so comes with massive penalties. (obviously leaving it all on let's get real here)
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Jan 6, 2019 14:49
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 Well I got around to trying out Synthetik and spent most of the first run having absolutely no idea what was going on until finding a laser gun that recharged itself so long as I didn't completely empty out its ammo capacity before eventually dieing at the start of what I think was a loop to some robot that exploded on death that I hadn't seen before. Game seems cool but is it just me or does it seem particularly difficult to parse what's going on? Disco floor section of what I think was the final boss was pretty awful.
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Jan 7, 2019 03:59
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Einwand posted:
I have 15 something hours in this game and haven't even seen the Disco room
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Jan 7, 2019 05:18
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You'll know if you loop because everything goes red and all the enemies move at like triple speed. As for parsing what's going on, it takes a bit to adjust to the perspective the game uses but it's not that bad IMO. I rarely find that I'm getting hit by things because they blended into the background or were hidden by other objects, for example. EDIT: vvvv yeah, the Raptor is probably the worst boss in the game. If you fight it in loop it can be completely impossible to avoid more than a few bullets from the machinegun because it moves so fast. TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 05:47
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Did a second run, died to some giant airship that was literally impossible to not get hit by outside of the long cooldown on dashing. 
Einwand fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 06:07
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Einwand posted:Did a second run, died to some giant airship that was literally impossible to not get hit by outside of the long cooldown on dashing. Synthetik's biggest problem is the awful bosses.
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Jan 7, 2019 06:38
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The base run speed in synthetik is too low to physically avoid a lot of poo poo with the base dodge cooldown. It's pretty dumb. When I'm commando I always have to take Routine to deal with it, and I usually just play commando just for that perk. On anyone else, I always take move speed upgrades when they're available. also based on my most recent run, I think the correct way to play the "sniper" is actually to get the shotgun with 1 shot per reload and make it as accurate as possible, getting headshots for Precision just by clicking vaguely near things and deleting them in one shot from offscreen
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Jan 7, 2019 09:03
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Einwand posted:Well I got around to trying out Synthetik and spent most of the first run having absolutely no idea what was going on until finding a laser gun that recharged itself so long as I didn't completely empty out its ammo capacity before eventually dieing at the start of what I think was a loop to some robot that exploded on death that I hadn't seen before. Game seems cool but is it just me or does it seem particularly difficult to parse what's going on? Disco floor section of what I think was the final boss was pretty awful. I also tried out Synthetik for the first time today, and this was pretty much my experience--having no clue what was going on but doing okay until suddenly I wasn't. It feels like a game with a lot of mechanics going on. Headshots and active reloads using and sometimes when I right click something happens, but sometimes it doesn't and I have no idea where on the screen to look to find out. It seemed cool, but today was also the day I tried out Heat Signature and hooooo boy did that steal today's thunder. I also tried out RogueTek, and got real bad beat down. Took a one-star mission and it was just 8 heavy tanks kiting me slowly across the map and hitting me from just outside of my vision range and me missing every shot I managed to make and just slow attrition grinding me down. It seems like it might be amazing, but I needed some time to regain my morale after that.
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Jan 7, 2019 09:04
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Einwand posted:Did a second run, died to some giant airship that was literally impossible to not get hit by outside of the long cooldown on dashing. That loving plane, man. Half the time it just sort of drifts around firing at nothing and is easy as hell, the other half it locks itself to your position and puts every single laser directly in your eye. If there's something you can do to influence which of these outcomes you get I haven't found it. Still not as bad as the disco floor though.
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Jan 7, 2019 09:33
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So after like three runs my main Synthetik complaint is that I don't know why trash waves even exist. It feels like filler.
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Jan 7, 2019 13:26
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