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eke out posted:can someone remind me where they lay out why angels are so insanely attached to the notion of being male? it's just because someone in charge said they were male and they're law robots who fetishize order right (and they're the opposite of devils that have quite fluid gender) It's not that they care about the idea of being male, it's that they (claim to) eschew the idea of gender altogether - but then insist on using male as the default instead of a gender-neutral term. Whether it's consciously or not, they do it for the same reason any real-world culture does it - women are thought of as being lesser than men. But clearly angels are more human than they like to admit, as some like White Chain (and Delicious, probably) who have spent time in the world have identified more with femininity. It's funny how among humans she insists she adheres to the old ways, but among angels she will argue for change. Clearly she has a lot to work through and wants to still have pride in her brethren, but isn't sure how to do that without compromising the things she's feeling.
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Jan 10, 2019 03:34
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I would say it's due to the Cold White Flame they're made from comes from the god Un, who is "the master of empty and still places" and was explicitly male (and the origin of maleness as defined by division from Yis's femaleness, which was united in Yisun). From there, angels implicitly assumed they inherited his maleness, and then proceeded to never ask questions of their assumptions, so they treat male as default and default as correct.
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Jan 10, 2019 03:34
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Precambrian posted:I would say it's due to the Cold White Flame they're made from comes from the god Un, who is "the master of empty and still places" and was explicitly male (and the origin of maleness as defined by division from Yis's femaleness, which was united in Yisun). From there, angels implicitly assumed they inherited his maleness, and then proceeded to never ask questions of their assumptions, so they treat male as default and default as correct. Funny how devils don't seem to have this issue (that we've seen yet), although I notice that many blue imps seem to default to female. I would guess that their gender is more fluid as they have many rebirths in their lives when "leveling up" through the devil colors.
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Jan 10, 2019 03:36
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SardonicTyrant posted:413 You Were Warned About Stairs. 
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Jan 10, 2019 05:19
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410,757,864,530 DEAD COP "He doesn't really die in defense of the city as much as he just... dies." "We don't even say his name in case it'll make him fall over on the spot." "It seems superstitious but it happens so often that it's hard to tell if there's an actual link." "deadcopdeadcopdeadcopdeadcopdeadc- OH poo poo THERE HE GOES"
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Jan 10, 2019 06:19
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Funny how devils don't seem to have this issue (that we've seen yet), although I notice that many blue imps seem to default to female. I would guess that their gender is more fluid as they have many rebirths in their lives when "leveling up" through the devil colors. Blues tend to be female and reds tend to be male, but it seems to vary some still. I suspect some like cio are solidly one gender while most are more fluid.
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Jan 10, 2019 07:10
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I think I found our new friend here http://killsixbilliondemons.wikia.com/wiki/25_Vengeful_Iron_Suffers_No_Heretics_or_Fools_to_Live
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Jan 10, 2019 10:13
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eke out posted:can someone remind me where they lay out why angels are so insanely attached to the notion of being male? it's just because someone in charge said they were male and they're law robots who fetishize order right (and they're the opposite of devils that have quite fluid gender) There's probably some part of the law that says all angels must act as brothers and so they reject the possibility of there being sisters.
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Jan 10, 2019 10:23
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Cat Mattress posted:There's probably some part of the law that says all angels must act as brothers and so they reject the possibility of there being sisters. This and it probably would have made a lot more sense when all the angels were skyscraper sized battle bots rather than walking suits of armor crafted by humans.
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Jan 10, 2019 11:30
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Hellbore posted:I think I found our new friend here Cool, I thought I recognised him from somewhere.
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Jan 10, 2019 15:44
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eke out posted:can someone remind me where they lay out why angels are so insanely attached to the notion of being male? it's just because someone in charge said they were male and they're law robots who fetishize order right (and they're the opposite of devils that have quite fluid gender) they eschew gender, but calling them he is slightly less inapplicable than calling them she and, as creatures of pure order, over the ages 'slightly less wrong' has a way of shifting into 'only acceptable form of address.' as white chain memorably commented shortly before tearing off her face: their flesh is the flame immortal! they do not beget! what does it matter that she feels a little feminine? respond the angel chorus: "that's weird you're weird better stay in the void a few hundred years to work this out of your system"
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Jan 10, 2019 16:37
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:and, as creatures of pure order, over the ages 'slightly less wrong' has a way of shifting into 'only acceptable form of address.' as white chain memorably commented shortly before tearing off her face: their flesh is the flame immortal! they do not beget! what does it matter that she feels a little feminine?
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Jan 10, 2019 17:20
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:they eschew gender, but calling them he is slightly less inapplicable than calling them she Yeah, there you have it right there. ANGELS: Insipid gender! We shall call each other brother. WHITE CHAIN: How about "sister" if you don't care ANGELS: What ever are you talking about, brother? Brother, we'd never say sister, as gender is for dumb butts, brother. It is a human concept, my good man, and we'd never deign to their level, dudebro.
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Jan 10, 2019 17:33
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God, I love this comic's worldbuilding. Unhealthy gender dynamics for angels whose system of gender is entirely separate from the human kind are so good.
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Jan 10, 2019 19:08
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Unhealthy for sure. Just look at the way White Chain refers to Petal Knights: https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/seeker-of-thrones-7-80/ "Monster." "Deviant." "Abandoned your true nature." White Chain really is someone stuck between three worlds - she likely is jealous of the Petal Knights who have embraced their humanity... But is also jealous of the Thorn Knights that have fully embraced their ideology. And she's trying to live up to the long-lost ideals of her own Concordant Knights, but is increasingly finding it hard to do without being pulled towards one of the other two. Me, I'm hoping she finds her own, new way. That seems to be one of the themes of this comic after all. (God I loving love this comic. Can you tell?)
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Jan 10, 2019 19:30
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i wonder what qualities angel blood has
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Jan 10, 2019 19:50
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82 White Chain Born In Emptiness Returns To Subdue The Patriachy
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Jan 10, 2019 19:51
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Tollymain posted:i wonder what qualities angel blood has Very hot, white, made of fire?
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Jan 10, 2019 20:21
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Tenebrais posted:Very hot, white, made of fire?
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Jan 10, 2019 20:29
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Tenebrais posted:Very hot, white, made of nuclear fire? Fixed, and now you're doxxing ME. e: or I'm doxxing myself, I guess.
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Jan 10, 2019 20:43
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Tollymain posted:i wonder what qualities angel blood has 1) it makes people post about it for pages and pages, and 2) tastes of liquorice
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Jan 10, 2019 21:16
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Powerful aunts isn't just K6BD's thing https://twitter.com/Orbitaldropkick/status/1083453302774398978?s=09
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Jan 10, 2019 21:52
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Did we miss this one? https://twitter.com/Orbitaldropkick/status/1083146823852875776
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Jan 10, 2019 22:14
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Did we miss this one? Hey look it's Ingsvld's descendant.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:21
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Funny how devils don't seem to have this issue (that we've seen yet), although I notice that many blue imps seem to default to female. I would guess that their gender is more fluid as they have many rebirths in their lives when "leveling up" through the devil colors. Poltergrift posted:God, I love this comic's worldbuilding. Unhealthy gender dynamics for angels whose system of gender is entirely separate from the human kind are so good. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 22:24
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Dead Reckoning posted:Devils are defined by, among other things, their fluidity and distain for norms. Concordance Angels are defined by their inflexibility and dedication to an ordered universe. It's not really had to figure out how, having been wrought from the "masculine" division of divinity, they identified as male and don't appreciate folks who rock the boat on this or any other topic. And yet look at Cio's whole arc in the Devil council. None of them think she can change. They may not have as many hangups about gender, but in their own way, they're as dogmatic as angels. Dead Reckoning posted:I'm not really sure to what extent you can define something as psychologically unhealthy for a society of beings of pure order who live and die in an infinite cosmic cycle. Except that's a huge theme in this comic - that beings like Cio and White Chain do indeed have feelings and personality outside the supposed norm. Cio can be a good person and change despite her creation and history, and White Chain can be her own person and find happiness despite her creation and heritage. They may have been created from pure chaos and order, but who says that needs to control their destiny? They're as sentient as humans. Hell, they were CREATED by humans - the masks and armor were, anyway. Of COURSE they'll come out being just as varied psychologically as humans. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 22:36
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Except it's super clear that, in the context of their species and societies, White Chain and Cio are the unhealthy ones. If you examine it from the lens of early 21st century western society, then White Chain and Cio are healthy, non-conforming individuals who need acceptance, but the Angels and Devils don't see it that way.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:43
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm not really sure to what extent you can define something as psychologically unhealthy for a society of beings of pure order who live and die in an infinite cosmic cycle. I donno, White Chain sure seems like she could be healthier to me. Not to mention the nothing matters of Michael,the almost Stockholm syndrome of Metatron, or the omnicidalness, and if the brief look of a very feminine and human face is anything to go by self hating, Juggernaut.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:49
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Dead Reckoning posted:Except it's super clear that, in the context of their species and societies, White Chain and Cio are the unhealthy ones. If you examine it from the lens of early 21st century western society, then White Chain and Cio are healthy, non-conforming individuals who need acceptance, but the Angels and Devils don't see it that way. Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying. Well, except that I wouldn't call either particularly healthy, psychologically, but like LGBT people in our society, that's likely caused by, well, living in a society that tells them their existence is wrong. That would (and does) gently caress anyone up in the head.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:54
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Rotten Red Rod posted:And yet look at Cio's whole arc in the Devil council. None of them think she can change. They may not have as many hangups about gender, but in their own way, they're as dogmatic as angels. To quote the man himself, Zoss: "Fate is not a cage except to those who fear it"
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Jan 10, 2019 22:54
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Dead Reckoning posted:Except it's super clear that, in the context of their species and societies, White Chain and Cio are the unhealthy ones. If you examine it from the lens of early 21st century western society, then White Chain and Cio are healthy, non-conforming individuals who need acceptance, but the Angels and Devils don't see it that way. Well, sure, but angel standards also claim that Thorn Knight armor practices, best described as "perpetual self-mutilation via stuffing yourself into an iron maiden and then just kind of living there for a while," are more virtuous, and more indicative of a functional mindset, than being a concordant knight who wants to be called something other than "brother." Cultural relativism, sure, but "their society thinks it's fine, so it's fine" only goes so far.
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Jan 10, 2019 22:59
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I'd have to scour the comic to see if Juggernaut Star ever calls anyone "brother", but I think at this point Thorn Knights are beyond caring about gender when they want to wipe literally all life out. In a way it's refreshing - they hate White Chain because she is, not because she is a she! Edit: I'm probably wrong because Juggernaut Star calls her "deviant" a lot tho. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 23:03
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying. The position that someone who identifies as a gender that doesn't match their biological sex can be considered normal and healthy has only recently started to gain mainstream traction here, on earth, and you're trying to apply it to impossibly ancient, immortal, sexless warrior-monks made of atomic fire. Rotten Red Rod posted:They may have been created from pure chaos and order, but who says that needs to control their destiny? They're as sentient as humans. Hell, they were CREATED by humans - the masks and armor were, anyway. Of COURSE they'll come out being just as varied psychologically as humans. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 10, 2019 23:18
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The first words that Juggernaut says to White Chain are "Hello, deviant." For context, this immediately follows the page where White Chain asks what does it matter if she feels feminine.
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Jan 10, 2019 23:27
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I like to imagine that 6 Juggernaut Star greets everyone that way, an angelic equivalent of "'Sup, fuckers?"
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Jan 10, 2019 23:30
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Dead Reckoning posted:The position that someone who identifies as a gender that doesn't match their biological sex can be considered normal and healthy has only recently started to gain mainstream traction here, on earth, and you're trying to apply it to impossibly ancient, immortal, sexless warrior-monks made of atomic fire. ... But that's exactly what this comic is doing? I'm not really sure what you're saying here. Dead Reckoning posted:An alien intelligence having the exact same psychological hang-ups as humans would be extremely boring. No, it'd be relatable. See: all of Star Trek. Spock isn't beloved because he's emotionless - it's because he's struggling with accepting his (very human) emotions.
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Jan 10, 2019 23:31
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im gay and so is white chain
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Jan 10, 2019 23:54
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Poltergrift posted:Well, sure, but angel standards also claim that Thorn Knight armor practices, best described as "perpetual self-mutilation via stuffing yourself into an iron maiden and then just kind of living there for a while," are more virtuous, and more indicative of a functional mindset, than being a concordant knight who wants to be called something other than "brother." Cultural relativism, sure, but "their society thinks it's fine, so it's fine" only goes so far. It doesn't physically hinder them in any way and it's not clear that angels feel pain, at all, so you're basically tsking at their equivalent of sick rear end gang tattoos, grandma For a society of shapeshifting cops changing your look to scare the crap out of criminals (everyone) and show allegiance to the ingroup makes perfect sense. Changing to something nonstandard just because you feel it reflects who you are on the inside is a show of individualism and deviant loyalties, it's way more threatening than having a spike for a head. Dead Reckoning posted:An alien intelligence having the exact same psychological hang-ups as humans would be extremely boring. in fiction they basically always do, unless it's for a punchline or one of those doofy sci-fi novels where everything comes down to a lengthy dissertation on 
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jan 11, 2019 |
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Jan 11, 2019 00:32
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:It doesn't physically hinder them in any way and it's not clear that angels feel pain, at all, so you're basically tsking at their equivalent of sick rear end gang tattoos, grandma They rip off their wings. Seems like that would hinder them a little -- in the void, at least.
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Jan 11, 2019 01:29
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Wings are the appendix of Angel anatomy.
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Jan 11, 2019 02:11
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