|
selec posted:feel free to call out the grift: Weird, you linked me to their PR page and not their financial disclosure. Did you intend to undercut your point so severely? 
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 02:54 |
|
|
selec posted:Hooooooooly poo poo. (a) bad things are still bad when worse things happen (b) a culture where fathers are the "protectors" and controllers of their daughter's sexuality, with ceremonies where fathers literally act as stand-ins for romantic partners, is a culture ripe for CSA
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:04
|
|
|
Koalas March posted:I honestly don't even want to post this picture but here is a totally normal not gross af thing I come in the thread and see what I think is a scene from Handmaid's Tale, or Lovecraftian Virgin sacrifices to a Dark God What the gently caress? Why would anyone willingly go to this thing? This is some Branch Davidian looking poo poo 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:05
|
|
|
Push El Burrito posted:Andrew Carnegie donated more than those church ladies so obviously he's the biggest leftist. I love that Evangelicals literally take this mentality to justify billionaires having a shitton of money (ie: they need to take all the money so they can give to charity!), and then completely ignore the parable about the rich man and the poor man giving money at the Temple. Sinister_Beekeeper posted:Well, that is clearly a bigger deal than you defending selec's racism Where have I been doing that? I objected to Skex painting all socialists here as the same as selec. You're projecting a LOT onto me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:05
|
|
|
looking up purity balls made me learn the existence of something even weirder and dumber: Silver Ring Thing is a virginity pledge program which encourages teens and young adults to remain sexually abstinent until marriage. It is based in the United States and was until 2005 partially funded by the U.S. federal government.[1] Drawing on Christian theology,[2] SRT uses rock/hip hop concert-style events in an attempt to appeal to 21st-century teenagers. SRT events feature high-energy music, club-style lighting and sound, music videos, sketch comedy, and a Christian abstinence message. During the gathering, participants commit to a vow of sexual abstinence until marriage by purchasing rings. Shortly before the end of the event, they receive their silver rings inscribed with Bible verses, which are usually worn on the ring finger of the left hand. The verse is 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, "For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication. That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour". The rings are tokens of their vow, a reminder of their decision to remain celibate. The rings also are a way to signal to others that they are pledged to celibacy. After they put on their rings, they take a vow to remain abstinent. Some studies of the efficacy of virginity pledges have found they may be effective in delaying vaginal intercourse but ineffective in reducing the rate of sexually transmitted infection. They also reduce the likelihood of contraceptive use.[3] Additionally, it has been reported that pledgers replace vaginal intercourse with other sexual activities, such as oral or anal sex.[3][4] At least one study has found no difference in the sexual behavior of pledgers and non-pledgers after controlling for pre-existing differences between the groups.[5]
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:05
|
|
|
selec posted:feel free to call out the grift: lol mennonites are actually pretty cool. Pity you linked the MCC and not the BMC, though! The BMC are pretty cool and very liberal because they were founded by a dude expelled from leadership at the MCC for being gay and he took his evil lefty ideas like 'I dunno maybe we shouldn't treat our women like property and make our council members swear to uphold 'proper lifestyles'' with him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:06
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Ah, that's a really good point. Yeah, that's the thing: the sisters don't look back on that aspect as a positive. They don't think that's a good way to go about it. But they put it into the context of "you work with the tools you've got" and back then, those were the tools the parents had. Those tools have certainly expanded since then; they're much more open to other kinds of people, so bringing a gay person around to a family event isn't a thing that bothers anyone or is even worth commenting on anymore. I think what I'm feeling here is this enormous sense of vertigo or displacement; I have a pretty realistic view of these people, and I like 'em. They're good people. But sometimes good people do bad poo poo. Voting republican is bad. But you take people as they are, and you work with what you have to work with. For instance, I suspect her mom is not going to vote Trump again. She's called him a "nasty man" a couple times since the election on those rare occasions we talk politics. Can't say I know one way or the other for her dad. But it's strange to see the ferocity to attack, to make these decisions based on a slice of information, even when it's presented with all these mitigating factors. For as judgmental and angry and hateful as we like to paint Republicans, I'm not seeing a lot of grace or understanding of the complexity of actual human lives here. I'm seeing the kind of childish manichean tendency we project onto the right, playing out in this context instead. Maybe GW Bush was right: "You're either with us, or against us." What do you say, thread?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:08
|
|
|
im the dude owning people who think I'm regressive by literally linking to the group that accidentally made their religious community better because they kicked a gay man out and made lgbt/women members feel unwelcome
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:08
|
|
|
Majorian posted:I...think you might be making unfounded assumptions about me. The point of the post you quoted is that I'm tired of Skex making unfair generalizations about leftists. I'm not making generalizations about leftists, I'm pointing out specific blind spots of a particular group of leftists. I consider myself a leftist, I'm also a liberal because my liberalism is what informs my leftism. I'm a leftist because I'm a liberal and I think that more leftist and thus more distributed less centrally concentrated systems of power distribution lead to better outcomes. Liberalism is the core of my morality, leftist policy is how I seek to promote that morality. I think that there are some "leftists" who put the leftist policy part first to the exclusion of the morality part often in the mistaken assumption that those more left policies will by nature be solve the morality issues, They do this despite their being precisely zero historical evidence that the one naturally follows the other. Moral values have to come first, as Molly Ivins pointed out even Adam Smith understood that which is why he wrote "The Theory of Moral Sentiments" before writing "The Wealth of Nations" , if you don't start with the moral values then one very quickly starts the slide down the path of rationalizing awful behavior because "the ends justify the means" and that's when the atrocities become inevitable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:09
|
|
|
selec posted:I agree, luckily that doesn't bear any resemblance at all to what my wife and her sisters' experiences were like. Even the most mild form I can think of still involves raising someone to believe that there's a very real possibility they could be sentenced to an eternity of hellfire and then giving them a ring and saying "God doesn't want you to have sex until marriage" and leaving them to draw the obvious conclusion that if they do, they will burn in hell.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:09
|
|
|
Akumu posted:(a) bad things are still bad when worse things happen Agree on both. But the potential for a thing to occur isn't the same as the thing occurring, and the insistence on only believing that bad faith/evil motivations could possibly exist for things we disagree with is a stunningly childish way to go about looking at the world.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:09
|
|
|
selec posted:Yeah, that's the thing: the sisters don't look back on that aspect as a positive. They don't think that's a good way to go about it. But they put it into the context of "you work with the tools you've got" and back then, those were the tools the parents had. Those tools have certainly expanded since then; they're much more open to other kinds of people, so bringing a gay person around to a family event isn't a thing that bothers anyone or is even worth commenting on anymore. Okay cool she's not going to vote for Trump, but she's still probably going to vote for other GOP shitheads who do the same thing Trump does but with less fanfare??
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:10
|
|
|
Skex posted:I'm not making generalizations about leftists, I'm pointing out specific blind spots of a particular group of leftists. Okay, but you do realize that when you say, "Full Socialism Now or nothing" Dems are a waste brigadiers," that's...not exactly the most precise term, now, is it? Those are labels that get applied to a LOT of people here, fairly or unfairly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:11
|
|
|
You know, I figured the state of emergency thing was going to happen, but I really didn't think it was literally going to take DISASTER RELIEF MONEY as its source of grief. Jesus loving Christ, we're literally about to have the US Senate empower a president to become a dictator so he can build a monumemt to white supremacism out of the bleached skulls of disaster victims, and our only hope of stopping it is a stolen Supreme Court.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:11
|
|
|
My parents have always been GOP stereotypes. For over a literal decade as an adult I attempted to have a reasonable, adult dialogue about issues when they'd interject their bigotry, racism, and religion into conversations. Trump was the tipping point for me. It wasn't some huge, dramatic "gently caress you" or "you guys are assholes" blowout, I just started limiting my interactions with them in order to mentally and emotionally process what's going on in our country right now in the healthiest way possible without losing my sanity. We barely speak now (once, maybe twice a year), but it's not because I "shut them out" or "severed", but rather because I just don't want to be around those types of negative and harmful attitudes. And the last time we spoke, I calmly made that clear in a very  tone - and also let them know that the door is always open back into my life if they can keep their racist, bigoted views to themselves and act like loving adults. Because spouting off anti-objective, anti-fact, anti-equal respect/tolerance views is what CHILDREN DO.Seriously, if you can't even manage that, then some your adulting credentials may be in jeopardy as well. I mean, if it's worth it to you keep those ties regardless then more power to you, it's your life. But don't expect a lot of reasonable, self aware people to agree that it's the morally right, or even justifiable thing to do.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:12
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1083485915606142984 They are trying really loving hard to get Trump to do this (horrible) idea and sign a clean CR, but I think there's a real risk that Trump does this and still refuses to sign a clean CR.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:12
|
|
|
selec posted:But it's strange to see the ferocity to attack, to make these decisions based on a slice of information, even when it's presented with all these mitigating factors. For as judgmental and angry and hateful as we like to paint Republicans, I'm not seeing a lot of grace or understanding of the complexity of actual human lives here. I'm seeing the kind of childish manichean tendency we project onto the right, playing out in this context instead. I'm seeing someone with the awareness to identify "bad poo poo" who is going to incredible lengths to make excuses for intransigence instead of being honest and earnest to both their own and their loved one's benefit. If that's what others are seeing here, that's why you're getting so much pushback.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:12
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:lol mennonites are actually pretty cool. Yeah, I've been coy about calling them out as Mennonites because there's a lot of conception of them as The Cool Amish, but they are a pretty wildly diverse faith. You still have Republican voting Mennonites who refuse to stand for or take the pledge! poo poo doesn't map onto our preconceived notions in the ways we expect. It's interesting because you have a church of people dedicated to Peace and Justice, and how that plays out varies across the congregations. And yes, BMC would be cooler, but again, perfect the enemy of good. The schism within the church most recently was over gay marriage. It's still ongoing, and it's interesting as an outsider with no real stakes in it (I'm not a believer, and am not invested one way or the other in the Mennonite church as a whole) to see a genuine one play out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:13
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:You know, I figured the state of emergency thing was going to happen, but I really didn't think it was literally going to take DISASTER RELIEF MONEY as its source of grief. Jesus loving Christ, we're literally about to have the US Senate empower a president to become a dictator so he can build a monumemt to white supremacism out of the bleached skulls of disaster victims, and our only hope of stopping it is a stolen Supreme Court. It's pretty much the only outcome it could have: disaster relief funds are just about the only funds not pre-committed to an existing project, because, by their nature, they can't be. There's nowhere else to pull money from because, ironically, the Republicans have run the government on pure debt for my entire natural life.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:13
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:They are trying really loving hard to get Trump to do this (horrible) idea and sign a clean CR, but I think there's a real risk that Trump does this and still refuses to sign a clean CR. i honestly dont think he will sign a clean CR even if he does this open power grab bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:13
|
|
|
What's important about people calling out bad behavior in their friends and family is that when those friends and family get out into the wider society and a POC/minority/women says, "that poo poo ain't cool" then it's harder for them to outright dismiss it as just, "those people" making problems. When you confront one person about that, it's never just the impact on that one person. They may tell their friends or your family members to watch out for HSS, because if you bring up politics he's gonna get confrontational and maybe, just maybe, that cousin or uncle who likes you thinks, "huh, I wonder why" and either talks to you directly with a mind that could be changed, or they start having some introspection themselves. Some people make cutting people out of their life the way they see to make change. That works for some. Some people make confronting it whenever they see/hear it the way they want to make change. That works for some. Some people make politics a very obvious no-go zone with very clear reasons why so that poo poo's not brought up in family gatherings, thus stopping even a little of the propaganda spew. You know what, that's cool, I understand that. My father picked up a hobby that's rather rife with rightwing nut jobs who post stupid memes and awful takes on Facebook, where their organizational things happen, so he started getting exposed. When he started bringing up those things as if they were truth, I confronted that, and luckily, it seems to have stopped the slide and brought him towards the left a bit. But, if he had continued the slide right into Republicanism, Trumpism, and modern conservatism, things that seek to make life harder for his grandchild's future simply because of my kid's ancestry, then he would have to make the choice of seeing the grandkid or going Trump.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:13
|
|
|
Man, this purity ball poo poo....  Lets uh, go back to talking about Trump's brainworms.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:14
|
|
|
Pylons posted:Okay cool she's not going to vote for Trump, but she's still probably going to vote for other GOP shitheads who do the same thing Trump does but with less fanfare?? I mean, maybe! Seriously, is this where we're at? Why not just start murdering them? After all, if they have no place in civil society, then what do we do with them? Just shun them all, and refuse to go to their funerals? Why not just go for the gulag option and be done with it? You've given up on the notion of civil society if you cannot imagine a future living alongside, in some capacity, with people who disagree with you. I'm kinda weirded out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:16
|
|
|
Too Shy Guy posted:I'm seeing someone with the awareness to identify "bad poo poo" who is going to incredible lengths to make excuses for intransigence instead of being honest and earnest to both their own and their loved one's benefit. I'm not making excuses for their intransigence, I'm just refusing to believe there's more value in completely cutting two kind, loving people from our lives than having them in our lives. Do you think they'd stop voting GOP? Or what? What's the actual strategy besides policing other's relationships? Should I be calling my father-in-laws clients and letting them know that 20 years ago he gave my wife a purity ring? Like...what's the ultimate goal here?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:17
|
|
|
selec posted:Yeah, I've been coy about calling them out as Mennonites because there's a lot of conception of them as The Cool Amish, but they are a pretty wildly diverse faith. You still have Republican voting Mennonites who refuse to stand for or take the pledge! poo poo doesn't map onto our preconceived notions in the ways we expect. It's not really 'perfect is the enemy of good', it's more 'good is the enemy of bad'. I was trying to be polite tbh but MCC is loving trash and in no way 'the cool amish' except that they're not cartoon people who make you live in the 1800's, they're the ones who are pretty much indistinguishable from tradcaths who think paying indulgence makes the things they're ignoring actually vanish. The BMC literally had to come in existence because the MCC was throwing anyone not living 'proper lifestyles' out and casting them off from the community. I've worked with a lot of people in it who have lost friends and loved ones to suicide because their totally liberal and not for structure MCC church straight up shunning them for being outed. I genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, want you think why you're trying to take this stance that actually they're the real progressives. Is it just because you don't want to make christmas awkward?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:18
|
|
|
selec posted:I mean, maybe! No one's suggesting anything of the sort, dude, calm down. HelloSailorSign brought up a really good, comprehensive list of ways to deal with this poo poo without destroying your relationships with people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:18
|
|
|
selec posted:Agree on both. But the potential for a thing to occur isn't the same as the thing occurring, and the insistence on only believing that bad faith/evil motivations could possibly exist for things we disagree with is a stunningly childish way to go about looking at the world. I think purity balls are bad and abusive per se. It is part of a system that fundamentally views women as chattel. I don't think it's possible to go through that without getting twisted about agency and sexuality. The surface motivations of the people perpetuating that system are a red herring in the argument of whether or not it should be resisted; everything you've been saying about childish views of the complexity of humans is deflection. You've made it plain that the primary reason you don't want to speak up is to maintain tranquility, to not make waves. That's an understandable reaction but it's not really defensible.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:18
|
|
|
Saint Celestine posted:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/01/trump-cog-decline/548759/ . Indeed, as a key indicator of neurological status, Trump’s distinctive diction has not gone without scrutiny. Trump was once a more articulate person who sometimes told stories that had beginnings, middles, and ends, whereas he now leaps from thought to thought. He has come to rely on a small stable of adjectives, often involving superlatives. An improbably high proportion of what he describes is either the greatest or the worst he’s ever seen; absolutely terrible or the best; tiny or huge. The frontal lobes also control speech, and over the years, Donald Trump’s fluency has regressed, and his vocabulary contracted. In May of last year, the journalist Sharon Begley at Stat analyzed changes in his speech patterns during interviews over the years. She noted that in the 1980s and 1990s, Trump used phrases like “a certain innate intelligence” and “These are the only casinos in the United States that are so rated.” I would add, “I think Jesse Jackson has done himself very proud.” He also more frequently finished sentences and thoughts. Here he is with Larry King on CNN in 1987: King: Should the mayor of the city be someone who knows business? Trump: Well, what we need is competence. We don’t have that. We have a one-line artist. That’s all he is ... Or on Oprah in 1988: Winfrey: What do you think of this year’s presidential race, the way it’s shaping up? Trump: Well, I think it’s going to be very interesting. I think that probably George Bush has an advantage, in terms of the election. I think that probably people would say he’s got, like, that little edge in terms of the incumbency, etcetera, etcetera. But I think Jesse Jackson has done himself very proud. I think Michael Dukakis has done a hell of a job. And George Bush has done a hell of a job. They all went in there sort of as semi-underdogs—including George Bush—and they’ve all come out. I think people that are around all three of those candidates can be very proud of the jobs they’ve done. Compare that with the meandering, staccato bursts of today. From an interview with the Associated Press: People want the border wall. My base definitely wants the border wall, my base really wants it—you’ve been to many of the rallies. Okay, the thing they want more than anything is the wall. My base, which is a big base; I think my base is 45 percent. You know, it’s funny. The Democrats, they have a big advantage in the Electoral College. Big, big, big advantage ... The Electoral College is very difficult for a Republican to win, and I will tell you, the people want to see it. They want to see the wall. Ben Michaelis, a psychologist who analyzes speech as part of cognitive assessments in court cases, told Begley that although some decline in cognitive functioning would be expected, Trump has exhibited a “clear reduction in linguistic sophistication over time” with “simpler word choices and sentence structure.” This is evident even off camera, as in last week’s post-golf sit-down with The New York Times at his resort in Florida: The tax cut will be, the tax bill, prediction, will be far bigger than anyone imagines. Expensing will be perhaps the greatest of all provisions. Where you can do something, you can buy something … Piece of equipment … You can do lots of different things, and you can write it off and expense it in one year. That will be one of the great stimuli in history. You watch. That’ll be one of the big … People don’t even talk about expensing, what’s the word, “expensing.” [Inaudible.] One-year expensing. Watch the money coming back into the country, it’ll be more money than people anticipate. But, Michael, I know the details of taxes better than anybody. Better than the greatest CPA. I know the details of health care better than most, better than most. And if I didn’t, I couldn’t have talked all these people into doing ultimately only to be rejected. Now here’s the good news. We’ve created associations, millions of people are joining associations. Millions. That were formerly in Obamacare or didn’t have insurance. Or didn’t have health care. Millions of people. That’s gonna be a big bill, you watch. It could be as high as 50 percent of the people. You watch. So that’s a big thing … The paper said that the transcript was “lightly edited for content and clarity.” If Trump’s limited and hyperbolic speech were simply a calculated political move—he repeated the phrase “no collusion” 16 times in the Times interview, which some pundits deemed an advertising technique—then we would also expect an occasional glimpse behind the curtain. In addition to repeating simplistic phrases to inundate the collective subconscious with narratives like “no collusion,” Trump would give at least a few interviews in which he strung together complex sentences—for example, to make a case for why Americans should rest assured that there was no collusion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:19
|
|
|
selec posted:I mean, maybe! selec posted:I'm not making excuses for their intransigence, I'm just refusing to believe there's more value in completely cutting two kind, loving people from our lives than having them in our lives. No you should have an honest discussion with them about your concerns, instead of whatever the gently caress you are going on about here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:19
|
|
|
Koalas March posted:Was he the Hitler youth from Where Hands Touch?? Cousin got shot by his dad after Thanksgiving dinner and uh, yes to two of the above. Lemming posted:It's pretty loving privileged to feel comfortable never calling out racism in your family because it would make you slightly uncomfortable and then extrapolating that to saying Democrats shouldn't make anybody uncomfortable for being racist or they might vote for racists It's pretty loving privileged to discount honor killing as a possibility.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:19
|
|
|
Tbh, one of the things that the people I've loved most have all had in common so far is a willingness, even an eagerness, to call me out on my poo poo
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:19
|
|
|
Always classy. https://twitter.com/AlxThomp/status/1083446595297951745
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:19
|
|
|
So, no noticeable delays at two hub airports today. Is it possible that the TSA is totally useless and just doing less useless bullshit means things move at the same speed with half the crew? Obviously plenty of time for it all to go wrong, but sample size 2, it hasn't gone wrong everywhere yet today.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:20
|
|
|
Personally I think there's a bit of a difference between people who disagree with me and people who at best want me to not exist in public (and at worst dead) just because I'm dating a guy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:20
|
|
|
Akumu posted:I think purity balls are bad and abusive per se. It is part of a system that fundamentally views women as chattel. I don't think it's possible to go through that without getting twisted about agency and sexuality. Especially since it seems to be causing selec at least a certain amount of cognitive dissonance, which is probably why we're still discussing it: he knows this isn't a tenable situation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:20
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:It's not really 'perfect is the enemy of good', it's more 'good is the enemy of bad'. I was trying to be polite tbh but MCC is loving trash and in no way 'the cool amish' except that they're not cartoon people who make you live in the 1800's, they're the ones who are pretty much indistinguishable from tradcaths who think paying indulgence makes the things they're ignoring actually vanish. The BMC literally had to come in existence because the MCC was throwing anyone not living 'proper lifestyles' out and casting them off from the community. I've worked with a lot of people in it who have lost friends and loved ones to suicide because their totally liberal and not for structure MCC church straight up shunning them for being outed. I genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, want you think why you're trying to take this stance that actually they're the real progressives. Is it just because you don't want to make christmas awkward? Sexpig, you're alright, but we're not going to agree on this. The MCC is no more trash than many, many organizations who don't give out the exact help we wish they would on the exact terms we wish they would. But you do you. I don't think the MCC are the real progressives; just re-emphasizing what I've been saying all along: complicate your understanding. See that good things can be done by people we disagree with, even hate. It's a much bigger world than we would make it if we got to cast out everyone we disagree with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:20
|
|
|
Trump saying the wall would lead to savings by needing less people to guard the border translates to less jobs on the border. How has this not been spun by democrats
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:21
|
|
|
Too Shy Guy posted:No you should have an honest discussion with them about your concerns, instead of whatever the gently caress you are going on about here. We've had that discussion, and it always comes back to abortion. I have reached the limits of my rhetorical abilities with them. So we know where we all stand.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:22
|
|
|
Criminy. Come on, Ginsburg, give us a couple more years.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 02:54 |
|
|
I like that the last 10 pages has been of one poster melting down over their white privilege and now somehow he has morphed into implicitly supporting the abuse of women and children. Shits wild.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2019 00:22
|
|
