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Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Melth posted:

Come to think of it, is there any reason your soul would be less capable of beating down Alduin than if you go there alive? I don't think we get any indication that the heroes or gods in Sovngarde are any less capable than they were alive.

I've wondered about this too. I also wonder what exactly happens if the Last Dragonborn (let's assume for the argument's sake that they're Nordic and not claimed by any daedric princes) dies in the flesh in Sovngarde. Like, do they just get to resume the fight standing over their own corpse?

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MinistryofLard
Mar 22, 2013


Goblin babies did nothing wrong.


Given how many Daedra the average Dragonborn has pledged their soul to, it's probably a crapshoot if they make it Sovngarde at all.

MinistryofLard fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jan 13, 2019

RandomMagus
May 3, 2017

Melth posted:

Come to think of it, is there any reason your soul would be less capable of beating down Alduin than if you go there alive? I don't think we get any indication that the heroes or gods in Sovngarde are any less capable than they were alive.

Haven't gone through it in a while, but aren't the spirits in the mist pretty disoriented? I think you have to actually reach the Hall to get back to being fully lucid and powerful. Or at least escape the mists. Theoretically you'd die, reach Sovngarde, and get eaten by Alduin before you get to the Hall and team up with any warriors there.

Plus if you aren't a Nord you probably have a different afterlife.

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow
I think the fog is something unusual to Sovngarde and is caused by Alduin's presence.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
Days 61-62: Skuldafn fen koz Krongrah

I'd forgotten how wonderful this final dungeon is!

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
I have never seen Skyrim's last dungeon before, or its DLC, because the game is just so huge that I get burned out doing side quests. I'm looking forward to seeing what it throws at you for the ending, even if it won't be as unique or interesting as what Morrowind did.

Sordas Volantyr
Jan 11, 2015

Now, everybody, walk like a Jekhar.

(God, these running animations are terrible.)
By the by, is there some reason you've stuck with the default healing spell instead of picking up Fast Healing/ Close Wounds?

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Slaan posted:

I have never seen Skyrim's last dungeon before, or its DLC, because the game is just so huge that I get burned out doing side quests. I'm looking forward to seeing what it throws at you for the ending, even if it won't be as unique or interesting as what Morrowind did.

Don't worry, it's definitely not just the same tomb full of draugr you've already seen 48 times only longer.

RandomMagus
May 3, 2017
I think at the start of the video, 8ish minutes in, the Dragon buddy desummons because of the Atronach's timer. Might be a bug with him not having his own summon timer or not setting a new value or something?

And at the end, the beam of light was shooting up into the sky before the fight because the portal IS actually open. If you run past the priest you can enter the portal before he closes it and make him look like a hugely incompetent chump.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Eric the Mauve posted:

Don't worry, it's definitely not just the same tomb full of draugr you've already seen 48 times only longer.
Yeah, prepare to be underwhelmed.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

anilEhilated posted:

Yeah, prepare to be underwhelmed.

Bah! I loved that area! It was really cool to have outdoor mazes where you can run around fighting Draugr on multiple layers, the layouts of the mini dungeons were new, if simple, and even the main interior section broke some new ground in its layout. It was the most fun I've had fighting draugr in years I think.



Sordas Volantyr posted:

By the by, is there some reason you've stuck with the default healing spell instead of picking up Fast Healing/ Close Wounds?

Several reasons. Firstly, in pure magicka efficiency I believe the default spell is better than or as good as all other restoration spells. Secondly, I am rarely in a situation where I need a healing spell to grant me HP fast. When I need HP immediately, the only smart approach is to drink potions. Thirdly, I don't have any hotkey slots to spare, numbers 1-8 are all used up and I have more things I would love to cram in there, so I can't have two different heal spells hotkeys.

The only real plus for using Close Wounds, etc. would be that I would gain slightly more XP per point of damage. Considering that I don't actually benefit much at all from level ups at this point though, I'm in no hurry to gain a bunch more.

Sordas Volantyr
Jan 11, 2015

Now, everybody, walk like a Jekhar.

(God, these running animations are terrible.)

Melth posted:

[...]in pure magicka efficiency, I believe the default spell is better than or as good as all other restoration spells.
Well, I decided to run the numbers on this, since I had nothing better to do.

Short version: You're correct.


Long version: If we ignorine any bonuses to healing or reductions in cost (they wouldn't matter, for reference; this just makes the numbers easier on me):

Healing recovers 10 points of health/second at a cost of 12 magicka/second

Fast Healing recovers 50 points of health instantly at a cost of 73 magicka

Close Wounds recovers 100 points of health instantly at a cost of 126 magicka

And for shits and giggles, Grand Healing recovers 200 points of health instantly for you and any allies around you within a 15 ft. radius for 254 magicka.

Healing is more efficent than any of these, but the numbers are different for every single spell:

You lose 13 magicka using Fast Healing over using Healing for five seconds.
You lose 6 magicka using Close Wounds over using Healing for ten seconds.
You lose 14 magicka using Grand Healing over using Healing for twenty seconds.

Quick note about Grand Healing: Although it's the least efficent choice for single-target healing, it becomes your most efficent option for healing up multiple people once Heal Other has to be used more than four times to get all the other folks back to full health.*

*not that this would come up in the context of this run, since allies are forbidden, and Draugr and Atronachs cannot be healed by Grand Healing.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
Does the patch also fix the part where Aspect of Terror also boosts your fire spells if you get the perk that causes fire spells to have a fear effect? If not, you still have one way to increase your damage output! There's also some decent caster gear in Dragonborn, though I'm not sure it can compete with things like Morokei and Ring of the Erudite in raw usefulness.

There's also situations where Storm Call is a viable damage shout, just not that many, and it's arguably not worth the utility of locking yourself out of Unrelenting Force and aggroing everything in range. It's definitely ahead of anything that's not Soul Tear.


Also worth noting is that Novice Restoration costs a single perk point and is required to gain any other Restoration perks, while doubling the health per magicka of any other Restoration spells requires multiple perk points which do nothing but make those spells cheaper.

Mountaineer
Aug 29, 2008

Imagine a rod breaking on a robot face - forever
Guess I've never been to Skuldafn at this low of a level. I thought it was always full of Draugr Deathlords, except for the interior areas where the draugr remain weirdly low level.

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
I like Skuldafn, and as a set piece I love the next zone coming up. Skyrim combat will always be Skyrim combat, but I found the final quest to be a high point of the game personally.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Really? I find the finale boring to the extreme but we'll get to that when we get there; suffice to say absolutely no imagination or interest were involved anywhere within that area and quest.

It's literally the most boring version of afterlife they could have come up with.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
You should try turning up the volume while you're there, friend.

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


The thing that always gets me about Skyrim is how dull and lifeless everything looks. Like, the actual gameplay is pretty repetitive and there are lots of things they could have done better, but it's decent fun. But I keep thinking everything in the game looks exactly the same even though that's obviously not true. It feels that way though. I think it's because of a lack of visual contrast. Nothing's ever really dark or bright. The difference between a torchlit cave and a field of flowers at midday is practically zero. They put light sources into the game but then made them completely pointless by making sure it never actually gets dark, and they put all these different environments weather conditions in but made them underwhelming by turning the contrast way down.

mortons stork
Oct 13, 2012
Man, I know that you are getting the opposite experience, but it really seems like a chore to have a dungeon full your basic draugr enemy but at a level where it takes 10 minutes of pounding them with fireballs (15 without the manaregen from morokei and the fondue) and also they one-shot you.

You do have a way of making it interesting, but I genuinely think this is the worst of Skyrim. There are interesting and fun encounters, but these are not it. And I'm thankful that we're not yet at the point where every enemy is a deathlord and takes 5 hours to down.

sweet geek swag
Mar 29, 2006

Adjust lasers to FUN!





mortons stork posted:

Man, I know that you are getting the opposite experience, but it really seems like a chore to have a dungeon full your basic draugr enemy but at a level where it takes 10 minutes of pounding them with fireballs (15 without the manaregen from morokei and the fondue) and also they one-shot you.

You do have a way of making it interesting, but I genuinely think this is the worst of Skyrim. There are interesting and fun encounters, but these are not it. And I'm thankful that we're not yet at the point where every enemy is a deathlord and takes 5 hours to down.

That sort of gameplay is because he is playing on Legendary difficulty. Even on Master things take much less time to die. That's why this is a challenge run.

RandomMagus
May 3, 2017

sweet geek swag posted:

That sort of gameplay is because he is playing on Legendary difficulty. Even on Master things take much less time to die. That's why this is a challenge run.

The challenge is at least 50% tedium. Honestly I still watch these videos because I like the lore dumps Melth works in as he finds things, the actual gameplay isn't worth paying attention to because Skyrim is so same-y. Once you've seen one fight with his current spell selection you've essentially seen them all. The tactics don't really change.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
The dragon masks are a pretty neat concept. Beat a boss and you can strap them to your face to channel their power.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Glazius posted:

The dragon masks are a pretty neat concept. Beat a boss and you can strap them to your face to channel their power.
Well, if by "channel their power" you mean things like "be able to carry more stuff"...

WFGuy
Feb 18, 2011

Press X to jump, then press X again!
Toilet Rascal

anilEhilated posted:

Well, if by "channel their power" you mean things like "be able to carry more stuff"...

This is a game where "Carry some more things" is treated as potentially just as valuable as "Summon the Ancient Magicks of the Immortal Dragons to Destroy Your Foes," so that fits. Although it's already a game where any old mage can lug half a dragon around and still climb a nearly-vertical cliff face like a mountain goat, so its relationship with carrying capacity is weird from the start.

Staltran
Jan 3, 2013

Fallen Rib

Sordas Volantyr posted:

Well, I decided to run the numbers on this, since I had nothing better to do.

Short version: You're correct.


Long version: If we ignorine any bonuses to healing or reductions in cost (they wouldn't matter, for reference; this just makes the numbers easier on me):

Healing recovers 10 points of health/second at a cost of 12 magicka/second

Fast Healing recovers 50 points of health instantly at a cost of 73 magicka

Close Wounds recovers 100 points of health instantly at a cost of 126 magicka

And for shits and giggles, Grand Healing recovers 200 points of health instantly for you and any allies around you within a 15 ft. radius for 254 magicka.

Healing is more efficent than any of these, but the numbers are different for every single spell:

You lose 13 magicka using Fast Healing over using Healing for five seconds.
You lose 6 magicka using Close Wounds over using Healing for ten seconds.
You lose 14 magicka using Grand Healing over using Healing for twenty seconds.

Quick note about Grand Healing: Although it's the least efficent choice for single-target healing, it becomes your most efficent option for healing up multiple people once Heal Other has to be used more than four times to get all the other folks back to full health.*

*not that this would come up in the context of this run, since allies are forbidden, and Draugr and Atronachs cannot be healed by Grand Healing.

But you don't regen magicka while casting. If casting Fast Healing takes one second, you only lose 13-4*(magicka regen per second) magicka over using Healing for five seconds. So Fast Healing is better if (you have the half cost apprentice restoration perk and) your magicka regen (in combat) is 3.25 or more. Unless I'm missing something, with the Ring of the Erudite alone a level 1 character would have 3.33 magicka regen per second while in combat. I'm not sure how long it actually takes to cast, but 1 second sounds about right.

Sordas Volantyr
Jan 11, 2015

Now, everybody, walk like a Jekhar.

(God, these running animations are terrible.)
Man, I hope Melth didn't just abandon this.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Sordas Volantyr posted:

Man, I hope Melth didn't just abandon this.

Almost posted this yesterday

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

Sordas Volantyr posted:

Man, I hope Melth didn't just abandon this.

I've been trying to find time to continue, we're right at one of my favorite parts.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
Just started editing the next episode! And I found time to work on AoM a bit too, for those here who also follow that LP.

Colander Crotch
Nov 24, 2005

I- I don't even know what you just called me!
Hell yeah! Looking forward to it!

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Melth posted:

Just started editing the next episode! And I found time to work on AoM a bit too, for those here who also follow that LP.
:neckbeard:

:neckbeard:x2

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!
It's somewhat telling that after putting the video on youtube I was still too busy to actually post it here until today:

Day 62: Victory and Sovngarde!

Definitely one of my favorite parts of Skyrim.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
Nice to see an episode again. And an episode ending the main story at that! Good to have you back

Sordas Volantyr
Jan 11, 2015

Now, everybody, walk like a Jekhar.

(God, these running animations are terrible.)
You mentioned Tsun being really tall, and that's why he's so fast. He is, in fact, the tallest NPC in the game at a scale of 1.34 (Altmer, for reference, are 1.08)! In fact, the only other NPCs even close are the Keepers in the Soul Cairn and one fellow that I am almost 100% certain this run will never see, at 1.2 each!

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Oh look, it's the most boring underworld ever.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Now I'm really curious about where Hjalti goes now. Whenever I've done a playthrough this is where I often burn out and lose interest in the character.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!

CommonShore posted:

Now I'm really curious about where Hjalti goes now. Whenever I've done a playthrough this is where I often burn out and lose interest in the character.

I am also curious about where he goes now! I mean, I know what his strategy is from here in-character, but I have no idea about what the details will entail! It's fun doing something all-new:

Day 63-64: Cultes des Fooles

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
Nice, I've been looking forward to this part. Dragonborn is a wholly solid DLC, especially compared to everything Dawnguard throws at you.

I'm sure you don't want any spoilers, but there is a quest hook you walked past which is unlikely to come up on its own again. You have to sift through the ash piles left by the ash spawn at the ruined farm to advance that particular quest.

mortons stork
Oct 13, 2012
Wow, an actually intriguing plot hook, an interesting looking place, some weird architecture, a tiny spark of what made Morrowind interesting?
I didn't think this game had it in it.

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anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

mortons stork posted:

Wow, an actually intriguing plot hook, an interesting looking place, some weird architecture, a tiny spark of what made Morrowind interesting?
I didn't think this game had it in it.
Yeah. If the entire game was as tight as Dragonborn I'd be all over it. Although admittedly the nostalgia for Morrowind plays a role there as well.
Bethesda honestly keeps showing that their worlds - even while getting progressively smaller - are still too large to fill with interesting content. Give them a smaller space like Solstheim and Far Harbor and they can come up with something resembling quality design.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Jul 19, 2019

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