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I think the general problem with TKD is that it can be really good or exactly Mall Karate. A friend's dad is a grand master or whatever and she posted a video of him giving an 8 year old girl a black belt. I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough.
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Jan 12, 2019 05:02
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Tiger Rock is a horror show in my area (talking about mall karate). I went to a demonstration by their head blackbelt and he literally failed in every showoff move he did. He failed to break the board on his first try. And instead of kicking the pen out of a motionless student's mouth he kicked the student in the side of the head. Etc, etc. I'm embarrassed to say they suckered me in for about a year before I got my kids into something else (BJJ and Muay Thai). *edit* If you don't know here's how Tiger Rock operates: 1. Registration fee due every year. 2. Monthly fee 3. Belt "tests" happen almost every month and also have a "test" fee. 4. All gi's and equipment must be bought from tiger rock (at a crazy expensive cost). And you have to buy it new, you can't get a hand-me-down from older students. 5. There are multiple belts that must be "earned" for every color (white belt 1, 2, 3, 4, Yellow belt 1, 2, etc etc etc) and you must pay the "test" fee for each one. They have tournaments. But only for tiger rock. Now that I've been in a professional gym with actual mma amateur/professional fighters the scales have fallen from my eyes and I realize what a sketchy organization they are. Also, you could absolutely pay your way for your kid having a black belt there (multiple smug parents who's kids had black belts). spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Jan 12, 2019 |
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Jan 12, 2019 05:19
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spacetoaster posted:Tiger Rock is a horror show in my area (talking about mall karate). I still  whenever I see something like this.I can tell whenever parents have moved their kids from something like this to Judo because they're like "Wait, you mean we can just use the gi we have?" "No testing fees?" etc - just amazed that we're not sucking every loving penny out of them at every opportunity.
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Jan 12, 2019 05:32
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CommonShore posted:I still So here's how a tiger rock class goes: First, the kids are all there with their parents hovering and do not interact before, or even during, class. It's very obvious that none of them are very comfortable with physical stuff, or social (not their fault). 45 minutes total time. 15 minutes warmup stretches and jumping jacks. Another 10 of some motivational quotes of the day about being super martial artsy. 20 minutes of choreographed dancing moves that look like punches and kicks. Occasionally kids would hit pads (60$ you must have your own), or those plastic boards you can break over and over again (80$). There was very light sparring in full padded red-man suits (buy your own from tiger rock!). Anyway, it was painfully obvious it was just a franchise opportunity to trick parent into believing they were bully proofing their kids and that their kids were learning toughness and whatever. I just couldn't pay for it anymore. I was fed up and so I saw there was an MMA gym up the road that offered a free week. I walked in with my son (who was 7), and my daughter (who was 10). It was loud, there were people fighting in various parts of the gym (and obviously actually training to fight), and the kids were all over on the kids mat waiting on class to begin. And the kids weren't just quietly waiting for the instructor to show up. They, completely on their own, were rolling, practicing various escapes, doing actual fighting moves with smiles on their faces. And they were having fun, but you could tell they knew what the gently caress they were doing. I was sold. We canceled Tiger Rock and my kids have been there for years now. And it's 100$ a month and that's it. You buy your equipment off amazon for the best price you can find.
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Jan 12, 2019 05:50
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I haven't forgotten about this thread and I'll try to do a bigger reply to some questions tomorrow (had a evening with Mrs. Slidebite which is rare), but the biggest thing to remember with TKD is that there are 2 main "types" - WTF and ITF. From what I understand "Traditional" is the style which originally came out of what is now North Korea and part sort of morphed into ITF whereas WTF came a little later out of South Korea, but by no means am I saying that with authority. The TKD I practice is most similar to ITF style and if you walk into our class, you'll find most spar hands up, guarding, and we have just as many punches/strikes as kicks. Learning to keep your guard up especially when kicking is drilled into us from white belt. Some senior members might not guard much or might keep an arm out when sparring, but that will be their personal style that they are comfortable with and that's not promoted by any means, but if it works for them and they are successful at it, whatever floats their boat. I really don't know much about WTF since that's not my discipline but from what I've seen its more arms down, kicking focused and that is what you see in the Olympics. They are also the ones that generally wear the torso protectors when sparring. I think that might be what some of you have in mind when you think "Taekwondo" if you're not overly familiar with it. I don't even know if they punch at all. While I think we do have some specific kicks in common, those crazy wild kicks that seem to be mostly for demonstration are almost certainly WTF, although ITF has a few fancy kicks too but those are generally only brought out for blackbelt testing as a requisite. You will not see an 8 year old "black belt" at our club. We have a "kids fit" class for the littlest ones, I think 5-8, and then we have a "kids" TKD class for 8+. Generally speaking, if the kid is in his teens, mature enough and a color belt, they can go into an adult class with permission. I *think* we will award a junior blackbelt as young as 15 but they retest for a full adult belt. For a 15 year old to get their junior BB, they probably started as early as they could so probably 6-7 years in by then. But even if a junior belt was awarded, its deserved. They are not given away. I spar with a few teenaged black stripes from time to time and they are drat good by then. We have several members that came to us with MMA or general kickboxing experience.
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Jan 12, 2019 08:02
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OK, small effortpost. And when I mention TKD here I am talking about my type, not WTF. As I mentioned previously I know very little about that and don't want to falsely represent that I know anything about it. CommonShore posted:And I've always been a bit If an attacker is throwing a kick and the defender does a fast powerful block to it, there is a good chance that block is hitting the top/side of the foot, right where the pad is so the pad is beneficial to both. The foot protector isn't going to do much to deaden the blow where the kick driving in the heel so that's all going to be distance/power judgement for the attacker and up to the defender for the rest. If the attacker is doing a a kick where they would drive the ball of the foot into a target like a turning kick (and forgive me if we call these kicks something different than what other arts call them) we'll typically flat foot those and contact those with the top of our foot and we're not throwing those strong. If we kick those with any amount of power we're not trying to contact with the ball as those are easily a rib breaker as they generally target the side of the torso (depending on the stance of attacker/defender of course). That's how my rib broke in the spring (I moved into it) and I broke a rib of a partner few weeks back. Alternatively, for a kick that is delivered with the back of your heel like an axe kick or a hook kick you've got padding around the back of your foot. That won't make a big difference if its a strong kick and fully connects though. It's best to get out of the way or block a piece of it. Most of the foot "injuries" that happen to attackers are typically from bad form like leading a kick with toes. Basically a heck of a stubbed toe(s). Nothing ever serious as far as I know, but it smarts. willie_dee posted:Do you feel this prepares you in any way to defend yourself against someone trying to punch your head off? I can only speak for me, but in my case I think it would help outside class but I had no formal training of any sort before and of course that's going to depend greatly on the skill of the attacker. Like anything else, a skilled fighter is going to probably get the best of someone who is not so skilled, regardless of their discipline. In other news, water is wet, more at 11. Not exactly an epiphany  I'm not in it specifically to "learn to fight;" more for the fitness angle. However we train for fast, effective attacks and judging the opponents vulnerable side on the fly. Once you get to senior belts sparring drills are attack, attack, attack with speed and multiple techniques. Multiple kicks without bringing your foot down are the norm. Multiple punches. You would easily startle and overwhelm someone not ready for it. We also train in retreating attacks so if someone is coming forward and attacking, you can still effectively attack moving backwards and try to point. Not that this is unique to TKD by any stretch of the imagination. Probably no surprise, but there are things that TKD does not really focus on, like holds, throws, grappling, etc. Once you get into blue belt and up, there are some take downs we learn, but that's not what TKD specializes in. We do however have some defensive moves for removing ourselves from standing holds. I believe as you pass 2nd dan (or 3rd?) you will typically specialize and I suspect that's where you might be able to go more down that road, but it's not done to a major extent in the color belts and I can't speak to it. That said, my primary instructor is a 4th dan middle aged woman (who is in absolutely incredible shape) and self defense is a specialty of hers and she throws some self defense, non-TKD stuff in classes from time to time. spacetoaster posted:We call this sparring. I have some vids of tournaments our team has been in but I am not sure if they are meant to be public or not. I'll see if I can find something the club put out on youtube if anyone cares? slidebite fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jan 12, 2019 |
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Jan 12, 2019 18:37
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by the foot protector thing, as I've really learned to kick with the shin and whenever I kick with my foot I'm like "gently caress my foot hurts and I think I hosed up my ankle." Do they help much? How do you guys make contact with a target?
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I did TKD as a kid and I wouldn’t say it was an absolute waste of time but I’d say my time could have been better spent, had there been other options available.
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Jan 13, 2019 18:59
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So I did my Muay Thai class a few days ago. It was pretty good. It consisted of doing warms and working on form when striking and kicking. I was a bit shocked to see that there was no "ring" in the gym as I assumed people would spare there. Not sure if that's a red flag or not.
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Jan 13, 2019 21:37
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I did my Muay Thai class a few days ago. It was pretty good. It consisted of doing warms and working on form when striking and kicking. I was a bit shocked to see that there was no "ring" in the gym as I assumed people would spare there. Not sure if that's a red flag or not. How is the sparring done? Often light sparring is done wherever there's space. Its harder to do heavy sparring or dedicated training when you might bump into people fighting 4 feet to your left.
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Jan 14, 2019 00:12
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spacetoaster posted:I do muay thai and the most fun I have is sparring with the tai kwon doe people when they come by the gym a couple of days out of the month. Whenever I've sparred with TKD folks in a kickboxing/throws allowed ruleset, they excel in landing when contact is light. They have excellent distance and speed with their kicks. A few had their hands down but I coudn't easily punch over their kick range and general mobility. All this naturally aligns with the ruleset. If the intensity rises, they do even better with sidekicks and spin kicks but can have problem getting jammed or pressured. It's where being in a ring helps, if you can herd them into a corner.
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Jan 14, 2019 03:51
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I had no idea that competitive kyudo was actually a thing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQqeV1TzfLo
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Jan 14, 2019 09:46
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I wonder if they only get one shot for the whole competition, or if they go in rounds. Kyudo (and archery in general) looks really enjoyable to me.
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Jan 15, 2019 00:45
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Cephas posted:I wonder if they only get one shot for the whole competition, or if they go in rounds. Kyudo (and archery in general) looks really enjoyable to me. Archery is fun, like guns but cheaper and with fewer insane weirdos. At least a wider and generally nicer variety of weirdos anyway
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Jan 15, 2019 05:39
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I was surprised that I was shooting arrows within 15min of showing up to my first class. With lower draw weight, you can experiment and make some mistakes with your form without hurting yourself.
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Jan 15, 2019 05:42
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I did my Muay Thai class a few days ago. It was pretty good. It consisted of doing warms and working on form when striking and kicking. I was a bit shocked to see that there was no "ring" in the gym as I assumed people would spare there. Not sure if that's a red flag or not. Where I train there's no ring and we have people competing and some champions training there. Maybe they do some training elsewhere as well but I'd say if it seems like a cool place you should be fine.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:53
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kimbo305 posted:Whenever I've sparred with TKD folks in a kickboxing/throws allowed ruleset, they excel in landing when contact is light. They have excellent distance and speed with their kicks. A few had their hands down but I coudn't easily punch over their kick range and general mobility. All this naturally aligns with the ruleset. Accurate Did tkd as a youth and stepped away from bjj for about a year to try boxing and muay thai. This was me: good range on my jabs and kicks - really really struggled with pressure. Particularly in boxing where I couldn't teep or fight from a clinch. The funny part was that obviously after years of bjj I was pretty comfortable in the clinch - especially compared to the other noobs. So all my muay thai sparring matches I would either try to pick people apart from across the room or we would basically wrestle . If forced to fight in the pocket - I would typically hyper ventilate and wilt in under 2 minutes.
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Jan 15, 2019 20:49
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Claeaus posted:Where I train there's no ring and we have people competing and some champions training there. Maybe they do some training elsewhere as well but I'd say if it seems like a cool place you should be fine. Thanks. I'll still ask dude about sparring methods before I sign up just in case.
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Jan 17, 2019 18:26
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punk rebel ecks posted:Thanks. I'll still ask dude about sparring methods before I sign up just in case. Ask if you can come observe a sparring class.
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Jan 17, 2019 19:14
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kimbo305 posted:Ask if you can come observe a sparring class. Great idea. I was a bit worried of this would seem disrespectful. I'm not sure what the unwritten rules are for martial arts culture and the likes.
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Jan 17, 2019 21:12
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punk rebel ecks posted:Great idea. I was a bit worried of this would seem disrespectful. I'm not sure what the unwritten rules are for martial arts culture and the likes. There's two reasons a gym wouldn't let you do so, both bad: - they don't want you to realize their instruction (and accordingly resulting student sparring performance) is bullshit - the organization is designed to milk every dollar out of you and therefore they're giving away a $20 day pass to let you see sparring
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Jan 17, 2019 21:19
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A good school should not only let you watch, they should encourage it. Same thing with trying it before you actually sign up although they will probably have you sign a waiver.
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Jan 19, 2019 05:12
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So I saw the sparring. It turns out that Count Roland is right that all people spar on the mat area where people are 4 feet to their left. It's also "invitational only" so only people experienced enough can participate. I'm not sure if so many people sparring close to one another is a red flag or not. I spoke with the guy about price. It's $159 a month for two classes per week and be able to attend Open Gym. It's $189 per month to go to any class whenever (I think they have BJJ there as well). I don't have any relativity on this pricing so I'm not sure if this is average or not.
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Jan 19, 2019 07:37
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No, that pricing is extremely high for extremely limited and extremely lovely tutoring. Avoid.
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Jan 19, 2019 09:18
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I saw the sparring. It turns out that Count Roland is right that all people spar on the mat area where people are 4 feet to their left. It's also "invitational only" so only people experienced enough can participate. I'm not sure if so many people sparring close to one another is a red flag or not. Sparring close together isn't a big deal, unless people are actually hitting/rolling over each other. That pricing though. My gym is 125 a month for unlimited access to everything and multiple classes 7 days a week.
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Jan 19, 2019 14:11
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189/mo would be considered cheap for unlimited MT & BJJ classes where I am (NYC)
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Jan 19, 2019 14:31
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I saw the sparring. It turns out that Count Roland is right that all people spar on the mat area where people are 4 feet to their left. It's also "invitational only" so only people experienced enough can participate. I'm not sure if so many people sparring close to one another is a red flag or not. Echoing some posts above that the closeness of sparring is fine. The price is high though depending on where you live, and I generally don't recommend places that have any price point where you can only come a certain amount of times per week. Good schools want their best students there every day possible, and they want their "two days per week" students to have the option to start coming in more often when they get the itch without any kind of price barrier in their way.
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Jan 19, 2019 18:35
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Great points in this thread. The place has high reviews, but then again so does almost every other gym. Would it be okay if I posted places that I would consider trying out instead or will you guys get mad at me spaming?
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Jan 19, 2019 18:54
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punk rebel ecks posted:Great points in this thread. The place has high reviews, but then again so does almost every other gym. I think posting them is fine, but you could also just go and try them. Seeing a variety of different schools will give you a better perspective on the matter.
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Jan 19, 2019 18:58
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Boy, that seems high. My TKD dues are $60  per month for as many classes I want to attend in any of our associated schools (4 within 30 minute drive perimeter). But I guess the $$ depends on the market in your area 
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Jan 19, 2019 19:00
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Count Roland posted:I think posting them is fine, but you could also just go and try them. Seeing a variety of different schools will give you a better perspective on the matter. This is good. Anyway some places I'm considering Muay Thai from: http://www.mataleaocs.com/muay-thai-kickboxing-portland-oregon/ https://www.nagathaiboxing.com/schedule/ http://www.sbgi-pdx.com http://www.kmacoregon.com Apparently the place I tried out first is often seen as the defacto one? I just see people always recommending it on reddit, is featured in articles and stuff, and is part of the World Thai Boxing Association. Maybe that's why it's so expensive? punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jan 19, 2019 |
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Jan 19, 2019 19:34
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punk rebel ecks posted:Great points in this thread. The place has high reviews, but then again so does almost every other gym. Link any place you wanna try, including the one you checked out.
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Jan 19, 2019 19:52
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kimbo305 posted:Link any place you wanna try, including the one you checked out. Okay. The above are places I want to try. This is the place I already went to: https://www.pdxmuaythai.com I enjoyed the class and atmosphere of it, and the place seems super legit. But again, the price and the four foot sparring was offputting. I realize that I won't likely be sparring for like 6 months to a year (if not more), but still.
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Jan 19, 2019 20:13
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I have a professor from a couple years back competing at IBJJF in Portugal right now. Anybody have a way to see the results? It's the usual martial arts website, so finding information is a mess.
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Jan 20, 2019 05:04
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punk rebel ecks posted:Okay. The above are places I want to try. Please just go here: http://teamquestmma.net/
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Jan 20, 2019 19:09
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JaySB posted:Please just go here: Seconded. In fact, one of their most famous products is noted goon Matt "The Law" Lindland.
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Jan 20, 2019 19:19
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JaySB posted:Please just go here: While this definitely seems like my jam, it's just a bit too far from me to the point where I'm not sure if I would be able to make it to class on time after work.
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Jan 20, 2019 19:30
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punk rebel ecks posted:Okay. The above are places I want to try. They have a free week. Take advantage of it. Between classes, ask people what they think of the training. I don't like how they don't list the instructors. Grouping the classes together, like "C.S.W./M.M.A. (All Level) 11:30 am - 12:30 pm" makes me wary, in that it doesn't tell me how the classes are separated, if they are. I want to be training with my peers. Though that's not a problem for your right away.
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Jan 20, 2019 20:05
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kimbo305 posted:Grouping the classes together, like "C.S.W./M.M.A. (All Level) 11:30 am - 12:30 pm" makes me wary, in that it doesn't tell me how the classes are separated, if they are. CSW is Eric Paulsons name for his branded MMA curriculum/affiliation, I feel that they just do the CSW/MMA as a way to tell people that the MMA class(CSW) is at this time for people who don't know.
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Jan 20, 2019 20:13
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kimbo305 posted:They have a free week. Take advantage of it. Between classes, ask people what they think of the training. I apologize that I likely didn't explain myself well enough. I already did the free week with this place. I'm currently going to take a free week at other places (the other facilities I linked to). I appreciate your comment though.
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Jan 20, 2019 20:14
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Defenestrategy posted:CSW is Eric Paulsons name for his branded MMA curriculum/affiliation, I feel that they just do the CSW/MMA as a way to tell people that the MMA class(CSW) is at this time for people who don't know. That's not the part I had problems with. It was "All Level" in the same time slot, instead of explicit slots with named instructors for each level. Worst case, it could be one instructor who's leading all students.
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Jan 20, 2019 20:29
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