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Go back in time to 1937 or so, telling BuOrd that the Mk 14 generally, and the Mk 6 exploder specifically were complete poo poo.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:17
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Nukes not being developed in WW2 is interesting, because would we have the taboos against their use and perceived seriousness on their use if they hadn't (been see to) end WW2? Because they'd be developed eventually. I think the perceived seriousness about nuclear weapons emerged only a while after WWII. But the postwar effects would certainly be complicated, we might have seen them used in Korea. EDIT: But I mean there not being any urgency to do the Manhattan project means you save an expenditure equivalent to 1/3 the US spending on tanks, so it's pretty significant, and then you add in stuff like not losing the Norwegian resistance on operations to attack heavy water programs. I think a lot of 'focus on this thing strategically' type things would realistically have been (partially) countered eventually if the allies really focused on it. Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 18:19
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zoux posted:Seriously? Talk about the iron law of institutions The level of dysfunction in Imperial Japan is the kind of thing people would boo at the Galactic Empire doing because that's just too batshit and unrealistically stupid.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:22
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the Kwantung Army is wild
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Jan 15, 2019 18:23
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Cythereal posted:The level of dysfunction in Imperial Japan is the kind of thing people would boo at the Galactic Empire doing because that's just too batshit and unrealistically stupid. yeah, truth is always stranger than fiction
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Jan 15, 2019 18:26
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MrYenko posted:Go back in time to 1937 or so, telling BuOrd that the Mk 14 generally, and the Mk 6 exploder specifically were complete poo poo. They would nod their heads and smile, wait for you to leave and then do nothing about it.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:29
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Hogge Wild posted:yeah, truth is always stranger than fiction It's why I doubt there will ever be a movie about Taffy 3. An incredible bit of military history and courage that's just too drat bizarre for Hollywood to contemplate.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:30
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I remember watching Breach, based on the Robert Hanssen affair, and afterwards I thought it was pretty good but they obviously put in a bunch of Hollywood esque action and suspense set pieces. So when I checked to find out what actually happened it was actually dead on with the movie.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:32
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MrYenko posted:Go back in time to 1937 or so, telling BuOrd that the Mk 14 generally, and the Mk 6 exploder specifically were complete poo poo. Yeah they wouldn't do poo poo about this. You need to find someone in this timeline that knows what you can offer and is smart enough to help facilitate that. A prominent scientist is your best bet. Feynman is my go to in this situation.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:36
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I think an addendum needs to be added to this time travel experiment: The person/people you're warning is going to 100% believe you. Otherwise most of us are going to be ignored, arrested, or shot.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:43
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All of these ideas are things the Allies already knew. In 1942 you tell the US/UK that they're going to win the war, but everything in Europe not occupied by Western forces is going to get occupied by the Red Army and turned into a new Russian Empire that you will spend the next 40 years squaring off against. You tell them to tune down their help to Russia, to take seriously Churchill's ideas about attacking the 'soft underbelly' through the Mediterranean, and that regardless of what happens in the tripartite conferences they are going to have to race for Europe when the the Axis start collapsing. PS. Stalin knows about the bomb.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:46
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Alchenar posted:All of these ideas are things the Allies already knew. This sounds like a way to make things a lot worse.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:48
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really begs the question who was worse nazis or communists (trick question: the answer is the british empire)
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Jan 15, 2019 18:49
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Comrade Koba posted:In order not to further derail the Milhist thread, we have an entire other thread about religion, it is where you post if you want to discuss religion online without assholes HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 18:50
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I know I'm late to this but I finally got around to seeing Fury, which was great, but what exactly was wrong with it? I feel like they would have had more artillery and air support in 1945 but other than that, it doesn't seem that crazy outside of the end.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:50
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I know I'm late to this but I finally got around to seeing Fury, which was great, but what exactly was wrong with it? I feel like they would have had more artillery and air support in 1945 but other than that, it doesn't seem that crazy outside of the end. The 76mm on the Easy Eights the main characters use can penetrate a Tiger frontally at 700m.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:56
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I know I'm late to this but I finally got around to seeing Fury, which was great, but what exactly was wrong with it? Link to an article with a WWII tanker's take on the movie. Another similar article. Content warning: Mention of Tank Destroyers.
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Jan 15, 2019 19:04
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Fangz posted:The 76mm on the Easy Eights the main characters use can penetrate a Tiger frontally at 700m. that and the entire last battle was sorta kinda unrealistic.
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Jan 15, 2019 19:05
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khwarezm posted:I've seen the opposite plenty of times but never that.
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Jan 15, 2019 19:07
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HEY GUNS posted:i'm thinking about a guy i knew from ACW reenactment loonnng ago who went from Ayn Rand atheist to fundamentalist Christian to Amway believer. One year in each belief system. Great dude but what was up with THAT? Some people are just looking for something to believe in.
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Jan 15, 2019 19:08
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zoux posted:Additionally, on your trip throughout history, you decide to help all kinds of sides. What war would've turned out the most differently had one side or another known one simple fact beforehand? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 19:12
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Cessna posted:Link to an article with a WWII tanker's take on the movie. These are really interesting, thanks for posting them.
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Jan 15, 2019 19:32
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Alchenar posted:All of these ideas are things the Allies already knew. The Soft Underbelly would have made the world better for wargamers because it provides a balkan clusterfuck scenario where basically every ww2 allied power and every axis european except Finland can all duke it out. Free france vs hungarians. Sikhs with T-34 support. GIs and communist yugoslavs vs SS cossacks. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 20:23
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Ice Fist posted:I think an addendum needs to be added to this time travel experiment: The person/people you're warning is going to 100% believe you. Otherwise most of us are going to be ignored, arrested, or shot. If I had that kind of superpower I'd go to Hitler and tell him the Ratte is an awesome idea that will win the war.
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Jan 15, 2019 20:27
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Thread favorite The Wages of Destruction is $2 on Kindle today. Here's hoping it's as good as everyone says. Also, count me in as another guy who really likes Gibson's The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam. I think it's a lot stronger of an argument about why America lost than either quagmire theory or the revisionists.
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Jan 15, 2019 20:41
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Fangz posted:If I had that kind of superpower I'd go to Hitler and tell him the Ratte is an awesome idea that will win the war. Mr Chancellor, if your hand is bigger than your face you have cancer.
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Jan 15, 2019 20:45
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Biffmotron posted:Also, count me in as another guy who really likes Gibson's The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam. I think it's a lot stronger of an argument about why America lost than either quagmire theory or the revisionists. As the resident Vietnam guy, yes, the book is outstanding. It deserves to be a thread-favorite.
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Jan 15, 2019 21:00
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Fangz posted:This sounds like a way to make things a lot worse. Yeah maybe don't mess with our current reality where humanity didn't obliterate itself in a nuclear Holocaust. A word in Lenin or Trotsky's ear around 1920 might have interesting effects, though.
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Jan 15, 2019 21:10
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bring modern medication to wallenstein and tilly, although tilly was old as hell to soldier by the standards of 2018 too i could try to tell them all to drink less, or at least switch to beer, but they wouldn't listen
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Jan 15, 2019 21:12
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Epicurius posted:They did, but Germany had social welfare programs since the 1880s. No doubt, that makes it sad.  I mean, I'm like...actually kinda socialist and lgbt, I do not like nazis, trust me! But I would like to know more about it.
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Jan 15, 2019 21:14
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Nenonen posted:You can have my time machine, go kill Hitler *hitler-einstein-handshake.gifv*
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Jan 15, 2019 21:14
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Jobbo_Fett posted:*hitler-einstein-handshake.gifv* https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3HUWUtTZvK4 Mazz fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 21:16
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zoux posted:There's for sure a kill Hitler book where killing Hitler only ushers in a worse guy than him https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_History_(novel)
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Jan 15, 2019 21:18
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Fangz posted:and then you add in stuff like not losing the Norwegian resistance on operations to attack heavy water programs. The Vemrok raid was an unbridled success accomplished with no casualties, and Milorg and XU remained strong throughout the war, what are you talking about?
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Jan 15, 2019 21:21
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Alchenar posted:All of these ideas are things the Allies already knew. There's also the other play: tell American strategists that the Soviet Union totally knows about the bomb, and will be able to develop a nuclear weapon within 5 years, and you cannot rely on being the sole nuclear power for any prolonged period of time. Further, bombs will be miniaturized, ICBMs will exist, you will be at risk of nuclear attack. That leaves some interesting options: 1) Reconciliation with the Soviets, attempting to stave off Stalin's paranoia somehow , and trying to avoid a cold war nuclear standoff. This is probably the utilitarian 'best option for humanity as a whole' option, but good luck convincing Congress to fund it. I really wonder what Germany would have wound up looking like if West Germany wasn't built up to serve as a buffer state. 2) Sunday Punch the Soviet Union before they complete the bomb. Despite how horrific this would have been, there were a lot of people that thought this was worth being prepared to do. The pessimist in me suspects that, knowing the Soviets would one day get the bomb, this would be the preferred option, at least by the American military establishment. 3) Do nothing: after all your time traveller tells you that the Soviet Union collapsed without a nuclear apocalypse, so I guess this is plenty attractive. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 21:21
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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HEY GUNS posted:bring modern medication to wallenstein and tilly, although tilly was old as hell to soldier by the standards of 2018 too https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/living-donor-liver-transplant/pyc-20384846 Your time machine has space magic that allows this to be performed without them noticing, but it has to be your liver...
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Jan 15, 2019 21:23
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LatwPIAT posted:The Vemrok raid was an unbridled success accomplished with no casualties, and Milorg and XU remained strong throughout the war, what are you talking about? Hmm, maybe I confused this all with Nazi reprisals after Anthropoid?
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Jan 15, 2019 21:30
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/living-donor-liver-transplant/pyc-20384846
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Jan 15, 2019 21:31
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PittTheElder posted:There's also the other play: tell American strategists that the Soviet Union totally knows about the bomb, and will be able to develop a nuclear weapon within 5 years, and you cannot rely on being the sole nuclear power for any prolonged period of time. Further, bombs will be miniaturized, ICBMs will exist, you will be at risk of nuclear attack. There's also the even worse possibility of option 4), prop up the Nazis. Like this is happening before Casablanca, doing a separate peace with Hitler has not yet been taken off the table. Starting the Cold War *during* WWII is bad. Fangz fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 21:33
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so how do we do 1) and would it have to involve assassinating stalin i'm haunted by the fact that we offered marshall plan aid to the ostblock as well, they just didn't take it
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Jan 15, 2019 21:35
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