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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Eh, we tried to build a local nuclear power plant recently here in my state. The whole project went tits up bankrupt due to corporate malfeasance + the increasingly competitive pricing of solar. You can't run a grid entirely on solar and wind or any other power source that is not entirely under your control regarding if it's running and how much power it's producing. You need power plants that will run in all conditions and can be ramped up and down per demand. Solar and wind can generate power that lets you ramp down your baseload power plants (which are mostly coal/gas/etc) and thereby reduce carbon emissions. But if it's a cloudy, windless, but hot day - your wind and solar plants aren't gonna generate enough power to meet demand. You need a nuclear power plant that can ramp up on demand and then ramp down when wind/solar can provide more of the power. Without nuclear (or much better storage than we have now) the only options for that baseload power are carbon-emitting.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:04
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Chilichimp posted:Not to like... be a pedant, but this picture was taken in the security line/area... it always looks like this. Im not gonna find the tweet but there's video of the line snaking through the entirety of baggage claim on one side. They probably just used a file photo for the tweet there.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:the thing about twitter feuds when you're the more prominent twitter person: I wasn't even aware Joe Lieberman had a twitter account nor knew how to use it up until last week so yeah basically. I wasn't even aware he was even still a thing in Washington to any degree considering he hasn't held an elected office in over 5 years.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:04
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evilweasel posted:natural gas power plants are very cheap (relatively speaking), that's not a big concern. and investors haven't been able to prevent their coal power plants, which cost an order of magnitude more, from getting closed down It's precisely the cheapness of natural gas capacity that's allowing coal plants to close down in the US, as incredibly new natural gas capacity is very close to price-competitive with operating existing coal plants:  Regarding prematurely closing down existing natural gas plants to meet emission targets, until I see otherwise I feel safe suggesting that the investors are likely to win that battle.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:05
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Kale posted:I wasn't even aware Joe Lieberman had a twitter account nor knew how to use it up until last week so yeah basically. I wasn't even aware he was even still a thing in Washington to any degree considering he hasn't held an elected office in over 5 years. He published an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal about her and she responded through Twitter.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:06
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theblackw0lf posted:A carbon tax can totally complement a GND. And a carbon tax is actually looking more politically feasible. Just as a foreword, I'm not attempting to endorse or anti-endorse the idea of a carbon tax here (or any kind of pricing on carbon emissions), I just think we need to consider how policies affect citizens and plan accordingly. One of the problems you can run into with a carbon tax is that it's inherently regressive, in as much as most consumption in the US requires carbon emissions. If you're poor you will spend most of your money on a few small categories: food (agriculture is a large carbon source), electricity/heating, and personal transportation. That plus rent, but its not directly a carbon source like the others are. A tax on the greenhouse gas content of these categories will increase the prices of those parts of the budget, so it will cost poor folks proportionally more than rich folks. So from a socialist's perspective, you could have real objections to a carbon tax on the grounds that it's a regressive. I do see your point though, that it's necessary to change patterns of consumption potentially via a carbon tax. As far as I understand it, the point of a green new deal is to attempt this via new programs instead of phase out of old consumption patterns. So making public transportation easy and comprehensive enough that working class folks will use it instead of cars, distributing better insulation/home electronics, forcing land change via public works projects, forcing renewable power generation via public works projects, etc. I can clearly see how this works for some parts (obviously just building renewable energy for free will do wonders), but I'm unclear on others. Things like necessary land use changes in agriculture and reduction of personal vehicle use (even electric cars should be used less) don't have a direct alternative. The green way to do things is giving up something so I feel like it would be difficult to enforce that without the stick for the carrot.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:06
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cheetah7071 posted:I remember Bernie did in a debate at least. If Hillary did it was in speech I didn't hear but it seems very plausible she did. Bernie had to be dragged into it after black people literally ran him off stage (who could forget the racism after that??) And Hillary.. tried. She endorsed blm but it was pretty milquetoast iirc as the Clinton's and black folks go way back and she already had a lot of black support.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:06
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Nocturtle posted:It's precisely the cheapness of natural gas capacity that's allowing coal plants to close down in the US, as incredibly new natural gas capacity is very close to price-competitive with operating existing coal plants: Now the interesting question is if/when renewables get that cheap, will they start circumventing gas and gas becomes the new coal.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:07
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Skex posted:The problem with your argument is that the motivation behind Brexit is largely the same as what is behind Trump, Isolationism, Nativism, intolerance, racism, xenophobia and bigotry fed by the belief that someone you believe is unworthy benefiting from something you consider yourself to be entitled to. It's the same loving urge motivated by the same fears in both cases. So no it's not really possible to be pro-Brexit without being a bad person. Also, Trump's disapproval rating over here is consistently about 75% or more whenever it's polled. If 52% of our population were irredeemable chuds, I'm fairly sure most or all of them would be in favour of him.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:07
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The Glumslinger posted:https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1085275008505704453 Corsi said something recently about deleting emails to make his slow computer run faster which is just about the funniest thing
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Jan 15, 2019 22:07
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ColdPie posted:That seems like an easily solvable problem though, and we need to be shutting down carbon plants right now. We're out of runway, every day we dither about corruption or wait for solar is another set of disasters that could have been avoided. If the cost of getting a coal plant offline is a couple mill in some corrupt nuclear contractor's pocket, I don't loving care, we're talking WW3 or worse here. Right, but . . . the nuclear plants don't even get built, is the thing https://www.thestate.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/cindi-ross-scoppe/article171486867.html My state just blew 9 billion dollars we don't have in what ended up a failed attempt to build a nuclear plant and we don't even have a nuclear plant to show for it. Meanwhile, bills about solar power are getting debated and blocked: https://www.thestate.com/opinion/op-ed/article197790769.html So just in terms of local law, on the one hand, nuclear has been a giant corporate scam, and net metering laws are blocking widespread adoption of solar. Remove the net metering prohibitions and there would be a LOT more cheap solar in our state, and, like, we'd actually have something to show for it, rather than a failed nuclear boondoggle. I realize that's just my local state and other policies could be better in other places, but the whole experience has soured me dramatically on nuclear power because I don't trust our corporate oligarchy to implement it. Solar seems more practically possible just because it can be distributed and incremental. evilweasel posted:You can't run a grid entirely on solar and wind or any other power source that is not entirely under your control regarding if it's running and how much power it's producing. You need power plants that will run in all conditions and can be ramped up and down per demand. Solar and wind can generate power that lets you ramp down your baseload power plants (which are mostly coal/gas/etc) and thereby reduce carbon emissions. But if it's a cloudy, windless, but hot day - your wind and solar plants aren't gonna generate enough power to meet demand. You need a nuclear power plant that can ramp up on demand and then ramp down when wind/solar can provide more of the power. Ehh, we're coastal, maybe we need tidal/hydro power. All I know is that if nuclear is the local answer then there is no local answer because after this debacle nuclear is deader than Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 22:07
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Nocturtle posted:It's precisely the cheapness of natural gas capacity that's allowing coal plants to close down in the US, as incredibly new natural gas capacity is very close to price-competitive with operating existing coal plants: It depends on how cheap solar gets. If building new solar gets cheaper than operating an existing plant they'll close down the gas plants fast enough. That can be encouraged and speed up through subsidies and taxes.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:08
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Nocturtle posted:It's precisely the cheapness of natural gas capacity that's allowing coal plants to close down in the US, as incredibly new natural gas capacity is very close to price-competitive with operating existing coal plants: There's two things: how expensive the power generated by the plant is (price per kilowatt) and the cost of the plant itself. You're talking about the first. What I'm saying is a new coal plant costs billions of dollars - a new natural gas plant costs ~150m. So it's a lot easier to get a natural gas plant shut down because it didn't cost nearly as much to build in the first place, and those coal plants that cost billions are getting shuttered.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:08
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Radish posted:Scott Walker is really dumb. He's the guy that took the fake phone call from a dude pretending to be one of the Koch brothers to talk about their evil schemes. He also said, in front of a video camera carried by a documentary crew, during mass protests over union busting, that "I'll get to work for you [the Koch brothers, whose representative was right there] as soon as we're done with these people." Citizen Koch is a documentary that made me very very mad, because they didn't even have to do the Michael Moore thing of deceptive editing.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:09
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Whether or not Bernie or Hillary said "Black lives matter," neither one of them made a successful case for being the Black Lives Matter candidate. It was always something they'd talk about when it got brought up, but it wasn't a center post for their campaigns, in my opinion. It was a continual source of disappointment during the primaries. Weirdly, I think the best Hillary got about it was during the debates with Trump, but it wasn't enough.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:09
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https://twitter.com/GarrettHaake/status/1085150488314765313 https://twitter.com/clairecmc/status/1085172205124763648 Someone explain to me how this is a normal thing to tweet. Ague Proof fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 22:10
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I did'n' know i was s'pos ta be lookin' for him, lieutenant Dan
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Jan 15, 2019 22:10
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Besesoth posted:My recollection - and I am only a humble pork soda ad, so I may be pulling this out of my rear end - is that Julian Castro was supposed to go the Obama route: get elected Senator, and spend the next two years in the Senate running a campaign for President. He was patient and Waited His Turn, and then as soon as the 2018 primaries rolled around, Beto! showed up and ate his lunch (and still lost to Ted Cruz). So he might be viable in 2020? But he'd be a lot more viable if he'd actually mounted the Senate campaign he intended to in 2018. Yea Castro is a generic Obama neolib with social awareness type, he's hamstrung mainly by the fact that Beto loving ramjammed him by stealing his senate seat run. It's actually really funny because the Castros were, like, huge players in Texas democratic politics, there's tons of stuff about how their parents are just as insane as Ted's dad where they believe their kids are being groomed to being president and all that jazz and boy did they act like it. Then in comes Beto and wrecks that and still doesn't even loving close the deal, Texas democrats, everyone! Pylons posted:Didn't the 2016 DNC have the Mothers of the Movement? yea and it also had an entire day to We Love Our Cops And Troops so let's call that a wash at best
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Jan 15, 2019 22:10
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Right, but . . . the nuclear plants don't even get built, is the thing but then your only other options for baseload power are natural gas, coal, or what? a solar plant is a replacement for some gas/coal plants - but not all of them. you just can't replace all of your power grid with wind and solar power and have it work. we have not come anywhere close to replacing enough carbon-emitting power plants to start dealing with this problem, but we're going to need to - and nuclear is the only good option when we get there.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:12
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sexpig by night posted:Yea Castro is a generic Obama neolib with social awareness type, he's hamstrung mainly by the fact that Beto loving ramjammed him by stealing his senate seat run. It's actually really funny because the Castros were, like, huge players in Texas democratic politics, there's tons of stuff about how their parents are just as insane as Ted's dad where they believe their kids are being groomed to being president and all that jazz and boy did they act like it. To be fair, that got us Khizr Khan IIRC (which ruled), but I agree that it's probably a wash. Pylons fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 22:13
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Eeyo posted:Just as a foreword, I'm not attempting to endorse or anti-endorse the idea of a carbon tax here (or any kind of pricing on carbon emissions), I just think we need to consider how policies affect citizens and plan accordingly. Carbon Tax into UBI
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Jan 15, 2019 22:14
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https://twitter.com/ComdtUSCG/status/1085246326944788482?s=19 Trups
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Jan 15, 2019 22:14
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evilweasel posted:You can't run a grid entirely on solar and wind or any other power source that is not entirely under your control regarding if it's running and how much power it's producing. You need power plants that will run in all conditions and can be ramped up and down per demand. Solar and wind can generate power that lets you ramp down your baseload power plants (which are mostly coal/gas/etc) and thereby reduce carbon emissions. But if it's a cloudy, windless, but hot day - your wind and solar plants aren't gonna generate enough power to meet demand. You need a nuclear power plant that can ramp up on demand and then ramp down when wind/solar can provide more of the power. Isn't the problem with nuclear the fact that finding a place where people are comfortable with having it is incredibly hard? And that's not even getting started on who wants to be near a nuclear waste site. Also, the cost of building a plant to all the modern safety specifications and running it competently is high enough that capitalists with short term mentalities (i.e., almost every one of them) start balking. A summary of sorts. I'm sure there are better articles out there: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2018/ph241/kuet2/ Anyway, I think nuclear energy is the kind of thing you have to ram down people's throats and even in the US, that's not easy.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:15
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evilweasel posted:but then your only other options for baseload power are natural gas, coal, or what? hey, we go to climate armageddon with the planet we have, not the planet we want I didn't say there were any good options. I just know nuclear is not an option in my state for the forseeable future. It's solar, maybe some hydro or tidal power, or someone finds unobtainium.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:15
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https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1085280744149118976
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Jan 15, 2019 22:15
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Kale posted:I wasn't even aware Joe Lieberman had a twitter account nor knew how to use it up until last week so yeah basically. I wasn't even aware he was even still a thing in Washington to any degree considering he hasn't held an elected office in over 5 years. Another thing to remember in the case of AOC is that she's not just delivering sick burns, she's making arguments that need to be made and that for the most part the Media has blacked out discussions of for decades. The more people that read them and talk about those arguments the less effective the media's information embargo is. Consider the whole marginal taxation debate, It's went from insane crazy socialist talk back to rational sound economic principle that it actually is and we're seeing the mainstream media and even Fox having to talk about it. Even better thanks to the way Twitter works others can weigh in and support her, kind of like how Paul Krugman came along and was all "well these ideas she's promoting that you call crazy are pretty much the positions of actual economists who know what the gently caress they are doing. and all you calling her crazy/stupid/ignorant are in fact the morons in this conversation." Sure you'll have conservative giving their dumb counter arguments but you'll have others dunking on them. This is an extreme contrast from the pre-internet days where a politician would say "we need to increase taxes on the rich" and the discussion panel of idiots would lay into strawmen arguments or ad homs shutting the discussion of the subject down.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:15
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drat, that's dangerously close to an editorial there, Admiral.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:15
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Bicyclops posted:Whether or not Bernie or Hillary said "Black lives matter," neither one of them made a successful case for being the Black Lives Matter candidate. It was always something they'd talk about when it got brought up, but it wasn't a center post for their campaigns, in my opinion. It was a continual source of disappointment during the primaries. Weirdly, I think the best Hillary got about it was during the debates with Trump, but it wasn't enough. The hate against Bernie regarding race has always seemed born of resentment that he ran against Hillary. For instance when Bernie was on Seth Meyers his is quoted as saying: quote:“Yes. I mean, I think we’ve got to work in two ways,” Sanders answered. “Number one, we have got to take on Trump’s attacks against the environment, against women, against Latinos and blacks and people in the gay community, we’ve got to fight back every day on those issues. But equally important, or more important: We have got to focus on bread-and-butter issues that mean so much to ordinary Americans.” People looking for something to be mad at Bernie interpreted this as Bernie was speaking of two separate groups. I've always heard it as though the women, Latinos and blacks are PART of the ordinary Americans. I see no separation there. But Bernie got dragged for this quote so there you go.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:16
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https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1085280748750413824?s=19
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Jan 15, 2019 22:17
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Not paying the army seems like a poor choice for a leader of a country
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Jan 15, 2019 22:17
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Is the the long term sustainability of solar panel materials still an issue?
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Jan 15, 2019 22:17
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Pylons posted:To be fair, that was right after the Dallas shooting and also got us Khizr Khan IIRC (which ruled), but I agree that it's probably a wash. I'd argue the very fact the DNC felt after the Dallas shooting they needed to have some 'actually we love cops' thing is exactly the problem with the DNC And also no it wasn't? It was almost entirely focused around "This fuckin dipshit general who once organized a raid to blow up an Iraqi aspirin factory says Donald Trump is too dangerous to have nukes!" and dumbass "Donald Trump didn't know what the nuclear triad was ergo he's unfit for office due to a lack of military respect" as if the troops weren't gonna flood to Trump like they do for everyone like him.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:17
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I would like to see this point brought up by more politicians Fuckin' A, Castro. Fuckin' A.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:17
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Bicyclops posted:Are you actually asserting that maintaining a social media presence takes up so much time that doing it makes a person unable to
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Jan 15, 2019 22:18
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https://twitter.com/katelinthicum/status/1085283885150232576
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Jan 15, 2019 22:18
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Coredump posted:The hate against Bernie regarding race has always seemed born of resentment that he ran against Hillary. For instance when Bernie was on Seth Meyers his is quoted as saying: I can understand that interpretation, but can you seriously not understand why someone else might not be so hot with that statement besides possible resentment that he ran against Hillary?
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Jan 15, 2019 22:18
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https://twitter.com/dsupervilleap/status/1085283776115150849?s=19
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Jan 15, 2019 22:18
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Coredump posted:The hate against Bernie regarding race has always seemed born of resentment that he ran against Hillary. For instance when Bernie was on Seth Meyers his is quoted as saying: dude even Sanders said he needed help addressing minority issues more and the BLM protest at his event was a sparkpoint that got him to hire people to help im
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Jan 15, 2019 22:19
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:hey, we go to climate armageddon with the planet we have, not the planet we want A better and more feasible option would be orbital solar generation stations with microwave transmission systems to move power around and to the planet.
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Jan 15, 2019 22:19
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Chilichimp posted:Not to like... be a pedant, but this picture was taken in the security line/area... it always looks like this. mango sentinel posted:Im not gonna find the tweet but there's video of the line snaking through the entirety of baggage claim on one side. They probably just used a file photo for the tweet there. Let me help you with that: https://twitter.com/OmarJimenezCNN/status/1084808098240516098 This is the line that feeds into the actual normal security line which, as far as I recall, begins right where the escalator ends.
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