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Mikl posted:even if their authors are terrible. AGC. As much as thats a good ACG... how is Mad Max authoured by Mel Gibson?
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Jan 16, 2019 01:10
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Sandpuppy posted:I haven't seen the movie, but people die when the blindfolds are removed, correct? The conceit of the movie is that there are monsters that are so horrible that once you see them you kill yourself asap, so the blindfolds are what keep people alive, yes. Once more someone who gets paid for this poo poo couldn't be arsed to do the most cursory bit of research on what they're drawing about.
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Jan 16, 2019 01:14
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Technowolf posted:And two of those were racist assholes back in the 1920s, when it wasn't seen as a bad thing. Ehhhhhhhhhhh, I dunno about that. That argument could work for Disney, who wasn't much more ignorant/bigoted/racist than the average person in the 20's (so, kind of a lot), but HP Lovecraft was SUPER racist. Like, he was racist even for the time period. He made other racists of the day feel uncomfortable after talking with him because he was just that racist. I'm a fan of Lovecraftian stories, but I also think it's very important not to downplay just how much of a hateful rear end in a top hat he was. Hbomberguy did a video on Lovecraft and the ways people relate to his stories (usually in way Lovecraft never intended) that I think is really wroth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8u8wZ0WvxI&t=1s Oh, and here's an Overly Sarcastic productions summary of a few of Lovecraft's stories (just because I like OSP): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmdzptbykzI&t=1s Edit: CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:As much as thats a good ACG... how is Mad Max authoured by Mel Gibson? It's not, it was written and directed by George Miller. Stone Toss guy is a dumbass. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jan 16, 2019 |
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Jan 16, 2019 01:26
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:As much as thats a good ACG... how is Mad Max authoured by Mel Gibson? Its not as if Gibson has never actually created a work. Stonetoss could have gone with Braveheart or Apocalypto or Hacksaw Ridge, but no, he picked the 3rd best Mad Max movie. sheep-dodger posted:The conceit of the movie is that there are monsters that are so horrible that once you see them you kill yourself asap, so the blindfolds are what keep people alive, yes. Once more someone who gets paid for this poo poo couldn't be arsed to do the most cursory bit of research on what they're drawing about. And apparently, this is what was causing people to kill themselves.  I mean, sure, I don't LIKE looking at constipated Jeff Sessions, but I doubt I'd kill myself over it. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jan 16, 2019 |
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Jan 16, 2019 01:30
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Technowolf posted:And two of those were racist assholes back in the 1920s, when it wasn't seen as a bad thing. Tip for you: Walt Disney: Hollywood's Dark Prince is a hit piece that's 99% made up from whole cloth. Literally the only thing Eliot gets right is crediting Ub Iwerks for a lot of the early work that Disney took credit for. It's basically the Breitbart of Disney biographies. Just so's you know.
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Jan 16, 2019 01:56
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Mad Max and Mickey Mouse may have been in part the work of antisemites*, but unlike Stonetoss, they weren't made specifically as recruiting tools for the far-right and are not inherently racist. Now, the Cthulhu mythos has some super racist overtones and should probably be avoided, or at least consumed with that in mind *I don't know if the Walt Disney one is actually true but a cursory googling says "probably not"
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Jan 16, 2019 02:06
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betaraywil posted:This is how fascism destroys societies basically. Or at least breaks brains. At least there wasn't a weathervane.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:23
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I mean, Disney made a whole lot of "gently caress THE NAZIS" propaganda. One of his movies is explicitly about getting South American allies to fight the Axis. If he was a Nazi, he hid it behind a lot of self loathing.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:31
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Didn't Lovecraft regret his racism late in his life? I remember seeing something where he was basically "poo poo, if I had been more curious and less afraid of other people, I would have had a lot more cool stuff to read".
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Jan 16, 2019 02:36
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Pakled posted:Mad Max and Mickey Mouse may have been in part the work of antisemites*, but unlike Stonetoss, they weren't made specifically as recruiting tools for the far-right and are not inherently racist. By mythos are you referring to Lovecrafts original works? Because I think properties since have put a lot of distance between the themes and tropes of a Lovecraftian nightmare and Lovecrafts actual seething racial animosity.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:37
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Fulchrum posted:I mean, Disney made a whole lot of "gently caress THE NAZIS" propaganda. One of his movies is explicitly about getting South American allies to fight the Axis. If he was a Nazi, he hid it behind a lot of self loathing. I don't think the rumors about Walt Disney are true, but to be fair, you can be super racist and still fight against the nazis in WW2. Henry Ford was a huge racist and antisemite and his company still made tanks and poo poo for the US military.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:38
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Pakled posted:I don't think the rumors about Walt Disney are true, but to be fair, you can be super racist and still fight against the nazis in WW2. Henry Ford was a huge racist and antisemite and his company still made tanks and poo poo for the US military. Good point, well made.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:38
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Wasn't Lovecraft so racist that just hearing his views managed to get some people to become less racist just because they wanted nothing to do with his insanity?
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Jan 16, 2019 02:40
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Cat Mattress posted:Didn't Lovecraft regret his racism late in his life? I remember seeing something where he was basically "poo poo, if I had been more curious and less afraid of other people, I would have had a lot more cool stuff to read". I mean his wife left him over it.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:48
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Hunt11 posted:Wasn't Lovecraft so racist that just hearing his views managed to get some people to become less racist just because they wanted nothing to do with his insanity? Allegedly this is why you start seeing non-white people look a lot better in Robert Howard’s later stories.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:55
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean his Jewish wife left him over it. Fixed because super lol.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:57
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I'm a big fan of H.P. Lovecraft's work, but I don't think his racism should be understated. Dude was racist as hell, even for the standards of the day, but it's in a way that we don't really see in today's society as much. Rather than being all "blah blah Western Civilization blah blah", he viewed it in more-colonial "scientific" terms of the day, which posited that black, brown, and Asian people were virtually different species than white people, and of course, as you can see by our differing skull structures and so forth, they are far less evolved than us. And he didn't even view all white people as being on the same level - he was one of the types who viewed the Irish as barely above Neanderthals. That's why a lot of work has the horror stem from cross-breeding - to him, learning that you have fish-people in your family tree would be just as horrifying than learning you have [gasp] black people in there!!Cat Mattress posted:Didn't Lovecraft regret his racism late in his life? I remember seeing something where he was basically "poo poo, if I had been more curious and less afraid of other people, I would have had a lot more cool stuff to read". there wolf posted:By mythos are you referring to Lovecrafts original works? Because I think properties since have put a lot of distance between the themes and tropes of a Lovecraftian nightmare and Lovecrafts actual seething racial animosity. Crunch Buttsteak fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Jan 16, 2019 |
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Jan 16, 2019 02:57
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Crunch Buttsteak posted:I'm a big fan of H.P. Lovecraft's work, but I don't think his racism should be understated. Dude was racist as hell, even for the standards of the day, but it's in a way that we don't really see in today's society as much. Rather than being all "blah blah Western Civilization blah blah", he viewed it in more-colonial "scientific" terms of the day, which posited that black, brown, and Asian people were virtually different species than white people, and of course, as you can see by our differing skull structures and so forth, they are far less evolved than us. And he didn't even view all white people as being on the same level - he was one of the types who viewed the Irish as barely above Neanderthals. That's why a lot of work has the horror stem from cross-breeding - to him, learning that you have fish-people in your family tree would be just as horrifying than learning you have [gasp] black people in there!! Or look at Facts in the Case of Arthur Jermyn, where the horror is that a guy's ancestor went to Africa and brought back a wife who was
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Jan 16, 2019 03:09
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People should stop posting Tosspanels or whatever the gently caress it's called because they're just giving Nazis a bigger audience ITT and deplatforming works.
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Jan 16, 2019 03:24
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Technowolf posted:Or look at Facts in the Case of Arthur Jermyn, where the horror is that a guy's ancestor went to Africa and brought back a wife who was Was that completely literal in the book, or did he just not distinguish between the two?
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Jan 16, 2019 03:26
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The Shadow over Innsmouth was about how interracial coupling would destroy the world, The Horror at Red Hook was about how immigration would destroy the world, At the Mountains of Madness was about how slavery was a good idea, he used the n-word to name his cat, he ranted about jewish people, etc. etc.. He was a weird sheltered homeschooled racist who late in life made a statement to the effect of "maybe these immigrants are actually bringing in some interesting architecture" and then he died.Vincent Van Goatse posted:People should stop posting Tosspanels or whatever the gently caress it's called because they're just giving Nazis a bigger audience ITT and deplatforming works. I kinda want to argue that this thread isn't much of a platform and that it's useful to see some of the media these chuds produce and consume but at the same time I wouldn't be sad to never see his smug little poo poo nazi comics again. KillerQueen fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jan 16, 2019 |
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Jan 16, 2019 03:27
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:People should stop posting Tosspanels or whatever the gently caress it's called because they're just giving Nazis a bigger audience ITT and deplatforming works. Is it time for this argument again? I want to say the only time we've ever banned anything was pornography that popped out an exceptionally vile strip right as the year ended making a clean break easy with a new thread. But I guess Deep Hurting stuff was banned for a while too because people kept fighting over it. Is that the goal? Just keep bringing up this argument again and a again and eventually the mods will do what you want just to make the tantrum stop?
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Jan 16, 2019 03:44
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Fulchrum posted:Was that completely literal in the book, or did he just not distinguish between the two? It's literal in the story, but it's a not-so-veiled reference to mixed race marriages/offspring from such marriages. Spoilered if anyone really wants to go and read the details for themselves: Arthur Jermyn eventually gets the coffin of a stuffed ape goddess, which was stolen from a city of white apes in the Belgian Congo. The ape goddess has a necklace with a the family arms on it and bears a striking resemblance to him, so he realizes his 3x great-grandfather made babies with this creature and he's a descendant of it, which makes him go mad and kill himself. Lovecraft's work was so heavily dependent on his crazy, vicious racism transformed into stuff like evil, ancient blood curses revealing themselves or monsters as poorly-disguised racial caricatures that you cannot divorce that context from the art, and Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family is not exception.
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Jan 16, 2019 04:05
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Guys, you don't need to bust out any decoder rings for Lovecraft. He literally wrote this poem: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Creation_of_Niggers You don't actually need to click on it if you don't want to. It's exactly as awful as you think.
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Jan 16, 2019 04:13
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He wants us to stop sharing stuff in a small group and putting together counterarguments, that's what his latest strip is literally about. Goddamn it, learn the playbook.
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Jan 16, 2019 04:15
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Like, the latest strip is "here's what to do if someone says I'm a bigot when you share it with them." He's so loving mad about being called out by us, here, that he made a comic addressing the idea of his work garnering a hostile response from friends and how to deal with it (in a way that will 100% end that friendship, natch). Also he's directly begging people to show other people his work in the comic now, which is a level of pleading I didn't expect but wholeheartedly endorse.
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Jan 16, 2019 04:22
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Note that the problem he's having is that other people are responding to his "good, funny" cartoons by placing them in the context of the views and intentions of their creator. It's exactly the sort of framing and contextualization his ilk can't handle. edit: Also, notice that his response is a tu quoque.
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Jan 16, 2019 04:49
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Mikl posted:"Death of the author" is the theory that posits you should judge a creative work entirely and solely on its own merits, without considering the intention of the author of the work. Stonetoss is Nazi drivel even if you ignore who the author is and his political stance, while the other works featured in this strip have their own merits (and aren't Nazi propaganda) even if their authors are terrible. AGC. Realistically I know Lovecraft is 1000% an allegory for the perfidious and unknowable Celestial driving the pure white race to madness and extinction, but really the idea of crushing cosmic forces far beyond any individual's control that are at the absolute best utterly indifferent to you and more likely actively hate you really works better as a metaphor for capitalism than Jews anyways so I just read it that way instead and it turns good.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:01
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Detective Thompson posted:It's literal in the story, but it's a not-so-veiled reference to mixed race marriages/offspring from such marriages. Spoilered if anyone really wants to go and read the details for themselves: Arthur Jermyn eventually gets the coffin of a stuffed ape goddess, which was stolen from a city of white apes in the Belgian Congo. The ape goddess has a necklace with a the family arms on it and bears a striking resemblance to him, so he realizes his 3x great-grandfather made babies with this creature and he's a descendant of it, which makes him go mad and kill himself. It's fascinating from a historical perspective how everything was coming together to make such a paranoid worldview. In the 20's, you had just had the Great War, in which the Western societies that were supposedly creating a utopia decided to murder each other by the millions for no good reason. In the scientific world, you had the discovery of galaxies outside the Milky Way showing just how much larger the universe was than people had believed. And then there was just Lovecraft's likely mental illness and agoraphobia. All together, it led to a perspective of the world as a cold place where humans didn't matter and hope was a lie, and whatever logical sense you could make of it might be overturned at any moment. Jurgan fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jan 16, 2019 |
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Jan 16, 2019 05:06
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The world is still a cold place where nothing matters and hope is a lie, but we've all been irony poisoned and deal with it by making deep-fried memes instead of writing about how the unknowable Turk is a betentacled 7-dimensional hell-being that will drive you insane from mere proximity.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:11
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This one is driving me crazy. The Rosenbergs were, in fact, engaged in literal espionage, dude. I know he's trying to connect this to the idea of archaic conspiracy theories, but it might help if he didn't include as a "ridiculous" example people widely considered to be actual traitors.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:12
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Warlocktopus posted:This one is driving me crazy. The Rosenbergs were, in fact, engaged in literal espionage, dude. I know he's trying to connect this to the idea of archaic conspiracy theories, but it might help if he didn't include as a "ridiculous" example people widely considered to be actual traitors. Well, you know how it's always projection with Republicans? And how Trump accused Cruz's father of being the Zodiac Killer? ...yeah.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:13
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Crazycryodude posted:Realistically I know Lovecraft is 1000% an allegory for the perfidious and unknowable Celestial driving the pure white race to madness and extinction, but really the idea of crushing cosmic forces far beyond any individual's control that are at the absolute best utterly indifferent to you and more likely actively hate you really works better as a metaphor for capitalism than Jews anyways so I just read it that way instead and it turns good. The story of Cthulhu also works as an excellent metaphor for Global warming: A cult of assholes are trying to awaken Cthulhu. Doing so will destroy the planet and kill all humans including them, but they've decided to do it anyway because they want to feel important. A small group of people (a stand in for wealthy CEOs) considers their pride and personal gratification more important than the survival of all of the rest of humanity, and thus are dead set on dooming us all. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jan 16, 2019 |
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Jan 16, 2019 05:17
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:The story of Cthulhu also works as an excellent metaphor for Global warming: And then you hit it with a boat propeller and it goes away...? The metaphor of the unknowable terrible outsider maps way better to the actual billionaire class than to the symptoms they cause. Humans who support the job creator narrative are worshipping strange and hateful gods, who want nothing to do with them and will destroy them if they make too much noise, and yet the idiots persist. The gods that do bother to notice us hate us and appear in a thousand forms to vex and torture. Our little group is not the first to face them, but our predecessors' example should prove that the idea of making our own god to fight back only ever leads to destruction. The biggest, most powerful thing in existence is a brainless idiot who is kept placated by the cosmic equivalent of jangling keys so he doesn't wake up and end reality. And those gods, like the rich, are far more mortal than you might expect.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:32
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Somfin posted:And then you hit it with a boat propeller and it goes away...? The boat is clearly a metaphor for how things can be done to delay climate change, but it still remains as a constant threat and unless we make fundamental changes to our society it'll eventually return and destroy us all  Somfin posted:The metaphor of the unknowable terrible outsider maps way better to the actual billionaire class than to the symptoms they cause. Humans who support the job creator narrative are worshipping strange and hateful gods, who want nothing to do with them and will destroy them if they make too much noise, and yet the idiots persist. The gods that do bother to notice us hate us and appear in a thousand forms to vex and torture. Our little group is not the first to face them, but our predecessors' example should prove that the idea of making our own god to fight back only ever leads to destruction. The biggest, most powerful thing in existence is a brainless idiot who is kept placated by the cosmic equivalent of jangling keys so he doesn't wake up and end reality. This is a spot on analysis. Also, someone please post that lovecraftian edit of that one Jesus Painting.
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Jan 16, 2019 05:56
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Basically its ironic because racists will probably have their works construed into way different meanings than what they were going for and thats fun and hilarious.
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Jan 16, 2019 06:21
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So long as we all understand that Stonetoss is a Nazi and poo poo and you shouldn't defend him, I'm not gonna ban Stonetoss from this thread.
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Jan 16, 2019 06:52
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What a loving mess of symbols. The path to government shutdown... is blocked by snow... which can only be cleared by... a snowman(?)... wielding the shovel of congress. Without congress being used by something else, we'll never get to enter government shutdown. And it's snowing, so whatever's wielding congress will get larger while also having its goal made more difficult. And it's nice and cozy inside government shutdown. 
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Jan 16, 2019 06:55
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I thought the right hated Pelosi shouldn't this be something for them to celebrate? :P
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Jan 16, 2019 07:03
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