Star Wars: a cool dude in a black cloak and helmet and his name is Star Wars

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Its Coke: Oct 29, 2018

I was thinking today about how the hype cycle for the ST is a lot like it was for the PT. First movie, everybody just wants more Star Wars because it's been so long but we leave vaguely disappointed. Second movie, everyone thinks they've identified the offending elements from the first one and fixed them (Anakin's age and Jar Jar in TPM, excessive pandering and hack director in TFA) but it ends up being even less enjoyable than the first one in spite of a few cool visuals/ideas.

The hype for episode III was that it's the best one of the trilogy and some of the magic is finally back. So if some guy starts saying that to you about IX be skeptical

# ? Jan 16, 2019 00:41

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# ? May 25, 2024 20:18

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Its Coke posted:

The hype for episode III was that it's the best one of the trilogy and some of the magic is finally back. So if some guy starts saying that to you about IX be skeptical

Before it was released, you mean? The hype for Episode III, at least as I remember it, was very heavily based around Darth Vader showing up in the suit.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 00:43

Zoran: Aug 19, 2008; I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Episode 3 is the best one of the series, actually

# ? Jan 16, 2019 00:44

Its Coke: Oct 29, 2018

Wheat Loaf posted:

Before it was released, you mean? The hype for Episode III, at least as I remember it, was very heavily based around Darth Vader showing up in the suit.

I'm not differentiating between pre-release and early release but yeah that was also part of it. I just don't think it could apply to ep IX because they already blew their wad with almost every classic character. And who wants to see a version of Lando who's balding and dick doesn't work

# ? Jan 16, 2019 00:46

No Mods No Masters: Oct 3, 2004

I want to see baron harkonnen lando but the cowards will just have him sitting down in all his scenes instead

# ? Jan 16, 2019 00:48

Its Coke: Oct 29, 2018

The only Star Wars character I give a poo poo about seeing again is TR-8R and I'm actually a little afraid Abrams' nerd pandering sense is so good he'll do it

# ? Jan 16, 2019 00:49

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Episode III had the cleverest trick, i.e. its title. It is called "Revenge of the Sith" but there are no real, actual Sith in it because Palpatine is just pretending to be a Sith. He was tricking everyone and the audience was no exception (unless they were intelligent enough to recognise the deception).

# ? Jan 16, 2019 00:50

Its Coke: Oct 29, 2018

God it'd be tight if TR-8R had an artificial heart put in after he was shot there and you could see it on his new stormtrooper suit. Star Wolf style comeback

# ? Jan 16, 2019 00:56

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 215 days!

General Dog posted:

The sexual tension between them is absolutely present and unsubtle though. Which makes it a bit unfortunate that their first encounter when he interrogates her in TFA plays a little, uhh, rapey. Like, he tries to mind rape her and then she demeans him for his inability to get a mind boner, and that's what kicks off this really intense relationship where she's convinced she can save him.

There's no way that the rape-y subtext wasn't intended. It's not even terribly shocking, since using magic to force (har har) your way into someone's mind is analogous to rape. It's not much more literal than Luke's lightsaber being an erection when he almost kills Ben, though. (The subtext there is that Luke's repressed sexuality manifests itself, as with Leia, as incestuous desire; Luke is a bi vocel).

McSpanky posted:

Where can I rate your ST vs SW fanfic

In our dreams, friend... in our dreams.

Wheat Loaf posted:

I think the Federation is much less protectionist than the Republic, so it is automatically better.

I mean, it isn't protectionist, per se...

# ? Jan 16, 2019 04:10

General Dog: Apr 26, 2008; Everybody's working for the weekend

Hodgepodge posted:

There's no way that the rape-y subtext wasn't intended. It's not even terribly shocking, since using magic to force (har har) your way into someone's mind is analogous to rape.

Yeah I don�t think that subtext is a mistake either, but I�m not sure if anyone fully considered how that scene meshed with where the relationship between the two goes in TLJ.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 06:18

Its Coke: Oct 29, 2018

Hodgepodge posted:

There's no way that the rape-y subtext wasn't intended. It's not even terribly shocking, since using magic to force (har har) your way into someone's mind is analogous to rape. It's not much more literal than Luke's lightsaber being an erection when he almost kills Ben, though. (The subtext there is that Luke's repressed sexuality manifests itself, as with Leia, as incestuous desire; Luke is a bi vocel).

That took a turn

# ? Jan 16, 2019 06:25

DeimosRising: Oct 17, 2005; �Hola SEA!

Wheat Loaf posted:

I think the Federation is much less protectionist than the Republic, so it is automatically better.

This is such a weird gimmick

# ? Jan 16, 2019 06:56

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Wheat Loaf posted:

Episode III had the cleverest trick, i.e. its title. It is called "Revenge of the Sith" but there are no real, actual Sith in it because Palpatine is just pretending to be a Sith. He was tricking everyone and the audience was no exception (unless they were intelligent enough to recognise the deception).

My immediate reaction is to reject this assertion as you pulling it out of your sarlacc, and this reading is not borne out of the movie. But I'll bite.

What makes you think Sheevs is cosplaying as a sith?

# ? Jan 16, 2019 15:35

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

McCloud posted:

My immediate reaction is to reject this assertion as you pulling it out of your sarlacc, and this reading is not borne out of the movie. But I'll bite.

What makes you think Sheevs is cosplaying as a sith?

What have you done?

# ? Jan 16, 2019 15:40

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

thrawn527 posted:

What have you done?

I pulled a Jar Jar and stepped in to the doo doo ofc

# ? Jan 16, 2019 15:44

Preston Waters: May 21, 2010; by VideoGames

This thread is broken and irredeemable.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 18:15

Vintersorg: Mar 3, 2004; President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club

It's trash and serves no purpose. No one loving cares about Star Wars spoilers.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 18:32

Mameluke: Aug 2, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

We should really just post the infrequent "JJ has thrown his friend Greg Grunberg another bone" and "No poo poo, they paper over there only being ten rebels left at the end of TLJ" bits of news in the main thread and probate anybody who complains.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 19:05

Preston Waters: May 21, 2010; by VideoGames

Mameluke posted:

We should really just post the infrequent "JJ has thrown his friend Greg Grunberg another bone" and "No poo poo, they paper over there only being ten rebels left at the end of TLJ" bits of news in the main thread and probate anybody who complains.

Post fake spoilers too so they don't know what the gently caress is going on

# ? Jan 16, 2019 19:35

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

I can't believe Darth Maul's Legs are the ultimate villain of Kenobi: A Star Wars Story

# ? Jan 16, 2019 19:36

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

McCloud posted:

My immediate reaction is to reject this assertion as you pulling it out of your sarlacc, and this reading is not borne out of the movie. But I'll bite.

What makes you think Sheevs is cosplaying as a sith?

I explained it at some length in the main thread but you might have missed it. I shall collate them below.

quote:

It occurred to me earlier that "Darth Plagueis" never existed because Palpatine was bullshitting Anakin the entire time. I am not sure why I have not realised this before; "Darth Plagueis" is a deliberately ridiculous name. Might as well have asked, "Have you ever heard the legend of Darth Verybadguy the Evil?" Maybe it's because it's such an obvious lie that I took it at face value. Likewise, it is more than likely that Palpatine had no master; he discovered that he had the Force and dusted off the trappings of an ancient religion as a kind of burlesque.

It's like how "Darth Sidious" and "Darth Maul" and really all the associated iconography of the Sith shouldn't be taken seriously, because it is all misdirection. It is more likely than not that the entire "sinister overlord cloaked in black" image and the name "Darth Sidious" was just invented wholesale by Palpatine so he could manipulate the Trade Federation. After all, it's not like that was his "true name" and "Palpatine" was his secret identity.

While I otherwise liked the movie, that was probably the main problem I had with TLJ - Luke refers to him as "Darth Sidious" rather than "Palpatine" because the latter is who he always was, which I feel evidences a bit of misunderstanding of this very obvious idea (although in Johnson's defence, it is far from an uncommon one).

quote:

quote:
Palpatine's knowing smirk as he tells Anakin he was killed by his own apprentice seemed a pretty big tell to me that Plagueis was a real guy, and was done in by Palpatine

Nah, he's clearly just amused that Anakin is such a desperate idiot he's even buying this obvious lie.

quote:

That bit where he's like, "Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth... Vader!" In the pause there before he says Vader, he was probably trying to remember all the options he'd brainstormed in the Excel spreadsheet he was working on before Mace Windu interrupted him.

In any event, the whole Sith plan is a pantomime. Obi-Wan says it himself: Palpatine is a politician and not to be trusted. That's why he is dangerous: because he is a politician at heart; not because he is a Sith. If the circumstances had been slightly different, he probably would have managed to convince the Jedi to go along with the whole "Empire" idea and gotten them to keep working for him anyway.

He probably wasn't even a "real" Sith (who have been extinct for a millennium). It's already right there in the movie that the Jedi don't realise Palpatine is taking over the Republic from within because they're preoccupied with all these crises he's manufactured. Well, it's more than likely that Palpatine, rather than being a "real" Sith, was just an ambitious politician who had the Force and knew about the long-extinct Sith, and realised that the Jedi would end up running around chasing after this shadow and not pay attention while he took over the Republic through legal channels if they thought the Sith were around. As such, he adopted all the trappings of the Sith but in (as I said) a kind of burlesque parody of Saturday morning children's supervillainy.

That's the real "Revenge of the Sith" - namely, that there are no and at no point had/have their ever been any "real" Sith in any part of the Star Wars saga. They've been dead and gone for hundreds of years but the Jedi had more their opposition to them a part of their religion, which Palpatine knew and was able to manipulate to his ultimate advantage. There is no underlying "Sith ideology" which informs his ambition to take over: he became a Sith because he had to fight the Jedi, and the Sith are the enemies of the Jedi.

quote:

quote:
Sidious addresses Count Dooku by his Sith name, "Lord Tyrannus" to his face.

Dooku is a turncoat Jedi and Palpatine is playing up to his expectations of the Sith.

Remember his face when Palpatine orders Anakin to kill him: sheer disbelief, because he's only just realised in that moment how far he was taken in.

quote:

The only Force user who has truly achieved self-actualisation is Palpatine, who is neither Jedi nor Sith (although he is wearing the clothes of the latter).

Snoke being one of the Actual For Real Sith and not simply masquerading as one like Palpatine did certainly would have been a lot more interesting than "Snoke is Darth Plagueis!" (which is impossible anyway, since Darth Plagueis never actually existed).

# ? Jan 16, 2019 19:49

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

...

Palpatine literally talks about and uses Sith teachings and practices

Saying he's not a Sith is like saying Rey's a Jedi

# ? Jan 16, 2019 20:09

Preston Waters: May 21, 2010; by VideoGames

Vinylshadow posted:

...

Palpatine literally talks about and uses Sith teachings and practices

Saying he's not a Sith is like saying Rey's a Jedi

Rey is a Jedi. Did you not watch the end of the film?

# ? Jan 16, 2019 20:28

No Mods No Masters: Oct 3, 2004

Rey's even more of a cargo cult jedi than luke and that's saying a lot

# ? Jan 16, 2019 20:32

Ingmar terdman: Jul 24, 2006

Maybe it'll make more sense on screen as opposed to the written page but these script leaks of Kylo lurking in corners of Starkiller II yelling "just try and jack me off" seem a little tonally off

# ? Jan 16, 2019 20:38

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Ingmar terdman posted:

Maybe it'll make more sense on screen as opposed to the written page but these script leaks of Kylo lurking in corners of Starkiller II yelling "just try and jack me off" seem a little tonally off

This will make more sense on screen when the Jizz Wailers make their clearly telegraphed return.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 20:42

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Vinylshadow posted:

Palpatine literally talks about and uses Sith teachings and practices

The only time he ever says anything about the "Sith" is when he has an audience so his truthfulness is deeply suspect.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 20:42

Slutitution: Jun 26, 2018; by Nyc_Tattoo

Ingmar terdman posted:

Maybe it'll make more sense on screen as opposed to the written page but these script leaks of Kylo lurking in corners of Starkiller II yelling "just try and jack me off" seem a little tonally off

wait what

# ? Jan 16, 2019 20:47

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Preston Waters posted:

Rey is a Jedi. Did you not watch the end of the film?

Not a classical Jedi

We'll need to rebrand

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:05

Preston Waters: May 21, 2010; by VideoGames

Vinylshadow posted:

Not a classical Jedi

We'll need to rebrand

The classical jedis were loving retards though

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:10

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

Preston Waters posted:

The classical jedis were loving retards though

That says a lot about Rey's future, doesn't it?

Or is she gonna read THE SACRED TEXTS and then do everything the complete opposite so as not to fall into the same pt they did?

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:20

No Mods No Masters: Oct 3, 2004

Rey will do precisely as well as the next lazy script requires, and precisely as badly as the lazy script after that requires

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:24

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

No Mods No Masters posted:

Rey will do precisely as well as the next lazy script requires, and precisely as badly as the lazy script after that requires

The second half of your sentence is potentially wrong because I'm pretty sure Daisy Ridley's said she's not interested in doing any more Star Wars after IX (at least for a while - I believe she said she might be interested in doing what Ford, Fisher and Hamill did and going back to the role in 30 years' time). :v:

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:27

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Yeah no, I'm not really sold on that, Wheat. Your evidence is very circumstantial, I'm gonna go ahead and say you're wrong.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:31

No Mods No Masters: Oct 3, 2004

Whether or not she's actually in it, I'm sure she will have abdicated/fallen/failed/disappeared as necessary for the jedi to be on the verge of extinction and the off-brand empire to be ascendant in star wars 10

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:38

punishedkissinger: Sep 20, 2017

Wheat Loaf posted:

The second half of your sentence is potentially wrong because I'm pretty sure Daisy Ridley's said she's not interested in doing any more Star Wars after IX (at least for a while - I believe she said she might be interested in doing what Ford, Fisher and Hamill did and going back to the role in 30 years' time).

I know it's a long way down the road but it's difficult for me to imagine any of the current cast mattering at all to whatever star wars movies are being made in thirty years.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:38

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

McCloud posted:

Yeah no, I'm not really sold on that, Wheat. Your evidence is very circumstantial, I'm gonna go ahead and say you're wrong.

Well, I'm not really sure now. It's a couple of years old but here's a news article which reported that she would quit after IX: https://variety.com/2017/film/news/daisy-ridley-star-wars-no-more-after-episode-9-1202627235/

But then here's one from a few days later which says the first report was mistaken:
https://www.slashfilm.com/daisy-ridley-doesnt-want-to-leave-star-wars/

I think it is most likely that the first one is accurate and she does intend to leave, but decided to make the second statement (probably at the request of Lucasfilm, who as we know are very careful about publicity) to avoid dampening pre-release anticipation for TLJ.

# ? Jan 16, 2019 21:39