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Zesty posted:Blood vs Water was the first season I saw since watching All-Stars on it's original run. I've since caught up on a lot of the seasons... but I haven't rewatched Blood vs Water since. I remember really hating Tyson as a player at the time. I disliked him the first two times around but this time I like his attitude better. The way he dealth with the newbies tribe trying to goad him into taking his loved ones place made me like his approach.
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Jan 11, 2019 18:34
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Yeah, I was never really a Tyson fan but my memory/feeling is that he matures by his third time around. He's still kind of an rear end in a top hat but he isn't like milking it or doing it to be a dick like he seemed to be in earlier seasons. Its just his sense of humor.
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Jan 11, 2019 21:54
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there are a couple good tyson moments in BvW and he's definitely more subdued. i kinda forgot just HOW much of an rear end in a top hat he was in tocantins until i watched it again recently.
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Jan 12, 2019 01:24
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Tyson seemed to mellow out and finally get a win, showing he's actually learned from his prior attempts. Contrasting with Russell who never has. Cool season, I think Monica could have won if she'd actually made any of the big moves she chose to not do. Kept teasing like she was and would cry about being a lapdog but then would fall in line inevitably. Now it's 28, off to a weird start. Some doofy poker player tries to force the tribe to not scheme naturally and does that dumbass poo poo where you tell someone to their face they're going -- she pours the rice in the fire. Plus she's scrublord 5000 at challenges and camp anyway. The poker donger makes such an rear end of himself at tribal he actively forces people to change their votes mid-tribal. Like, his plan to do "open forum" instead of natural conversation was dumb enough, but if he'd just not opened his stupid mouth so much in tribal it still could have worked in his favour. Now the tribe is in steady decline to extinction status since they kept the rice-burner loser. Brain tribe sucks major rear end.
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Jan 14, 2019 04:35
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You are in for a treat.
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Jan 14, 2019 04:42
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Cagayan is beautiful disaster poetry.
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Jan 14, 2019 04:44
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I was like halfway through reading that paragraph reading "doofy poker player" and thinking he was describing Jean Robert and Courtney. Then I realize "No, that's not Season 28. Let me look up which season that was." Oh, Garrett and the Brains. LOL. Enjoy.
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Jan 14, 2019 04:49
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Spergatory posted:Cagayan is beautiful disaster poetry. I love that the core premise kinds of leaves one entire tribe out of the theme, challengewise. Puzzles for the "brain" aspect, physical challenge stuff for the Brawn and... what for Beauty? What kind of challenge could be devised where brawn/brains are not so helpful but being hot is. Plus, part of "beauty" for a dude is just being fit, which is basically just brawn.
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Jan 14, 2019 05:35
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Khanstant posted:Phillip should have said his whole thing was an act, but I guess he's a genuinely deluded weirdo I actually disagree, as much as I don't like watching him on television. He did a podcast with Rob C about halfway through South Pacific, correctly called the winner and was generally cool and articulate.
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Jan 14, 2019 12:18
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Khanstant posted:I love that the core premise kinds of leaves one entire tribe out of the theme, challengewise. Puzzles for the "brain" aspect, physical challenge stuff for the Brawn and... what for Beauty? What kind of challenge could be devised where brawn/brains are not so helpful but being hot is. Plus, part of "beauty" for a dude is just being fit, which is basically just brawn. Theoretically, Beauty represents being good at the most important part of the game; having other people like you.
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Jan 14, 2019 14:48
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Propaganda Machine posted:I actually disagree, as much as I don't like watching him on television. He did a podcast with Rob C about halfway through South Pacific, correctly called the winner and was generally cool and articulate. Not sure how impressive that is. Wasn't South Pacific one of those seasons that was widely spoiled?
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Jan 14, 2019 15:13
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garthoneeye posted:Theoretically, Beauty represents being good at the most important part of the game; having other people like you. That's fair. My guts are making me root for Morgan because of monkeybrains.
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Jan 14, 2019 22:37
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Propaganda Machine posted:I actually disagree, as much as I don't like watching him on television. He did a podcast with Rob C about halfway through South Pacific, correctly called the winner and was generally cool and articulate. I don't think I ever thought Phillip was stupid, per se. I think he's just got a huge ego and a deluded sense of self. Like, I think that Spies-R-Us nonsense was probably some kind of strategy to try and disarm people and get them to trust him, similar in theory to Nick's whole alliance strategy. But Phillip's natural state is to be completely over the top and ridiculous about it and then he lacks the self awareness to recognize that he's pissing people off and making a clown of himself. None of that theoretically keeps him from being able to see if someone else is playing a good game independent of him.
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Jan 14, 2019 23:24
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That's kind of my point, though I made it poorly. I think he was just going over the top to be a television character; it's a decent strategy for casting, anyway. But TV Phillip and podcast Phillip were just vastly different people, regardless of whether or not he was spoiled (but he justified his winner pick well and everything anyway).
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Jan 15, 2019 02:42
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I think like... he turned himself up to 11 for TV, but he doesn't actually realize that he already operates at 11 so he was actually going to 15. That's a clumsy metaphor. I just don't think Phillip really was "putting on an act." He probably kind of thought he was, or at least turning it up and making deliberate choices like the nicknames, but that narcissism and bad readings of people and tendency to lose his poo poo when anyone challenged him were probably all pretty ingrained in him and he just isn't self aware enough to recognize it. But like, pull him out of that and just ask him what he thinks of some other season and he'll be happy to tell you, and it even feeds his ego that you're asking. I mean, I dunno. I'm psycho analyzing a guy I tried to watch as little of as possible. That's not exactly fair. I'm not even sure we're disagreeing. I'm just rambling. 
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Jan 15, 2019 03:18
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What the hell, Lindsey's quit is the dumbest bullshit ever. Like, this somehow seems even worse than faking an injury to get out. She got heated for a moment and then says she has to leave in case she becomes a megabitch? I don't get it man, don't you get progressively more money for each day you stay? She said she needed the million so bad, but couldn't even try to stick it out a few more days?! Hahaha "shame on you lindsey" written in the sand. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 17:04
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A lot doesn't get shown on camera.
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Jan 15, 2019 21:43
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That's a fair point. Alexis just got blindsided, but also I got blindsided because I just wasn't expecting her to go. Also the cryers are interesting, I know deep down I'd cry at some point too but I think I'd mask it with bitterness/anger until I was de-mic'd. Re-caught some hints when I rewinded though, I was spacin. I love how much of this flip talk was a ploy by doucher-cop on the other tribe. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jan 19, 2019 |
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Jan 17, 2019 06:50
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The game really amplifies everything about a personality, whether or not the contestant is putting on a show for the cameras. People can notice themselves getting too heated and too nasty to others, and while a quit sucks and means you're absolutely never playing again, I can respect it if somebody comes to realize what the nature of the game entails and decides to call an Uber back to Nebraska. There's also the simple fact that if you go off the rails and lose your marbles, it WILL be on a very popular national prime time program. I'm continually shocked at hearing Survivor references in the wild; it feels like a bit of a secret shame. But, nope. It's popular. And if you lose it, you'll probably be embarrassed by it.
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Jan 18, 2019 22:09
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Yeah, I was sympathetic to someone who said "You know what? If I stay in this situation I'm gonna do something I regret so I need to pull myself away." Its not ideal or a good thing but there's something to be said about self awareness and restraint. Some people will say Lyndsay should have "sucked it up" and just stayed without losing it. But if she was right that she wouldn't be able to do that, then she made the right decision. I think the Bi quit this season is somewhat similar. It wasn't a medievac and Jeff kind of gave her the "quitter" shame but like, its her life and livelihood and if she decides its more important than Survivor? That's not gonna win you any love with Survivor fans but you gotta do what you gotta do.
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Jan 18, 2019 22:31
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I don't like calling Bi a quit. If your knee is threatening not to be able to support your weight, that's as dangerous as Penner's challenge-induced boo-boo. Speaking of- surviving the elements is one thing--like with the boat medevac this time--but when the injuries are directly related to production, I don't feel great about it. One World notwithstanding. Maybe.
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Jan 19, 2019 01:03
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Yeah, I didn't mean to defame her. I think it was legitimate. I just also thought the show gave it some light "quitter" shade because technically she was choosing to leave as opposed to the medics pulling her like the other guy. My point was even though there's a lot of difference between her and Lyndsay's instances both were cases where they made the personal decision to leave the game because they decided that it could hurt their lives in real ways if they continued. As opposed to like a Colton who just quits because he's losing. To be honest, I've never had a huge hate on for "quitters." I don't celebrate them or anything but like, someone like Purple Kelly. If you can't take it anymore you can't take it anymore. I don't really feel comfortable getting mad that they didn't tolerate more than they felt they could for my entertainment or some vague concept of "the integrity of the game." Except Colton. He's a quitter because the reason for quitting was that he thought he was better than everyone else. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jan 19, 2019 |
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Jan 19, 2019 01:07
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Tony is like a better Russell. I absolutely did not want him to get to the end or to win, but by the time he got there, it was hard to argue he shouldn't win. If Kass was there, I think she should've won, but Woo is goddamn idiot and did the obviously losing move. Good season even if I hate the winner. I'm a bit baffled by how much aggro Kass drew, it didn't seem very deserved. I just saw her Ponderosa too and everyone was needlessly awkward and mean about it. I think she played a really good game and made some good moves, it seems like the butthurt just started to grow on itself over time. STAC Goat posted:To be honest, I've never had a huge hate on for "quitters." I don't celebrate them or anything but like, someone like Purple Kelly. If you can't take it anymore you can't take it anymore. I don't really feel comfortable getting mad that they didn't tolerate more than they felt they could for my entertainment or some vague concept of "the integrity of the game." I think that's a reasonable position, but I personally feel like life is often a series of poo poo you can't take anymore, but you have to take it more, and then you don't win anything and just have more poo poo you can't take to go through again. Then again, it's super easy to say that and it's not like I haven't broken down IRL over less.
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Jan 19, 2019 06:09
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some people quit for legit reasons but kelly and naonka in nicaragua were two whiners that basically fed off of each other's negative energy and, in my opinion, used the other to justify quitting. 'she's doing it so i feel better about doing it' sort of thing. i honestly wonder if they might have stuck it out if the spotlight would have only been on them solely.
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Jan 19, 2019 06:16
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I loving hated Tony at the time, but I rewatched a lot of Cagayan in order to write the OP for Game Changers and his performance floored me the second time around, without the adrenaline of wanting Spencer to pull it out. That FTC was masterful. I think my favorite moment is his response to Trish.
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Jan 19, 2019 06:17
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Yeah, I think my feelings kind of play off that in a "life is a series of taking and dealing with poo poo you can't walk away from without serious consequences so like, if you CAN walk away from a game where you feel yourself getting pushed to your limits for no reason then I can empathize with that." And yeah, if you start playing the game and then decide half way through you hate the game and can't keep playing that's a pain for the people playing or maybe watching. But its just a game so like.. ok, walk away. Just don't expect to be invited to play next weekend. Re: Kass. The impression I always got is that she was just unpleasant to be around. And ultimately if you spend your entire game screwing people over and laughing about it you can't be THAT surprised if they're kind of over you by the time you show up at Ponderosa.
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Jan 19, 2019 06:22
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Propaganda Machine posted:I loving hated Tony at the time, but I rewatched a lot of Cagayan in order to write the OP for Game Changers and his performance floored me the second time around, without the adrenaline of wanting Spencer to pull it out. i kinda felt the same way. at the time i was very frustrated about the super idol, too. and how easily he was able to sell that it worked longer than it did (which is actually a good move, of course). but yeah he's good, and that response was also my favorite moment. like, that's how people need to respond when they try to get guilt tripped by the jury. just like, yes it was worth it i want to win, end of story.
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Jan 19, 2019 06:25
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Propaganda Machine posted:That FTC was masterful. I think my favorite moment is his response to Trish. Yes! I loved that moment, I'm so used to people punking out when forced to answer a yes/no question like that but he answered and answered honestly. You could also tell it hurt him to admit it, he looked real troubled after that question and having to sit with it. STAC Goat posted:Yeah, I think my feelings kind of play off that in a "life is a series of taking and dealing with poo poo you can't walk away from without serious consequences so like, if you CAN walk away from a game where you feel yourself getting pushed to your limits for no reason then I can empathize with that." And yeah, if you start playing the game and then decide half way through you hate the game and can't keep playing that's a pain for the people playing or maybe watching. But its just a game so like.. ok, walk away. Just don't expect to be invited to play next weekend. Hah, life isn't a game and I'd love to walk away sometimes! I think when I get on Survivor it will be hard for me to think of it as "just a game." It's a game in real life and for me would have big repercussions, I like playing games but no game I play ever has a ~1/20 chance to like wash away the next 50 years of debt and put me in a place where I could work at something I give a poo poo about. It does seem like most players can actually afford to see it as just a game and not a gauntlet for salvation. As for Kass, it was more I was struck by the contrast since so many people do get like blindsided or hosed over and poo poo and can still turn around and be like "ah u fucker, u got me but its just a game so w/e." My favourite Kass moments were when she convinced herself that Tony was the perfect goat to take to the end, when I'm screaming at the screen for her someone, anyone, to pull their head out of their asses and vote him off before it's too late. I also loved Spencer's exasperated and totally correct "Kass, Zero chance of winning the game." Definitely one of my more favouriter seasons. Barely started Blood vs Water 2 and I'm a bit worried this one is going to be a dud in comparison. BvW is a dope concept, but so far I'm extremely meh towards everyone. There is one sports douche I look forward to seeing kicked off, but even that's a pretty mild feeling. p.s. Cagayan also ruled because it's the one I got my gf hooked into and she went from being amused that I'm so into this poo poo into becoming amused and invested in it herself. Oh and curiously she was super empathetic to LJ(?) when I barely noticed he even existed and in the reunion show they talked about LJ was such a surprise hit among women which anecdotally checked out. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 07:36
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BvW 2 takes a while to get going but the back half is one of my favourite post-merges ever. Plus it's got the Twinnies!
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Jan 20, 2019 07:56
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the back half of bvw2 paid off because it was a perfect revenge movie finish, where one twinnie murdered everyone that did her twinnie wrong
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Jan 20, 2019 08:43
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Khanstant posted:Hah, life isn't a game and I'd love to walk away sometimes! I think when I get on Survivor it will be hard for me to think of it as "just a game." It's a game in real life and for me would have big repercussions, I like playing games but no game I play ever has a ~1/20 chance to like wash away the next 50 years of debt and put me in a place where I could work at something I give a poo poo about. It does seem like most players can actually afford to see it as just a game and not a gauntlet for salvation. Yeah, I'd have a hard time walking away from the chance for the money as well but different people have different situations, and I am willing to admit I can't begin to imagine what the Survivor experience must be like so I can't fairly hold people to any idea of how I'd deal with it. Khanstant posted:
I mean, obviously different people are gonna react differently. Some people can take a backstabbing in stride as a game move and some people will take the same move as a personal affront. But I think a lot of it comes down to the player making the moves and they way they handle it or their relationships. Most of the players who face very bitter juries usually also had a little too much overt fun playing "dirty" or "abused" relationships they built or just weren't getting along with people anyway. Its just a testament to the social game and the importance of managing people and relationships. So like, some people get screwed but I think Kass just spent the entire game making decisions that gave people reasons to not like her. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 16:58
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It always comes down to whether people personally like you. Always. "Big moves" don't matter as much, but you still should do something. Is Khanstant still watching Cagayan? Tony may not have been extremely likable, but Woo stole food from production which rubbed everyone the wrong way.
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Jan 20, 2019 21:34
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People actually really liked Tony, even if they were a little mad at him at the end. He was just so open and energetic that everyone there felt like they knew him by the end. Woo's mistake wasn't just taking Tony, it was being kind of closed off and quiet and keeping to himself for most of the game. The stealing food incident gave him a bad rep, which he then did nothing to disprove. If he had tried to actively make friends and change perceptions of him, he might well have won on the likability ticket, but he never actually bothered to be particularly likable, so of course he didn't beat Tony.
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Jan 20, 2019 22:06
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Its if someone likes you or respects you. Really the simplest way to put it is "You have to be someone that the people you eliminated WANT to give you a million dollars." Some people like Tony can pull off playing dirty but still having people like them. Some people do it with charm. Some people do it by making the players good about themselves by telling them they were threats and that's why they had to go. Some people build good enough relationships that it doesn't feel like a betrayal. Some people are honest and frank enough that people respect it. It goes different ways but it all comes down to them needing to feel ok voting for you, not to feel some obligation because you beat them. Some people are just likable. Some people like Russell can't get that. Some just feel so entitled and proud that they can't imagine anyone not giving them the win they think they deserve. Some just treat people badly and enjoy playing dirty too obviously. Some build relationships that are TOO emotional so when they betray them they hurt and do damage. Some people just refuse to own their dirty play and make people feel insulted and talked down to. Some people are just assholes. I think Woo lost because even though they liked him well enough he just came off too aloof for them to ever feel like he was really playing the game. Maybe if he was a much more social and loved person he could have won, but I don't think they disliked Tony enough to overcome the game stuff. If he had taken out Tony it would have shown them his head was in it and I think he would have won. If Kass had made it I don't see any way she could have won because she just rubbed too many people the wrong way. In the end Tony managed to find that line where they respected that he played the game hard and still actually liked him even if he did them wrong. There's no math formula to it. Every jury is different. Every winner just finds a way to make it work.
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Jan 20, 2019 22:23
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People didn't "really like" Tony. Cast interviews told of many things that didn't make air because, imagine this, he won the game. Spoilers, Khanstant.
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Jan 20, 2019 22:43
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I'm pretty sore Khan said he finished it and was onto Blood vs Water 2. If not, sorry for all my posts. I think Tony obviously did a lot of poo poo that rubbed people wrong, but it never seemed to get bad enough to be a serious threat. Maybe against a better player than Woo or more liked person than Kass it could have been. Maybe Spencer would have challenged him. But just like Woo wasn't liked enough for it to carry him I don't think Tony was disliked enough for it to bury him (well, obviously it wasn't 'cause he won).
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Jan 20, 2019 22:53
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Yeah Sarah did a lot of pretty mean things that, surprise surprise, never made it to air because, well, they won, and the editors seem to be tiptoeing around the idea of a villainous win for a while now.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:27
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Zesty posted:People didn't "really like" Tony. Cast interviews told of many things that didn't make air because, imagine this, he won the game. Well yeah, but cast interviews also said that Tony was fairly well liked by the jury. Being mad at someone doesn't mean you dislike them. Yes, he did some crazy poo poo, but he was also really energetic and just kind of entertaining to be around. You get bored on Survivor, so whether you want to or not, you're gonna find yourself appreciating people who can help you alleviate that. The only person on the jury who really genuinely disliked Tony was Tasha, and as we learned from the Cambodia post season interviews, she wasn't exactly a basket of roses herself.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:52
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Anyone listen to Allison’s 3 hour interview on RHAP and have the highlights? I could only get as far as “I’ve been watching every season since Millennials vs Gen X” before tuning out.
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Jan 21, 2019 00:16
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The only enlightening part was hearing the BTS machinations for her elimination on day 37—like Angelina's fake idol and why Mike was being bitchy. Rob also seemed generally uninterested and it was awkward hearing her crack up and him courtesy laughing.
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Jan 21, 2019 04:17
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