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My interpretation is that literally everything of note for the Baffles interactions in the end phase has the same timing, that of "during the end phase." In every other case, simultaneous effects are done so that first player does all his in the order of his choosing, then the second player does theirs in any order of their choosing. If we extend that to the baffles timing, then one should be able to choose the order, and the Tavson token-stacking thing works. So does QD shooting after people remove tokens (if the QD player is second). The game state thing doesn't matter in this interpretation. It's probably a good idea to put the rule interpretation out there, whatever you guys decide, because triple Upsilons is a Big Thing right now. You're going to see it.
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Jan 22, 2019 07:22
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I need an idea for a good imp aces list for an upcoming tournament, preferably not Soontir/Whisper/Redline, but I do love me some Soontir.
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Jan 22, 2019 14:21
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ConfusedUs posted:It's probably a good idea to put the rule interpretation out there, whatever you guys decide, because triple Upsilons is a Big Thing right now. You're going to see it. What is this list?
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Jan 22, 2019 15:27
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EnjoiThePureTrip posted:What is this list? Here's a big reddit thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/aiari0/blog_triple_upsilons_and_the_rule_of_four/ There's a blog linked at the top, and at the bottom lots of discussion about how to deal with it. Lists are in the comments, too. There are a couple variations. It's always Dormitz, usually Tavson + cheapest generic. All have Hyperspace tracking data. The goal is to set up at i6 and dive bomb the enemy from across the board on turn 1.
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Jan 22, 2019 15:31
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ConfusedUs posted:There's apparently some reading of the rules--which I am not pretending to have adequately researched or fully understand, mind you--that says all game state effects (like removing tokens) happen first. This isn't necessarily going to solve the debate on this issue, but this isn't a reading of the rules sort of thing. It's actually under the Ability Queue section of the rules reference, game effects occur before card effects. Both Baffles and the rules for removing tokens share the same timing of "During the end phase". Edit: this is the basis of why you can't link or otherwise insert an extra action before you get the stress from a red action. The game effect of "you get a stress token after you take a red action" has to resolve before the "take an extra action after this action" part. So you're stressed before you could resolve the action. As to whether removing tokens counts as a game effect or not...I can't imagine it isn't, but boy is that going to create issues, as we're seeing. Tavson is kind of just cute, though, since you can't dupe actions and it's charge limited. End phase coordinate is pretty awesome. Slab Squatthrust fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 15:49
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Soontir Fel (52) Juke (4) Darth Vader (70) Predictive Shot (4) Fire-Control System (3) Proton Rockets (7) “Duchess” (42) Juke (4) Fifth Brother (12) Total: 198 View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0 or maybe Soontir Fel (52) Juke (4) Stealth Device (8) Darth Vader (70) Predictive Shot (4) Fire-Control System (3) Proton Rockets (7) “Duchess” (42) Juke (4) Proton Bombs (5) Total: 199 View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0 Or maybe: Soontir Fel (52) Outmaneuver (6) Rexler Brath (84) Juke (4) Fire-Control System (3) “Duchess” (42) Juke (4) Proton Bombs (5) Total: 200 View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0 TheCenturion fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 16:17
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I've been flying, and loving, Soontir/Duchess/Rexler. It's my preferred Extended format list. Soontir + Predator Duchess + Predator + Fifth Brother Rexler + Lone Wolf 198 points It gets annihilated by Soontir/Redline/Whisper. I lose about 70% of those. However, I am pretty sure most of the stuff in that list is going up in points and the list won't exist after next week, while mine probably will. I've not encountered any other list I couldn't handle, although Luke/Wedge/Thane all with pTorps is pretty rough. I'll answer a couple of questions ahead of time: Q: Why Lone Wolf instead of Juke on Rexler? A: Proton Torps. The only ship in my list that can take more than one pTorp per round is Rexler. I'll offer him up and let him take most of the torpedoes. He'll lose his shields and then be fine. Without Lone Wolf I was getting into hull, and crits hurt. With it, I rarely get into hull. Q: Isn't that bid too low? A: You're going to have to learn how to fly without moving last on your i5s. Luckily, Soontir cares more about moving last than the other two, and only has to worry about other sixes. Poe is his biggest threat, and I can usually make him spend his actions on repositioning rather than offense. It takes bad luck to lose Soontir to that. For the other two, Rexler honestly DGAF about going first or last. He'll get behind someone eventually. Duchess is a disgusting blocker if she goes first. Both get passive modifications and end up with (the equivalent of) focus/evade every turn anyway. Q: I really want a bigger bid. What should I drop? A: In order: Predator on Duchess, then Predator on Soontir. If that's still not enough for you, fly a different list. ConfusedUs fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 17:03
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The Gate posted:This isn't necessarily going to solve the debate on this issue, but this isn't a reading of the rules sort of thing. It's actually under the Ability Queue section of the rules reference, game effects occur before card effects. Okay cool, thanks for the explanation. Now, do we have a list of what are "game effects" vs what are not? My guess is that "game effect" is anything caused by the core rules, which is different from anything caused by a card. (If so, both QD and Tavson still work since you'd have to remove tokens before triggering baffles)
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Jan 22, 2019 17:12
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I still like flying Whisper/Dutchess/Soontir, but yeah, that's going to be prohibitively expensive after the points changes I think. As mush as I love Whisper with Darth, I think I'm going to have to come up with something else.
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Jan 22, 2019 17:19
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Is Resistance Han the best counter to Triple Upsilons?
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Jan 22, 2019 18:04
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canyonero posted:Is Resistance Han the best counter to Triple Upsilons? Han Yolo and Boba crew are both hard counters. They also hate any list that can lose one or two ships, but still have enough firepower to whittle them down. Not many 3-ship lists can do it, but most four ship lists and pretty much all lists with 5+ can. I don't see it winning any major tournaments, but it'll be a pretty good gatekeeper list to keep jank away. (Which is sad)
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Jan 22, 2019 18:11
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ConfusedUs posted:I've been flying, and loving, Soontir/Duchess/Rexler. It's my preferred Extended format list. Thank you, I'll try that out. I already had it in mind that Rexler is there to basically be the un-ignorable big bad threat, and soak up damage, so that part makes sense to me. I'm going to try this out and possibly fly it in (my very first ever) regional at the end of February.
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Jan 22, 2019 18:38
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ConfusedUs posted:Okay cool, thanks for the explanation. That's my assumption, there's nothing technically listed about it that I'm aware of. On the other hand, if it's *not* the core game rules, we have zero indication of what is a game effect instead. So yeah, RAW I think both of those Baffles tricks work. I doubt that it's intended, though, so we might see an FAQ or errata hopefully. Then again, the double tap at I7 works RAW and is completely abusive and silly, and they approved that instead of just saying "no". So who knows?
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Jan 22, 2019 19:04
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Guys, I need loving help here. My dumbass local league tournament is Saturday,and is hyperspace format. Here are the bonus rules, which gives you extra ballots in the prize draws.quote:List Building Bounties Marked ship is basically you assign it to an enemy ship at the start of game. When that ship dies, it gets a bonus attack at init 0 and stays on the board. For my lovely fiance I gave her a Gold squadron BTL-A4 Y-wing - •Evaan Verlaine - 67 •Evaan Verlaine - Gold Three (36) Expert Handling (2) Ion Cannon Turret (6) Proton Torpedoes (9) R3 Astromech (3) Seismic Charges (3) Veteran Turret Gunner (8) BTL-A4 Y-wing - •“Dutch” Vander - 70 •“Dutch” Vander - Gold Leader (42) Expert Handling (2) Ion Cannon Turret (6) Proton Torpedoes (9) R3 Astromech (3) Veteran Turret Gunner (8) BTL-A4 Y-wing - Gold Squadron Veteran - 62 Gold Squadron Veteran - (34) Expert Handling (2) Ion Cannon Turret (6) Proton Torpedoes (9) R3 Astromech (3) Veteran Turret Gunner (8) Total: 199/200 View in the X-Wing Squad Builder Which gives her at two ballots, plus a good chance of the bomb kill. I'm thinking this T-70 X-wing - Black Squadron Ace - 57 Black Squadron Ace - (50) Heroic (1) R2 Astromech (6) Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0) T-70 X-wing - Black Squadron Ace - 57 Black Squadron Ace - (50) Heroic (1) R2 Astromech (6) Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0) T-70 X-wing - •Poe Dameron - 83 •Poe Dameron - Trigger-Happy Flyboy (68) Heroic (1) R2 Astromech (6) •Black One (2) Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0) Ferrosphere Paint (6) Total: 197/200 Which gives me one ballot?
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Jan 22, 2019 20:32
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What is the canonical R4 Poe build? Just Torps, R4, Black One? I want to do a 2-ship list with either Han or Rey's Falcon.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:41
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Do 4 Scum falcons 
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Jan 22, 2019 20:42
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TheCenturion posted:Thank you, I'll try that out. I already had it in mind that Rexler is there to basically be the un-ignorable big bad threat, and soak up damage, so that part makes sense to me. I'm going to try this out and possibly fly it in (my very first ever) regional at the end of February. I only bait with Rexler if there are unavoidable alpha strikes on the board. If he makes it to the late game at full health, you probably win, if only on points. Very few single ships can put a dent into focus/evade/3 greens. Dodge one arc, soak the other, snipe until they're dead. If they start playing the K-turn game with you, you definitely win. I prefer to bait with Duchess, who can do some really crazy turn-and-run scenarios. Ailerons + turn + barrel roll can get you into all sorts of weird positions.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:44
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canyoneer posted:Do 4 Scum falcons I assume it's tournament legal to use any of the Falcon models as a stand-in for the scum Falcon?
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Jan 22, 2019 21:05
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Finster Dexter posted:I assume it's tournament legal to use any of the Falcon models as a stand-in for the scum Falcon? Technically, no. Each of the models is associated with a specific name (Customized YT-1300 vs Scavenged YT-1300, etc) and is thus considered a completely different ship. I can't imagine anyone throwing a fit, though.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:06
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ConfusedUs posted:I only bait with Rexler if there are unavoidable alpha strikes on the board. If he makes it to the late game at full health, you probably win, if only on points. Very few single ships can put a dent into focus/evade/3 greens. Dodge one arc, soak the other, snipe until they're dead. If they start playing the K-turn game with you, you definitely win. Fair enough. I've never flown a striker, so I better lay hands on one and start practicing.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:15
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Looks like we're going to break the 200 player mark at PHX system open
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Jan 22, 2019 21:16
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TheCenturion posted:Fair enough. I've never flown a striker, so I better lay hands on one and start practicing. The Ailerons will screw you up a fair bit at first, but it’s an even bigger issue for whoever you’re playing against. Ease into them with Duchess, but the true comedy lies with Countdown and Pure Sabaac.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:20
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ConfusedUs posted:Technically, no. Each of the models is associated with a specific name (Customized YT-1300 vs Scavenged YT-1300, etc) and is thus considered a completely different ship. The problem isn't the models, it's getting enough cardboard bases. They aren't in the conversion kits so you actually need to buy 4 scum falcons anyway or at least borrow from friends.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:25
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For playing on my laptop: Vassal or TTS?
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Jan 23, 2019 00:23
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bunnyofdoom posted:For playing on my laptop: Vassal or TTS? Fly Casual, it's a freeware that's not updated often but it's the easiest to use of the three.
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Jan 23, 2019 01:03
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soulfulspinster posted:Fly Casual, it's a freeware that's not updated often but it's the easiest to use of the three. It’s also horrifically buggy (unless it’s improved recently)
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Jan 23, 2019 01:06
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I finally got TTS up and running today for X-Wing. I think I have the basics figured out but holy poo poo are the camera controls garbage.
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Jan 23, 2019 01:18
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Funzo posted:I finally got ... the basic ... garbage.
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Jan 23, 2019 02:33
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Honestly, all ways of playing X-Wing on a PC are hot garbage
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Jan 23, 2019 09:04
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Vassal is the least... hot... of the garbage, for my money. Playing vs AI is never going to be brilliant, and TTS costs money so gently caress that.
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Jan 23, 2019 10:52
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So there's a small tournament coming up at my LGS and I'm thinking of running this. Any criticisms? T-65 X-wing - •Luke Skywalker - 76 •Luke Skywalker - Red Five (62) R4 Astromech (2) Supernatural Reflexes (12) Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0) T-65 X-wing - •Wedge Antilles - 60 •Wedge Antilles - Red Two (52) Outmaneuver (6) R4 Astromech (2) Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0) ARC-170 Starfighter - •Norra Wexley - 64 •Norra Wexley - Gold Nine (55) Proton Torpedoes (9) Total: 200/200
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Jan 23, 2019 14:06
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Floppychop posted:So there's a small tournament coming up at my LGS and I'm thinking of running this. Any criticisms? Um could you tone it down a bit and make the list a little more lovely so I can maybe win a game.
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Jan 23, 2019 17:55
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Floppychop posted:So there's a small tournament coming up at my LGS and I'm thinking of running this. Any criticisms? Outmaneuver is a trap on wedge. Drop both R4s and Outmaneuver, give Wedge a torp. Blow poo poo up.
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Jan 23, 2019 17:57
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Last year's system open in Phoenix was one of the first big showings of Ghost/Fenn, with 2 in the final match. This year I hope it's not crowded with triple upsilons.
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Jan 24, 2019 18:32
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canyoneer posted:Last year's system open in Phoenix was one of the first big showings of Ghost/Fenn, with 2 in the final match. I expect a bunch, and maybe a couple in the cut, where they'll burn out against actual Real Good players.It's not Ghost/Fenn level, thankfully. There is counterplay, and that counterplay, after the literal first round, is mostly to play as fast as possible. Tripsilons wins on time more than anything. But regardless of its final performance, it will wreck the mid tables. It's comparable to quad TLTs in terms of how effective a gatekeeper it will be.
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Jan 24, 2019 18:39
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Also, here's the system open rulings document for Phoenix this weekend. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5zZd3xeZTfPQzZsRDB3QlQ1VmFsOTdpMFpfTVFZZVBVemNj/view?usp=sharing
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Jan 24, 2019 19:12
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Good stuff. Happy to see they made token removal it's own step and clarified the end of turn actions.
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Jan 24, 2019 19:24
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Hmmmm, should I run triple t70s (Poe + 2 black squad aces) or triple t65s (Wedge, Luke, Garven)? (Notes: All have to be same squadron, and hyperspace restrictions)
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Jan 24, 2019 19:25
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canyoneer posted:Also, here's the system open rulings document for Phoenix this weekend. I feel like the timing of circular tokens is wrong; it should be before any other "during the end phase" effects. But if it's clearly stated like this, it's no big deal for me. Have you posted this publicly anywhere that actually matters (lol SA is dead), like FFG forums or reddit, where you can take/answer questions to further clarify things prior to the event?
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Jan 24, 2019 20:20
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ConfusedUs posted:I feel like the timing of circular tokens is wrong; it should be before any other "during the end phase" effects. It got emailed to all the attendees, and most of the sticky ones are based off rulings from PAX.
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Jan 24, 2019 20:30
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