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How well would retaining compound work at gluing a piece of shim stock to a flat surface?
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Jan 22, 2019 07:42
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Thanks for the info guys! So far we've just used it for roundness verification while we get a bigger data set. It'll be interesting once we run into trouble parts to see how they look. fps_bill posted:How well would retaining compound work at gluing a piece of shim stock to a flat surface? How much force will be on it? I've used silicone before with good result, but it depends whats pushing against it.
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Jan 22, 2019 12:20
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Yooper posted:How much force will be on it? I've used silicone before with good result, but it depends whats pushing against it. Not a lot of force, it will be subject to some light impact as the elevator comes back down after lifting a shell to be chambered. I have to shim this part   To sit like this  
fps_bill fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 08:16
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fps_bill posted:Not a lot of force, it will be subject to some light impact as the elevator comes back down after lifting a shell to be chambered. Eh, I'd probably not just silicone a shim. It looks like a Remington Model 11. I'd be curious what's causing it to not go where it's supposed to. A thin, small shim won't glue well, I'd look for something mechanically retained.
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Jan 23, 2019 13:04
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I have my first blacksmithing class today and I'm excited  The instructor told us to wear long-sleeve cotton shirts. I have an old welding shirt/jacket from forever ago, that should be fine right?
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Jan 23, 2019 15:29
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Super Waffle posted:I have my first blacksmithing class today and I'm excited If it's like the welding jackets I've worn it'll be much too heavy imo, you'll overheat very quickly. TBH I wouldn't even wear long sleeves, or at least I'd stick to something you can roll the sleeves up on and work as such comfortably. For blacksmithing apparel (boots/goggles/gloves etc aside), fire resistance is your overwhelming concern, hence the cotton part being important. Burns to your forearms tend to be very small (primarily from hot firescale spalling off forged steel), happen infrequently and are basically part of the blacksmithing package, while substantial/serious burns from hot steel will not be stopped or even appreciably slowed by a thin cotton shirt sleeve. A shirt sleeve would help if you got washed by an oxyfuel torch or other direct flame, I'll admit, but that's the least likely sort of burn to encounter in that environment, and you can and should use welding-specific PPE for those situations. In the rare situations where those kinds of hand/forearm burns are very likely- when you have to hold something beneath the hammered area, which makes a ton of firescale fall directly onto you- I just wear a welder's glove and that's sufficient. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 18:02
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I'd go so far as to say I'd view long sleeves as more of a risk than a protective asset; clothes DO occasionally catch on fire in the forge (it'll probably happen to someone at some point), sleeves are probably the easiest thing to be accidentally set ablaze, and anything on fire that you can't remove from your body very quickly is a serious problem. I'll work in long sleeves but eventually roll them up for both safety and comfort reasons. I've set gloves, aprons, tool handles, fuckin ear defenders on fire before, and none of them were ever a serious risk to my health because I was able to fling all of those away from my person in a second or two. How fast can you wriggle out of a long sleeve shirt if it catches on fire and the quench tub isn't immediately accessible for some reason? (western shirts are great for this b/c the snaps make em near-stripper-tearaway-calibre quick to get off) Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 18:06
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If any of you are interested in nice fire resistant clothing that the local FDs, utility companies, oil industry, etc use, these guys are pretty good: http://tyndaleusa.com/
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Jan 23, 2019 18:09
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I always worked in a fairly thin long-sleeved cotton shirt. It keeps the scale from burning you, cotton has a relatively high combustion temperature (compared to synthetics) and you can roll up your sleeves when you're doing something away from the forge where you just want to cool off more, like filing work or something.
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Jan 23, 2019 18:17
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Yooper posted:Eh, I'd probably not just silicone a shim. It looks like a Remington Model 11. I'd be curious what's causing it to not go where it's supposed to. A thin, small shim won't glue well, I'd look for something mechanically retained. It is a model 11. I put the browning 2pc carrier in it which is pretty common. Dropped right in with no fitting, but it sets low with the bolt forward and perfect with the bolt locked back. So you dont think retaining compound would be enough to hold a piece of shim stock on? I really dont want to silver solder it because idk I'd if the carrier is plated.
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Jan 23, 2019 18:26
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fps_bill posted:It is a model 11. I put the browning 2pc carrier in it which is pretty common. Dropped right in with no fitting, but it sets low with the bolt forward and perfect with the bolt locked back. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem here, but have you considered using the thing that was kinda made for this: bedding compound (epoxy) like Acraglas? I don't mean to hold the shim, I mean to replace it entirely. I use that stuff all the time when I'm building precision guns - from bedding actions into the stock to making rails mount flat (Remington is garbage with their top of receiver milling - it's always off and you end up with a bent rail if you don't bed or shim it somehow).
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Jan 23, 2019 18:37
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I dont know of acraglass would hold up or not. There is some impact albeit not much when the carrier/elevator drops back down to its resting position.  Pretty much I have to put a piece of shim stock here or on the trigger assembly where here hits it to get the elevator to be completely inside the reciever when it's at rest. I'd rather just go the shim route anyway because I could just glue whatever thick ess I need on and file the sides to fit. As opposed to smearing acraglass on then having to fit it. Long story short will loctite 680 work on flat surfaces? fps_bill fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 20:02
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fps_bill posted:I dont know of acraglass would hold up or not. There is some impact albeit not much when the carrier/elevator drops back down to its resting position. I see - yeah, I wouldn't want acraglass anywhere it's getting consistently hit, but in that situation I would consider it as an adhesive. fps_bill posted:Long story short will loctite 680 work on flat surfaces? I don't think so. Isn't 496 the correct stuff for that?
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Jan 23, 2019 20:11
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fps_bill posted:I dont know of acraglass would hold up or not. There is some impact albeit not much when the carrier/elevator drops back down to its resting position. Why not use a bit of soft solder?
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Jan 23, 2019 22:42
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yeah i would soft solder a steel shim on, i'm assuming that part has been tempered/case-hardened but if you're careful with heat management a tin/lead solder joint should be possible without ruining the temper. you can also get some oddball specialized (i e expensive) solders that offer a hard solder/brazing-strength joint at soft-solder temperatures, but given the surface area of the join i wouldn't expect to need more than soft solder if the join is good. iirc the one i have has significant cadmium content which adds an exciting Challenge Element leaving aside heat treatment fuckery and warping (which you can't really do but w/e) a hard soldered or brazed joint would be preferable for both strength and assembly precision reasons; i was taught that a much closer capillary gap is used with these vs soft solder joints, which would help guarantee a more precise end result chaos option: build the area up with hardfacing welding rod and then grind it down to the needed height and then anneal + temper all over again 
Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 00:12
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Unrelated: anyone know of a source of tinplate sheet in, you know, quantities smaller than "by the ton from alibaba". i'm dubious but i nose around every few years because you never know e: huh, i... actually found a small quantity source this time around, albeit one that doesn't ship to canada, hmmph http://tinplategirl.com/tinplate-for-sale/ $3.50/ 9″ x 11-1/2″ sheet (.010" thick) aint bad at all for a ductile, solderable and food-safe/rustproof gently caress-around or craft stock. i've often wanted for accessible sheet stock with those qualities for small sheet metal / repousse projects b/c everything else involves compromises: - plain steel is cheap but fails at all the other points - aluminum is cheap + ductile but work-hardens way too fast, practical soldering is out, and dead soft or commercially-pure sheet stock is v tough to find in small quantities - copper is a treat to work and solders great but $$$$$ and still needs to be hand-tinned for food safeness, also it's a real challenge to find dead soft sheet much thicker than foil aside from mega mark-up jewellery suppliers Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 00:33
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Idk if its nickel plated or stainless. How hot do you have to go to roach the plating, assuming its plated? I'm going to try to go see the Grand Poobah of gunsmiths Friday. I thought I could get away with serious loctite because apparently loctite 680 and shin stock is a pretty common way of refitting shotgun barrels to the reciever.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:52
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stainless steel is a piece of poo poo to solder so i'd discount a hot join if that's the case; ive never soldered nickel so don't take this as gospel but afaik it's reasonably solderable and does not require exotic/specialized fluxes like say stainless or aluminum do. if you use the minimum heat required for a proper soft solder join and flux/shield rigorously beforehand I can't imagine the plating being damaged, nickel's melting point is stupid-high is the piece magnetic? if it's non-/weakly-magnetic it's prolly SS, if it responds as expected it's prolly plated carbon steel. not definitive but it's the lowest-hanging non-destructive assay option also: i wouldn't assume the loctite would cut it, but if it's the go-to for similar applications I wouldn't rule it out. it's a very low-impact approach compared to soldering or w/e, so if the shim flying off at the worst possible moment isn't a safety risk for yourself or others / won't damage other things in the process, i don't see much harm in giving it a try. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 01:42
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Had my first class today. Spent most of the class talking safety and technique, then a tapering demonstration. For our first project we're making a small door knocker, and today's first step was to draw a taper on one end of a 1/2" square stock. This is as far as I got: Had a lot of fun and learned a lot. Got a blister on my my thumb from the hammer and no hair on my right hand from lighting the forge 
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Jan 24, 2019 02:30
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Unrelated: anyone know of a source of tinplate sheet in, you know, quantities smaller than "by the ton from alibaba". i'm dubious but i nose around every few years because you never know I honestly don't know what tinplate is, looks like just plain steel that's tin coated? Are there any grades of stainless that would work for you?
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Jan 24, 2019 02:58
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A Proper Uppercut posted:I honestly don't know what tinplate is, looks like just plain steel that's tin coated? it's "just" tin-plated steel, yeah, but the devil's in the details- the base sheet is a very low-carbon steel, with lower max permissible C% content than any other unspecialized/non-boutique commercial alloy I've seen, and other alloy constituents are similarly low. It's also commonly supplied dead-soft or to temper standards that maximize strength without significantly limiting cold-workability. The takeaway is that it's designed from the bottom up to be ideal for the cold-forming of food cans/containers, and has working properties closer to old-school wrought iron or pure iron than to steel. I'm not making cans but I do traditional repousse sheet work and less traditional hydraulic-urethane die forming, and I prioritize those same things for both processes. Normally you discount steel out of hand for this particular kind of cold-work because it's just not well-suited to the process- stainless is doubly unsuitable, I don't think it'd be possible to make an SS alloy you'd ever set into pitch willingly. Tinplate, though? It moves easily, does not fight you with springiness, and takes far longer to reach the brittle failure point than steel typically does. The last point is especially important for a metal that's very difficult to anneal in sheet form without a tempering oven; I don't like to work with aluminum despite it being cheap and soft specifically because typical Al sheet alloys tear under the punch much faster than copper-based alloys do, and frequent annealing isn't practical when it takes no less than 30 minutes of finicky heat gun work to get a piece off and back on to the pitchbowl. Aluminum is similarly lousy for art die-forming and tears if you look at it funny; I get why they use a dozen progressive swaging dies to make a pop can top, but that's not practical for me, so I need more forgiving materials. Thin tinplate would make an excellent 'white' metal for high-detail die embossing, especially because nickel silver sheet (the alternative) costs literally like 10 times as much as that tinplate would. That and copper are too pricey to experiment with as much as I'd like, but not tinplate. tbh the tin plating is just the cherry on top, rust resistance/food safeness/easy soldering makes it more practical for artistic/craft applications but i could do without- the real value to me is the very high workability of the base metal. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 03:36
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Ambrose, thank you for confirming that my machine tool apprenticeship was indeed trolling the hell out of us by making one of the first projects raising a bowl out of 1/16" 1020.
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Jan 24, 2019 12:26
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lmao raising as an early project is actually a good one for an apprentice b/c raising is hard to wrap your head around as a process but showcases the weird poo poo possible w plastic deformation, but fukn lol at doing it cold w steel sheet, i raised 1/8" sheet hot and even that was hard work before cheap bessemer steel was ubiquitous, very low-carbon puddled iron sheet was cheap and widely-available. that stuff was ideal for artisanal coldworking but it's gone the way of the dinosaurs. tinplate is kind of the nearest modern thing with substantial commercial demand. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 18:54
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Unrelated: anyone know of a source of tinplate sheet in, you know, quantities smaller than "by the ton from alibaba". i'm dubious but i nose around every few years because you never know Maybe you can use a package forwarding service? Don't know if that would be price prohibitive or not.
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Jan 24, 2019 20:46
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Our makerspace has a problem with the gas getting left on after welding. Short of reimplementing the entire welding setup and how people have access to that particular consumable, is there something I can install inline to either: a) turn it off automatically after x minutes b) make it obvious to them and to the rest of the building when the gas is on. Some sort of electrical signal I could fit into a arduino or attiny and do whatever with (flash a light, play an annoying tune, etc).
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Jan 24, 2019 22:34
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moron izzard posted:Our makerspace has a problem with the gas getting left on after welding. Short of reimplementing the entire welding setup and how people have access to that particular consumable, is there something I can install inline to either: Solenoid valve, off delay timer, and giant "ON" button. You press the ON button, the off-delay timer engages and keeps the output on for however long you set it for. Then at the end of the time the solenoid valve kicks off. I just did this almost exactly for a chiller. I used this : https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/specs/fuji116timers.pdf Just be sure to get the proper mounting base.
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Jan 24, 2019 22:40
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If timed access ends up being a pain in the rear end (I would get super cranky about an alarm taking me out of the zone and compelling me to hit a button across the shop because I took longer than 30 minutes or what-have-you) you could use the solenoid valve connected to a switch, but instead of an off delay put one of those green + red industrial tower lamps at head level near the door. Solenoid's closed, the lamp is green, and when it's open the lamp is red. Less foolproof, but it's not impossible that people might actually be able to handle turning it off themselves if the VALVE'S STILL OPEN message is broadcast that aggressively. Or- this is even more unnecessary, but if you're open to an Arduino Thing, it wouldn't be prohibitively complicated to use solenoid valve + switch and only automatically close the valve if PIR sensors mounted on the walls fail to detect movement for 30 uninterrupted minutes or something like that. Skip anticipating member behaviours and give the thing eyes to tell when everybody's gone home for the night.
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Jan 25, 2019 07:08
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Anyone have any examples of small portable blacksmithing setups? Or maybe something small and outside? Trying to get ideas to see if it's feasible for me to build a setup at home.
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Jan 25, 2019 17:31
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Have a look here for some ideas http://www.homemadetools.net/site/search?q=Forge&Search=
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Jan 25, 2019 17:58
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Super 3 posted:Anyone have any examples of small portable blacksmithing setups? Or maybe something small and outside? Trying to get ideas to see if it's feasible for me to build a setup at home. Absolutely, you can build a small charcoal forge out of a scrap brake drum and a bathroom fan. Anvil just needs to be a little block of steel, machine shops often will have off cuts of large diameter round stock that would make a fine tool. A single toolbox will hold your basic tool kit needed for work (punches, drifts, chisels, couple hammers, tongs, a magnet, a lighter and some soapstone). Gas forges are tougher to make portable, but a couple fire bricks, maybe some ceramic wool and something to hold it together, really depends on what you mean by "portable".
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Jan 25, 2019 22:19
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moron izzard posted:Our makerspace has a problem with the gas getting left on after welding. Short of reimplementing the entire welding setup and how people have access to that particular consumable, is there something I can install inline to either: Are we talking oxy or mig? In the latter case, get a solenoid valve and just wire it to the power switch on the machine.
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Jan 25, 2019 22:42
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Super 3 posted:Anyone have any examples of small portable blacksmithing setups? Or maybe something small and outside? Trying to get ideas to see if it's feasible for me to build a setup at home. Look at farriers' setups for inspiration, they usually have to bring the forge and the tools to the horses. I've seen both forges and anvils built into trailer hitch mounts so that your workspace just hangs off the back of a pickup truck, simultaneously a sturdy yet very portable arrangement. A while back I did some work on designing a two-wheeled bicycle trailer/hand cart portable smithy; never got close to a final design ready for fabrication, but it was still a fun exercise in trying to make something that hauls around a 90-lb block of steel that you could describe as "lightweight". Also a good exercise in work ergonomics because if you start from scratch you can make sure you minimize "working stupid". Welded aluminum tube frame, tiny-rear end leaf spring suspension, a 8" tall enclosed compartment spanning the entire bottom of the trailer for stock storage, and a vertical cabinet with locking doors in the centre of the trailer for tools (everything being bungee-corded in place to minimize the jingle-jangle). The "shop workstations" folded away for travel- two workbenches on the sides of the trailer abutting the cabinets folded down, a small gas forge folded down at the rear of the trailer, and the anvil stand + a bench vise folded down at a 45-deg angle at the corners (the anvil was to be stored at the bottom of the tool cabinet and manually installed during deployment so it'd be above the center of the axle during travel). All had removable post legs you'd attach during deployment to take the strain off the trailer itself, and when I put the design down I was bogged down in trying to integrate a sort of drop-down trailer stand directly into the chassis to boost the entire trailer off the wheels and onto rigid legs for deployment, it was gonna be a lightweight knock-off of those Trailer Leg things that swung up into pockets at the trailer corners:  ...you, uh, definitely don't need to get this stupidly overwrought to achieve "portability", though. Slung Blade posted:Absolutely, you can build a small charcoal forge out of a scrap brake drum and a bathroom fan. Anvil just needs to be a little block of steel, machine shops often will have off cuts of large diameter round stock that would make a fine tool. A single toolbox will hold your basic tool kit needed for work (punches, drifts, chisels, couple hammers, tongs, a magnet, a lighter and some soapstone). My first pick for a light forge would be gas, just because the construction does not have to withstand the far higher wear and tear of a traditional firebowl. The insulation's light and the shell can be light, too- if you use a shell at all. I did a lot of forging of up to ~5/16" stock in a mini forge made from two light firebricks cut into 4 squares, hole sawed into cross-sectional layers for a stacked forge chamber, and then wired together and refractory cemented at the joints, all heated by a particularly burly air-propane plumber's torch. Gave me a lot of good service and the entire apparatus couldn't have weighed more than 5-10 pounds. The burner + reg + hoses + tank from a more substantial forge aren't light, of course, and you can probably build a barebones solid fuel forge lighter than all the combined components of a 'proper' gas forge, that's true, but amortizing the total weight out across 2 or 3 subassemblies vs one heavy-rear end cast iron firepot is, I'd guess, probably preferable for 'portability' in most contexts. e: also any venturi-burner gas forge design will cut out the need for forced air, which is a big pain in the rear end for portability because you suddenly have to think about electricity Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 23:24
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i keep saving replies to this thread for workposting and it's a really bad habit because it leads me to write no fewer than 1500 words in every reply because as long as i'm writing i'm not staring at the minute hand on the wall clock
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Jan 25, 2019 23:26
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Super 3 posted:Anyone have any examples of small portable blacksmithing setups? Or maybe something small and outside? Trying to get ideas to see if it's feasible for me to build a setup at home. How portable we talking here? "throw it in the car' portable or 'can be wheeled around'? Because my basic rear end box 'o dirt forge with a few firebricks might be heavy as gently caress from the dirt, but if you built it onto a wooden table with wheels (or just more efficiently than I did) you'd be able to move it around without issue. Hell, if I'd been more efficient in my build I'd be putting my forge inside when it rains, instead of just moving my blower inside.
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Jan 25, 2019 23:30
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welcome to the shop. the volkswagen shop.  https://www.njaluminiumlinings.com/volkswagon-van-conversion-mobile-forge.html
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Jan 25, 2019 23:43
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speaking of forging, I did a thing today https://imgur.com/gallery/IpgOR3E
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Jan 26, 2019 02:22
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Holy balls.
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Jan 26, 2019 03:53
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Thanks for the replies. For portable I'm thinking heavy 4x4 constructed stands on the beefiest caster wheels I can find. One for a gas forge and one for an anvil and a vise. I might not put wheels on the anvil stand and instead use a large dolly to put it where I need it. I want to be able to move it without a lot of bullshit involved, which is why I was thinking gas. Detach the tank and in theory I've got three pieces to move. Forge, Anvil, and tank. Plan would be to store it in my garage and then either wheel it out into the driveway or onto the side of the house where I have a small concrete pad when in use. Other option would be to build a small roof and store it all under that on the side of my house where the pad is. In both cases I'd want the footprint to be small.
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Jan 28, 2019 15:30
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been poring through human-powered machine tools again, here's the highlights treadle lathes are nothing new, but theyre almost always presented as dusty, time-patinaed period antiques, even if they function- you never see very late-era, relatively 'modern' treadle lathes restored for use in the same way you'd restore an old South Bend or sth   a nice complement to treadle lathes- a treadle grinding wheel for sharpening turning tools Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 28, 2019 |
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Jan 28, 2019 20:05
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How my day went making a 1/2" forstner bit 10 inches longer. 1. Chuck a piece of 3/8 in the lathe. Face, center drill, poke a 1/4" hole came out 5 thou over, oh well. Good, done with that end. 2. Flip it around, face, and center drill. Remove from chuck and set aside. 3. Chuck forstner bit in the lathe, make a couple light passes. Measure, about 60 has to come off so I'll dial in 30 planning to check again, sneaking up on final dimension. Measure after that pass and I'm loving 10 thou under. Fml! Oh well, grab the parting tool and make the shoulder square. 4. Degrease everything with contact cleaner, smear red loctite on everything and slip the piece of 3/8 rod over the turned down stub of the bit and use a center in the tail stock to hold everything together while the loctite cures. Not using the DRO hosed me pretty good. I dont use this lathe very often and figured if you dialed in 30 you were taking 30 total. Not 30 a side. Oh well, this will work and next time I know.
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Jan 29, 2019 05:23
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