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Who do you want to be the 2020 Democratic Nominee? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe "the liberal who fights busing" Biden |
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27 | 1.40% |
| Bernie "please don't die" Sanders |
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1017 | 52.69% |
| Cory "charter schools" Booker |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Kirsten "wall street" Gillibrand |
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24 | 1.24% |
| Kamala "truancy queen" Harris |
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59 | 3.06% |
| Julian "who?" Castro |
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7 | 0.36% |
| Tulsi "gay panic" Gabbard |
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25 | 1.30% |
| Michael "crimes crimes crimes" Avenatti |
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22 | 1.14% |
| Sherrod "discount bernie" Brown |
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21 | 1.09% |
| Amy "horrible boss" Klobuchar |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Tammy "stands for america" Duckworth |
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48 | 2.49% |
| Beto "whataburger" O'Rourke |
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32 | 1.66% |
| Elizabeth "instagram beer" Warren |
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284 | 14.72% |
| Tom "impeach please" Steyer |
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4 | 0.21% |
| Michael "soda is the devil" Bloomberg |
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9 | 0.47% |
| Joseph Stalin |
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287 | 14.87% |
| Howard "coffee republican" Schultz |
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10 | 0.52% |
Jay "nobody cares about climate change  " Inslee |
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13 | 0.67% |
| Pete "gently caress the homeless" Butt Man |
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17 | 0.88% |
| Total: | 1930 votes | ||
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Badger of Basra posted:Pokemon go to the polls is a passable grandma joke The delivery was poo poo though.
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Jan 23, 2019 23:12
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Helsing posted:No you can't. Oh its going to be phenomenally controversial and that's why telling someone who makes 25k a year that we are going to increase their federal taxes from 940 dollars to 1500 dollars and a promise provide free health care is going to be a hard sell. Where on the other hand telling someone who makes 25k a year that we are going to cut their federal taxes from 940 dollars to 0 dollars and a promise to provide free health care is going to be an easy sell. The total tax receipts by all people who make less than 30k a year is ~30 billion a year, its a rounding error for the US budget.
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Jan 23, 2019 23:24
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karthun posted:Raising taxes on the poor via a 2% payroll tax is not cutting taxes on the poor. The income that would be provided by a 2% income tax in people who make less then 30k a year would only raise 17 billion dollars. That is a rounding error for the cost of M4A so why the gently caress are you so insistent on taxing the poor when we could give them money? First, as I told you yesterday, Bernie's plan doesn't call for the poor to pay the healthcare tax; they're exempted, as they should be. Second, I don't recall your speaking out against the 7.65 percent payroll taxes for social security and medicare that are levied against workers making as little as $5,000/year. Third, why is M4A your particular hill to die on when these taxes won't apply to the poor, will be tens of thousands dollars less than what people are already paying toward healthcare costs, and would provide superior healthcare more extensive than anything that exists today?
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Jan 23, 2019 23:36
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Could be worth checking out. Going to listen to the podcast https://twitter.com/slatepodcasts/status/1088199518150107137?s=21
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Jan 23, 2019 23:38
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karthun posted:Oh its going to be phenomenally controversial and that's why telling someone who makes 25k a year that we are going to increase their federal taxes from 940 dollars to 1500 dollars and a promise provide free health care is going to be a hard sell. Bernie's M4A plan would increase taxes on a single person making $25k by $1,000/year. Show me an ACA plan for that income that doesn't require five to 10 times that in premium & out-of-pocket costs.
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Jan 23, 2019 23:43
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Willa Rogers posted:Bernie's M4A plan would increase taxes on a single person making $25k by $1,000/year. And that $1,000/year increase will make it a hard sell. Why don't you try a 1k decrease in taxes?
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Jan 23, 2019 23:54
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karthun posted:And that $1,000/year increase will make it a hard sell. Why don't you try a 1k decrease in taxes? Because that $1,000 is a steal given what people get vs. insurance premiums and out-of-pocket healthcare costs. Why are you feeding into the context-free conservative trope of "taxes are bad" even when they aren't, and when they would provide a cost savings for that income level of thousands of dollars per year? p.s.: Still waiting for that ACA plan that costs less than $1,000/year in premiums + out-of-pocket costs for $25k/year incomes. eta: Your massive goalpost-moving and inability to answer questions proves you're not arguing in good faith anymore, if you ever were. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 00:17
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Willa Rogers posted:Because that $1,000 is a steal given what people get vs. insurance premiums and out-of-pocket healthcare costs. We are talking about how to get past the panic that will come with massive changes to the healthcare system. Your solution is to increase taxes by 30 billion from the poor. My solution is to increase taxes by 40 billion on the rich and to decrease taxes by 10 billion to the poor. I will 100% say that taxes on the poor are bad and taxes on the rich are good. You want increased taxes on the poor. I want decreased taxes on the poor.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:34
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cool are either of you running for president
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Jan 24, 2019 00:35
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Cease to Hope posted:cool are either of you running for president me, I am
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Jan 24, 2019 00:49
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sexpig by night posted:me, I am Buttigieg account spotted.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:50
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Cease to Hope posted:cool are either of you running for president Good point, I'm done Willa, you can have the last words.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:56
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Willa Rogers posted:Because that $1,000 is a steal given what people get vs. insurance premiums and out-of-pocket healthcare costs.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:58
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My final word for now on healthcare, which segues back into the thread topic, is this chart of stats from the Politico/Harvard poll released today: (I'm kind of amazed that so many voters are clamoring for healthcare reform almost nine years after the Dems passed "healthcare reform.") A more thread-relevant chart from the same poll: 
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Jan 24, 2019 01:18
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karthun posted:And that $1,000/year increase will make it a hard sell. Why don't you try a 1k decrease in taxes? Because a $1k/yr tax is already a massive decrease compared to the health insurance "tax" of several thousand dollars a year that they currently pay to insurance companies. This throws a lot of people off when discussing healthcare - the taxes and costs replace current healthcare spending.
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Jan 24, 2019 01:57
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karthun posted:And that $1,000/year increase will make it a hard sell. Why don't you try a 1k decrease in taxes? the liberal fetishization of tax credits is the most inexplicable thing, to me what about the concept of "provide people a service" is so utterly loving alien to democratic politicians and loyalists that the best possible thing they can think to do, for the people they ostensibly represent, is have them contribute less to the government when did the apex of What Is Achievable become you slitting your own throat in the hopes of your tennis buddy not making cocktails afterwards awkward
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Jan 24, 2019 02:06
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Luckyellow posted:What do you guys think about Buttigieg? i'm guessing he sticks it out until iowa, massively under-performs, and then suspends his campaign the united states just isn't ready for a president named pete butt
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Jan 24, 2019 02:28
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"BUTT JUDGE!" *click*
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Jan 24, 2019 02:55
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Main Paineframe posted:Because a $1k/yr tax is already a massive decrease compared to the health insurance "tax" of several thousand dollars a year that they currently pay to insurance companies. As soon as you start talking about how technically the working poor will actually be saving money the Republicans will talk about how you are going to increase income taxes by 150% and you lost the bill. Instead you raise taxes on the top 0.5% to 70%, cut taxes on the poor to 0% and have more than enough money to pay for M4A. gently caress I bet you have enough money left over to send everyone a $100 check every Nov 1st as a Medicare for All refund.
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Jan 24, 2019 03:25
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karthun posted:As soon as you start talking about how technically the working poor will actually be saving money the Republicans will talk about how you are going to increase income taxes by 150% and you lost the bill. Republicans say that about everything. If you think Republicans saying something will raise your taxes will kill any bill then, gently caress, just give up now. We can't be afraid of Republican messaging, because Republicans will always attack anything Democrats want, because Republicans are our opponents! Trying to undercut Republican messaging by not doing the stuff you think will make them attack you has never worked and will never work. You can't pre-surrender and expect positive results.
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Jan 24, 2019 03:30
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I'm more wary of Democratic messaging about taxes than I am about Republican messaging about taxes, because the stuff you hear coming from liberals like karthun used to once only come from rightwing assholes. Besides, this is all loving moot until the financing parts come before the congressional committees under Pres. Sanders. Even Sanders has said his financing proposals aren't set in stone and are likely to change and be changed. The House initially set ACA's Medicaid expansion at (a woefully inadequate)150 percent of the FPL before the Senate got hold of it and made it the current miserly 132 percent. The House had also exempted social security income from the calculations for subsidies and Medicaid expansion while the Senate thought that granny's early SS income should count toward her royal annual income of $17,000/year. But having Dems moan THINK OF THE TAXES is a big reason as to why we're locked into our hell cycle of the GOP cutting taxes, Dems restoring them for the ultra-richies-only, then the GOP cutting them again across the board when they're in power.
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Jan 24, 2019 03:43
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Luckyellow posted:What do you guys think about Buttigieg? i like butt
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Jan 24, 2019 03:56
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fool_of_sound posted:yea i basically cheered when i saw that Tonight on Maddow, Kamala Harris addressed Jacob Wohl's birtherism claims during her launch interview. She has no chance.
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Jan 24, 2019 06:14
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AsInHowe posted:Tonight on Maddow, Kamala Harris addressed Jacob Wohl's birtherism claims during her launch interview. She has no chance against Trump. Unfortunately I think she does have a good chance for the primary. Still way too early to tell though of course.
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Jan 24, 2019 06:22
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SeANMcBAY posted:She has no chance against Trump. Unfortunately I think she does have a good chance for the primary. Still way too early to tell though of course. I'm increasingly thinking she's not going to be able to get her feet under her. Someone is going to slaughter her in the deep south on her pro-police record. Maybe Booker, he has a lot to gain for doing so. She pretty clearly doesn't have any idea how to stand up to scrutiny. I'm still worried about her, but less than I was a week ago.
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Jan 24, 2019 06:26
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The thing is about establishment Democrat picks is that the Democrat establishment is so completely incompetent, corrupt and delusional that the institutional advantages may be outweighed by their disadvantages. I think we saw this on the other side with Jeb!, they don't know how to win competitive races without openly cheating anymore.
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Jan 24, 2019 06:34
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lol noone here has actually tried to get a bronze plan or had to use one
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Jan 24, 2019 07:29
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Will this Joseph Stalin fellow crank out the guillotines for billionaires?
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Jan 24, 2019 08:11
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Gripweed posted:Republicans say that about everything. If you think Republicans saying something will raise your taxes will kill any bill then, gently caress, just give up now.
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Jan 24, 2019 09:19
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Willa Rogers posted:I'm more wary of Democratic messaging about taxes than I am about Republican messaging about taxes, because the stuff you hear coming from liberals like karthun used to once only come from rightwing assholes. Yeah, it's funny how, now that they've convinced mainstream Dems that budgets and deficits and taxes are the third rail of politics, Republicans don't seem to give nearly as much of a poo poo about them anymore. Amazing how that works - it's almost as if their concern for paying for projects was never genuine to begin with. 
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Jan 24, 2019 09:28
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Grognan posted:lol noone here has actually tried to get a bronze plan or had to use one I looked into it once They're poo poo
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Jan 24, 2019 13:43
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Gripweed posted:Republicans say that about everything. If you think Republicans saying something will raise your taxes will kill any bill then, gently caress, just give up now. How about, and get this, we cut taxes on the poor while raising them on the rich AND provide M4A? Sanders is trying to squeeze 31 billion dollars out of the working poor, why don't we shift that 31 billion to the idle rich instead?
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Jan 24, 2019 15:33
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not a tankie but i voted stalin. he killed a lot of nazis
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Jan 24, 2019 15:47
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Joe Biden is not a pedophile, he is an ephebophile;
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Jan 24, 2019 15:52
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I gotta admit, I didn't expect Kamala's messaging to be this bad. After all, what Dem doesn't want a president who's going to make sure our heroic attack helicopter pilots have plenty of work to do? Trump's poo poo about pushing out transgender soldiers is awful, but that's the take she landed on? Not something about equality or discrimination, but about how we need to make sure our attack helicopter pilots keep their jobs? https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1088200203839160320
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Jan 24, 2019 15:55
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Main Paineframe posted:I gotta admit, I didn't expect Kamala's messaging to be this bad. After all, what Dem doesn't want a president who's going to make sure our heroic attack helicopter pilots have plenty of work to do? Firing people who are 1 year away from the pension is a huge loving dick move.
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Jan 24, 2019 16:00
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karthun posted:Firing people who are 1 year away from the pension is a huge loving dick move. Only kind of huge dick trump has
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Jan 24, 2019 16:02
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Harris pretending to be any kind of trans ally after opposing trans inmates receiving court ordered surgeries is pretty low.
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Jan 24, 2019 16:02
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Main Paineframe posted:I gotta admit, I didn't expect Kamala's messaging to be this bad. After all, what Dem doesn't want a president who's going to make sure our heroic attack helicopter pilots have plenty of work to do? The left, hilariously, manages to have the more unified and relatable message. "Our massive, imperial, military is immoral, but it's also immoral to use that body to float trial balloons to discriminate against people"
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Jan 24, 2019 16:03
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karthun posted:How about, and get this, we cut taxes on the poor while raising them on the rich AND provide M4A? Sanders is trying to squeeze 31 billion dollars out of the working poor, why don't we shift that 31 billion to the idle rich instead? Okay but also how is this relevant. Is Kamala Harris or Beto O'Rourke criticizing Medicare For All for not being left enough?
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Jan 24, 2019 17:13
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