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Who do you want to be the 2020 Democratic Nominee? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe "the liberal who fights busing" Biden |
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27 | 1.40% |
| Bernie "please don't die" Sanders |
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1017 | 52.69% |
| Cory "charter schools" Booker |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Kirsten "wall street" Gillibrand |
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24 | 1.24% |
| Kamala "truancy queen" Harris |
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59 | 3.06% |
| Julian "who?" Castro |
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7 | 0.36% |
| Tulsi "gay panic" Gabbard |
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25 | 1.30% |
| Michael "crimes crimes crimes" Avenatti |
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22 | 1.14% |
| Sherrod "discount bernie" Brown |
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21 | 1.09% |
| Amy "horrible boss" Klobuchar |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Tammy "stands for america" Duckworth |
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48 | 2.49% |
| Beto "whataburger" O'Rourke |
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32 | 1.66% |
| Elizabeth "instagram beer" Warren |
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284 | 14.72% |
| Tom "impeach please" Steyer |
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4 | 0.21% |
| Michael "soda is the devil" Bloomberg |
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9 | 0.47% |
| Joseph Stalin |
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287 | 14.87% |
| Howard "coffee republican" Schultz |
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10 | 0.52% |
Jay "nobody cares about climate change  " Inslee |
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13 | 0.67% |
| Pete "gently caress the homeless" Butt Man |
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17 | 0.88% |
| Total: | 1930 votes | ||
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Brony Car posted:A lot of people in my social circles like him. I hope my experience is a humongous outlier due to where I live, but I still worry. I remember people like Perot for the same reasons they like him. That magic combination of being pro-business, but nice and NO ONE OWNS HIM 'CAUSE HE'S RICH. drat i didnt know they have apartments on wall street
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Jan 26, 2019 03:54
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Bloomberg probably think he can make a coalition out of #NeverBernie and #NeverTrump voters. Turns out those people don't matter.
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Jan 26, 2019 03:57
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Brony Car posted:NO ONE OWNS HIM 'CAUSE HE'S RICH. im really loving hoping trump has disabused most idiots of this idea
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Jan 26, 2019 04:01
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I'm genuinely struggling to imagine the social circles where people like Bloomberg. I can't imagine anyone except ~radical centrist~ types preferring him, and what polling we have supports the idea that few people like him.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:03
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Ytlaya posted:I'm genuinely struggling to imagine the social circles where people like Bloomberg. I can't imagine anyone except ~radical centrist~ types preferring him, and what polling we have supports the idea that few people like him. People who, during Thanksgiving arguments, wail, "STOP ARGUING! YOU'RE RUINING THANKSGIVING!  "So my mom 15 years ago I guess.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:06
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:drat i didnt know they have apartments on wall street Define "Wall Street." I think Bloomberg's appeal is really high among professionals generally. Lawyers, bankers, consultants, accountants anyone else in a corporate service sector, doctors, many "small" (and actually "small") business owners and aspirational immigrants who have mixed feelings about black people. Stop and frisk didn't hurt them so much and many of them credit Bloomberg with keeping New York (or at least Manhattan and the nicer parts of the boroughs) safe. Many of them have liberal sympathies, but their incomes also depend on either working for or providing services to large corporations so radical wealth distribution scares them. Stuff like trying to ban large sodas and tax sugar also appealed to their bougie sensibilities. That's why I mistrust the suburbs (at least in NY, CT and NJ) when it comes to feeling the Bern if Bloomberg is out there. Majorian posted:People who, during Thanksgiving arguments, wail, "STOP ARGUING! YOU'RE RUINING THANKSGIVING! This is an accurate description of many Bloomberg lovers I know.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:28
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So it's.... not Bernie, bitch?
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Jan 26, 2019 04:33
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Let's confine "Is Bernie too old?"-chat to this thread, since it seems to have leaked out into USPOL. I think one of the reasons why people think Bernie being old is a super bad thing is because they mistakenly think that Trump's age is why he's a mush-brained racist sociopath. They are incorrect, however; Trump has been all of those things for decades. His age has made it worse, but Bernie doesn't seem to be declining mentally in any way, shape, or form. I get seeing it as a negative in Bernie's column, because hey, it is a negative. But I kind of have to question the priorities of people who see it as a deal-breaker.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:34
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i doubt it'll continue in here where the libs fear to tread
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Jan 26, 2019 04:37
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Majorian posted:Let's confine "Is Bernie too old?"-chat to this thread, since it seems to have leaked out into USPOL. It's because they're rich shitheads who like the status quo
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Jan 26, 2019 04:42
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Brony Car posted:Define "Wall Street." they're conservative on basically every material issue, but theyre on the lib side of the culture war and careerist dems know they can go far and get very close to big donors by appealing to them while telling young people and other berniecrats to get hosed cargo cult fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 04:43
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Majorian posted:Bernie doesn't seem to be declining mentally in any way, shape, or form. I get seeing it as a negative in Bernie's column, because hey, it is a negative. But I kind of have to question the priorities of people who see it as a deal-breaker. twodot fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 04:46
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twodot posted:Is there any age you would consider a deal breaker for President providing that they didn't seem to be declining mentally to the public? I would assume everyone has a line here, and it's just a question of whether that line is 79 or 99. (I'm comfortable with putting that line at 79, and my other complaint about Sanders is that he doesn't go far enough) 72, no more government by the statistically dead
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Jan 26, 2019 04:48
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I hope Bernie anoints someone to carry on for him, cuz Bernie is too old.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:49
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Coredump posted:I hope Bernie anoints someone to carry on for him, cuz Bernie is too old. AOC is basically that person. It’s gonna be hilarious to watch half the Democrats that have been love with her the past month or two just completely turn on her once she endorses Bernie
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Jan 26, 2019 04:51
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cargo cult posted:why limit this to bloomberg though? that describes places like the nova suburbs perfectly and they have the entire slate of neolib empty suits to pick from. they're essentially conservatives, they're just not psychotic women hating white nationalist conservatives, and they're a huge segment of democratic likely voters If the Centrists somehow don't prevail and Sanders gets the nomination and this drives someone like Bloomberg (or maybe a disgruntled Joe Lieberman-like figure) to comes out as a third party candidate, you don't think there's going to be significant defection? I guess I fixate on Bloomberg because he's been the most vocal and obvious about contemplating a third party run if "both parties go too far out of line." If I'm just overthinking this, I'll be relieved. I'll still vote for whoever's policies reflect me best instead of trying to second guess "electability" but I still have the right to worry.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:51
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Majorian posted:Let's confine "Is Bernie too old?"-chat to this thread, since it seems to have leaked out into USPOL. Since i don't personally believe that everyone including myself is secretly a fascist striving for a flimsy excuse not to support a leftist I think the age question is probably taking a little more prevalence in 2020 because the Democratic field is actually seeming like a fairly varied selection of age with a number of younger alternatives vs a few older front runners and because the President happens to be notably old and demented. Which isn't to say that Trump's awfulness is formed by any kind of dementia/age issue, but that its just part of the bad formula and part that has left an impression. Personally I think "age" is a more nuanced issue than that. Yes, there's mental health and that's of concern with someone like Trump (besides you know, all that other stuff). There's also general health and that's a concern with someone like John McCain (again, besides all that other stuff). I think there's also a matter if rigid politics and concern of inability to adapt and change. That's something I'd hold against Joe Biden (again, I have other concerns) but which also gets lobbied by many leftists against the likes of Pelosi and in support of people like AOC. Now, since everyone's worked up about this being used against Bernie I should say I don't personally say him as a huge problem towards any of these. He seems of decent health, physical and mental, and while I have some criticisms of his ability to adapt his message where it seems failing I don't see it as a deal breaker. And he can address that stuff with platforms, aides, and a wise VP nominee to all but the most rigid anti-age people, I think. Assuming they also support his platform.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:52
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SeANMcBAY posted:AOC is basically that person. I know and dammit AOC is not old enough. The universe has a cruel sense of humor. How do Ellison or Tliab compare to Bernie? Tliab is a member of the DSA correct? Coredump fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 04:52
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i mean, for me bernie's age is more emblematic of the left's problems in recruiting and fostering credible leadership. sanders might be fine in and of himself but, when democratic-leaning voters are increasingly young and diverse, it is notable that so many leaders are old and white and that attempts to diversify the ranks come up against serious resistance.twodot posted:Is there any age you would consider a deal breaker for President providing that they didn't seem to be declining mentally to the public? I would assume everyone has a line here, and it's just a question of whether that line is 79 or 99. (I'm comfortable with putting that line at 79, and my other complaint about Sanders is that he doesn't go far enough) peter cooper of the greenback party ran for president at the spry age of 85 promising fiat currency!
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Jan 26, 2019 04:53
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I said it in the other thread, but I'd be happy with Bernie choosing a VP really early who's ideologically similar to him so people aren't as put off by the age issue.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:54
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Jaramin posted:I said it in the other thread, but I'd be happy with Bernie choosing a VP really early who's ideologically similar to him so people aren't as put off by the age issue. He kinda has a perfect one ready made in Nina Turner
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Jan 26, 2019 04:57
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STAC Goat posted:He seems of decent health, physical and mental, and while I have some criticisms of his ability to adapt his message where it seems failing I don't see it as a deal breaker. And he can address that stuff with platforms, aides, and a wise VP nominee to all but the most rigid anti-age people, I think. Assuming they also support his platform. edit: It would make a ton more sense to me if people were saying "Don't worry about Sanders' age, we'll elect a good, younger President, and then keep Sanders as Vice President for speeches". twodot fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 04:58
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fool_of_sound posted:He kinda has a perfect one ready made in Nina Turner I think it's more likely to be Ro Khanna.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:58
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QuoProQuid posted:i mean, for me bernie's age is more emblematic of the left's problems in recruiting and fostering credible leadership. sanders might be fine in and of himself but, when democratic-leaning voters are increasingly young and diverse, it is notable that so many leaders are old and white and that attempts to diversify the ranks come up against serious resistance. I think it's emblematic of an issue the left had until relatively recently. Bernie's run really energized people, and a lot of the younger, leftier members of congress are indicative of that. Unfortunately, those people are also relatively early in their political careers.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:59
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Considering everything else you could possibly be concerned with in a democratic candidate, I really don't think age fixation is worthwhile at all unless they pick a monster as their VP
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Jan 26, 2019 05:00
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QuoProQuid posted:i mean, for me bernie's age is more emblematic of the left's problems in recruiting and fostering credible leadership. sanders might be fine in and of himself but, when democratic-leaning voters are increasingly young and diverse, it is notable that so many leaders are old and white and that attempts to diversify the ranks come up against serious resistance. Yeah, that's why I find the "this is only coming up because people want an excuse against Bernie!" argument so silly. There's been an extended argument FROM the left for awhile now that the Democratic core is too old and that's part of the problem with Trump/Hillary and the advancement of young politicians is the way forward. So that seems like a natural extension to apply to Bernie, Warren, and Biden. Now that doesn't mean you can't see Bernie or any of them as an exception to the idea or important enough to overlook. Its also possible that the people arguing this simply aren't the people making those same arguments against Pelosi or that the simple fact that Bernie is further left is a big enough difference to overcome the age thing. But dismissing it out of hand as a centrist/liberal/right/fascist attack seems to be actively ignoring that the argument has been going for awhile against a lot of old Dems who aren't Bernie.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:01
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, that's why I find the "this is only coming up because people want an excuse against Bernie!" argument so silly. There's been an extended argument FROM the left for awhile now that the Democratic core is too old and that's part of the problem with Trump/Hillary and the advancement of young politicians is the way forward. So that seems like a natural extension to apply to Bernie, Warren, and Biden. The Bern is our best bet. We play the cards we are dealt.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:04
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twodot posted:I've seen this message a number of times and I don't understand it at all. No amount of platforms, aides, or wise VPs will stop a 79-83 year old person from experiencing serious medical problems. And if your message is "It's ok if the President suffers debilitating medical problems, the VP can just take over", that's a poo poo plan from beginning to end, just elect the VP that you think is as good on policy and better on "likely to survive the term they were elected to" as the actual President. As I said, its a concern of mine just not a dealbreaker. I definitely see how someone can feel much stronger about the idea of an 80 year old President. It makes sense. Judakel posted:The Bern is our best bet. We play the cards we are dealt. And that's a fair and practical decision I respect. But you know, that's a different matter than telling other people who express concern about Bernie's age that they're just fascists making up excuses to dismiss him.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:07
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twodot posted:I've seen this message a number of times and I don't understand it at all. No amount of platforms, aides, or wise VPs will stop a 79-83 year old person from experiencing serious medical problems. And if your message is "It's ok if the President suffers debilitating medical problems, the VP can just take over", that's a poo poo plan from beginning to end, just elect the VP that you think is as good on policy and better on "likely to survive the term they were elected to" as the actual President. I would find this argument a lot more compelling if I were convinced that any of the other Democratic candidates and likely candidates had as good chance of beating Trump as Bernie. As it stands, though, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, there's really no other option other than Bernie. STAC Goat posted:But you know, that's a different matter than telling other people who express concern about Bernie's age that they're just fascists making up excuses to dismiss him. I think when people say that it's mostly hyperbole. (unless they're talking about people like Neera Tanden, who actually are crypto-fascists) Majorian fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 05:11
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Majorian posted:I would find this argument a lot more compelling if I were convinced that any of the other Democratic candidates and likely candidates had as good chance of beating Trump as Bernie. As it stands, though, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, there's really no other option other than Bernie. I think if your concern is purely about who can beat Trump you should probably be waiting a year or so to back anyone in the primary.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:13
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The generational gap on the left is more the result of decades of Cold War propaganda and Reagan breaking the spine of the Democrats resulting in the only people who haven't internalised it being the ones who were either too young to be exposed to the brainwashing or old enough that they remember a time before it, and that the entire generation just realised that patiently waiting for your turn to enter power isn't going to happen because boomers will never release their death grip.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:14
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Pylons posted:I think if your concern is purely about who can beat Trump you should probably be waiting a year or so to back anyone in the primary. I'd much rather get behind the candidate who I think has the best chance of winning, so I can do whatever I possibly can to keep him from getting ratfucked again.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:15
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STAC Goat posted:But you know, that's a different matter than telling other people who express concern about Bernie's age that they're just fascists making up excuses to dismiss him. They may have a point.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:16
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Majorian posted:
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Jan 26, 2019 05:18
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obviously we're still almost two years out but early polling suggests that almost any democratic candidate could beat trump. from ppp: Biden v. Trump: 53%-41% Sanders v. Trump: 51% v. 41% Warren v. Trump: 48% v. 42% Harris v. Trump: 48%-41% Booker v. Trump: 47%-42% O’Rourke v. Trump: 47% v. 41% Gillibrand v. Trump: 46% v. 42% tbqh, i would prefer it if democrats didnt choose the president they thought most likely to win and instead chose the one most capable of promoting a leftist platform. if we are going for "most likely to win," then the nominee would probably wind up being biden
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Jan 26, 2019 05:19
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As long as Bernie fills his cabinet with leftists it won't matter too much. If his brain rots they can just make like Reagan and roll him out to make speeches and sign legislation. Instead of confusing real life with movies he'll start spouting circa 1974 New Left slogans, it'll be fine.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:23
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theres no way biden is electable after the primaries ruin him, right? if he's only that much ahead of bernie before its demonstrated explicitly just how racist and creepy and lovely he is, i assume he'll tank
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Jan 26, 2019 05:23
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STAC Goat posted:Its certainly possible but the Trump thread argument had very much degenerated into a few posters repeatedly saying variations of "its just a liberal/centrist/fascist excuse/lie" and one or two people on the other side saying "no I'm not." I mean, tbf, there are a whole lot of Very Online Centrist types who just a couple months ago were shrieking, "No more white male presidents," who then promptly dropped that when Beto came onto the scene. Now many of the same folks are screaming, "No more old presidents." Which makes me think that they're not really interested in judging candidates by their platform, and instead just want to oppose Bernie at all costs. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone who is concerned about his age, of course, but there are certainly a few people concern trolling. Verviticus posted:theres no way biden is electable after the primaries ruin him, right? if he's only that much ahead of bernie before its demonstrated explicitly just how racist and creepy and lovely he is, i assume he'll tank Pretty much. The latest revelation about Fred Upton alone should be pretty hobbling for his candidacy. Add to that Anita Hill, school segregation, and his sheer creepy touchiness when around young women and girls, and he's a total non-starter.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:24
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Verviticus posted:theres no way biden is electable after the primaries ruin him, right? if he's only that much ahead of bernie before its demonstrated explicitly just how racist and creepy and lovely he is, i assume he'll tank A lot can happen during the primary debates. I expect a lot of Bernie's opponents to go extremely hard on him, though it obviously remains to be seen whether those attacks will land or not.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:25
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Verviticus posted:theres no way biden is electable after the primaries ruin him, right? if he's only that much ahead of bernie before its demonstrated explicitly just how racist and creepy and lovely he is, i assume he'll tank He’s gonna get MeTooed 3 months into his campaign.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:28
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