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uninterrupted posted:If you're going to ignore people who've actually gone to Venezuela you should at least also ignore people who don't live there. Why are you quoting posts from 2016 when people are discussing the state of Venezuela today? The commie trolling is just getting blatant as this point.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:10
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Chuck Boone posted:The opposition's reason for asking for international observers to not come is because their participation could be seen as international endorsement of a rigged election. The CNE banned entire parties from running against Maduro. Asking for the international community to not participate in a rigged election is a perfectly reasonable response to these conditions. They banned entire parties who tried to overthrow the government. You think the US would allow ISIS to run? If a political party is out there lynching and lighting black people on fire, and trying to assassinate government officials, AND IS LITERARILY STOCKPILING WEAPONS AND EXPLOSIVES IN THEIR PARTY HEADQUARTERS, why would the government give them legitimacy? And again, none of this is a reason for international observers not to come. They could have very easily prefaced their notes with "these political parties were banned, we ran our own polls and this is an estimate of how they might have done". Election observers go to a shitload of contested elections with crazy shady poo poo happening.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:11
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beer_war posted:Step 1: Get arrested. If Guaido isn't arrested for freemen-on-the-land-ing himself president and coordinating with other countries to steal away Venezuelan capital, it's pretty obvious the opposition was under no threat during the last election.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:13
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Is President Assange still hiding in that embassy? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 17:15
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Volkerball posted:Much like this thread. I'm coming around to the idea that Americans really do make everything worse.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:16
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uninterrupted posted:They banned entire parties who tried to overthrow the government. You think the US would allow ISIS to run? I've read this and I've chosen to not engage with it. uninterrupted posted:And again, none of this is a reason for international observers not to come. They could have very easily prefaced their notes with "these political parties were banned, we ran our own polls and this is an estimate of how they might have done". Election observers go to a shitload of contested elections with crazy shady poo poo happening. Or, even better, they could say "We're not going to lend any legitimacy to this vote, the result of which has already been decided by Maduro". beer_war posted:Step 1: Get arrested. Getting myself arrested/tortured/banned from holding office and my entire political party banned to own... myself??
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Jan 26, 2019 17:22
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uninterrupted posted:They banned entire parties who tried to overthrow the government. You think the US would allow ISIS to run? I feel like this thread is just people taking shifts on these same points forever while Venezuela burns and to me it seems all you want is misery. Ill take a shift at telling you that you are both grossly misinformed and actively detrimental to any understanding or resolution to this situation. The US has no actively functioning laws preventing any party from running, nor is how the US handles its election what matters. Maduros government banned the opposition parties that had run and won seats in previous elections and jailed their leaders with no credible reasoning other than they were the opposition. This is bad in a vacuum and in context and resulted in an election where the only opposition was approved by the government. The international observers that did observe, including the carter center which was a government talking point to its legitmacy last election, declared the election illegitimate. Probably why you dont hear the government pointing to anyone saying it was legitimate. Further, the countries own voting machine staff declared the counts didnt match and they were fraudulent, so the calls are coming from inside the house. Lastly, youre doing the thing where you take US racial politics and transpose it to other countries. This is both ignorant and racist, full stop. The leader of the government is triracial, the leader of the opposition is triracial. There is no organized racial hatred from the opposition, this is simply a message that has succeeded in holding sway in your mind because it makes such a good narrative to an ignorant american. beer_war posted:I'm coming around to the idea that Americans really do make everything worse. If they only made it worse when they showed up it would be one thing, but they feel they must always show up
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Jan 26, 2019 17:32
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Chuck Boone posted:Or, even better, they could say "We're not going to lend any legitimacy to this vote, the result of which has already been decided by Maduro". Hm, yes, Venezuelan elections are so corrupt that election observers would have found absolutely no evidence of it whatsoever, totally makes sense. Does anyone really believe this whole 'legitimacy' argument? It's literally their job to find election corruption. The only reason not to bring in election observers is to bring doubt to the election results with absolutely no evidence of corruption.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:36
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Barudak posted:The US has no actively functioning laws preventing any party from running, nor is how the US handles its election what matters. Maduros government banned the opposition parties that had run and won seats in previous elections and jailed their leaders with no credible reasoning other than they were the opposition. This is bad in a vacuum and in context and resulted in an election where the only opposition was approved by the government. For everyone else reading: these are the credible reason the opposition parties were banned: https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/11228 posted:In 2014, Lopez is known to have led the so called “exit” plan, which fuelled over 6 months of violent armed protests in the country. As a response to his calls to oust the democratically elected government, Lopez’s supporters erected “barricades” in cities across the country, blocking the free movement of citizens, food and fuel, as well as emergency medical services. They banned paramilitary groups who go around murdering people. This is Guaido's constituents.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:40
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Barudak posted:The US has no actively functioning laws preventing any party from running, https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-68/pdf/STATUTE-68-Pg775.pdf  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 17:40
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uninterrupted posted:If you're going to ignore people who've actually gone to Venezuela you should at least also ignore people who don't live there. Forgive me if I trust the dozens of people I know who spent the vast majority of my their lives in Venezuela more than I trust one person who vacationed there
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Jan 26, 2019 17:41
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Redczar posted:Forgive me if I trust the dozens of people I know who spent the vast majority of my their lives in Venezuela more than I trust one person who vacationed there No but a wealthy gringo was there and things were wonderful! Surely this is the case for everyone?
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Jan 26, 2019 17:43
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'actively' thats a dead letter law that's been unenforced since a 1970's court case.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:44
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Venezuelanalysis is on the level of Fox News. It's not a credible source.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:46
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You mentioned the US as part of your point so i responded to it and I quoted you in full so you cant get rid of it. As for Leopoldo Lopez you are aware that in addition to the easily readable absurdities of the trial and situation, all of which can be found in mere seconds in both Spanish and English, the lead prosecutor themself has fled Venezuela and declared it a sham? Barudak fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 17:47
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uninterrupted posted:For everyone else reading: these are the credible reason the opposition parties were banned: The cancer gun website? loving seriously? Why don’t you loving say you just made it up? It would honestly be more credible
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Jan 26, 2019 17:49
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Chuck Boone posted:Venezuelanalysis is on the level of Fox News. It's not a credible source. Find another news organization willing to state what the opposition was actually banned for instead of handwaving it and we can look at that. The anti-Maduro side always seems woefully short on sources. Pharohman777 posted:'actively' thats a dead letter law that's been unenforced since a 1970's court case. Those goalposts are moving faster that gullible liberals towards yet another doomed US coup of a South American democratically elected government.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:50
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Dont feel too bad about getting burned on this in the thread, Caps Lock Broken did it three pages ago and has recovered to post lies and death cult fanfiction just fine. I know this law exists and that its dead letter since the 1970s, and I put actively enforced in my comment because I knew you would go straight there.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:52
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Pharohman777 posted:'actively' thats a dead letter law that's been unenforced since a 1970's court case. laws don't have expiration dates. the US currently bans members of the communist party from holding public office, and will continue to do so until the law is repealed.
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Jan 26, 2019 17:53
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uninterrupted posted:Find another news organization willing to state what the opposition was actually banned for instead of handwaving it and we can look at that. How about you find me a news organisation that doesn’t loving say people can get cancer via loving satellite? It’s so unbelievably clear that you’ve never struggled a single day in your life on any single aspect
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Jan 26, 2019 17:53
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Barudak posted:Dont feel too bad about getting burned on this in the thread, Caps Lock Broken did it three pages ago and has recovered to post lies and death cult fanfiction just fine. is it or is it not the law of the united states to ban communists from holding office? has the law been repealed? has it been superseded in some way? in what way is it unenforceable, if at all? Malleum fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 17:55
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Furia posted:How about you find me a news organisation that doesn’t loving say people can get cancer via loving satellite? It’s so unbelievably clear that you’ve never struggled a single day in your life on any single aspect Feel free to post some evidence of your complaints against venezuelanalysis instead of vague insinuations. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 17:56
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https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/statersquos-anti-communist-oath-persists-despite-court-ruling/quotequote:OLYMPIA — It has been just shy of 50 years since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a Washington state law barring members of the Communist Party from voting or holding public-sector jobs is unconstitutional. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 17:59
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uninterrupted posted:Feel free to post some evidence of your complaints against venezuelanalysis instead of vague insinuations. Oh I’m glad you asked. “We’re just asking questions guys” quote:https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6716 quote:https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11959 Also you should update your fucker moron bookmarks because even this shithole website calls out Maduro for the burgeois billionare he really is
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Jan 26, 2019 18:02
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Malleum posted:is it or is it not the law of the united states to ban communists from holding office? has the law been repealed? has it been superseded in some way? in what way is it unenforceable, if at all? In 1973, a federal district court in Arizona decided that the act was unconstitutional and Arizona could not keep the party off the ballot in the 1972 general election (Blawis v. Bolin). In 1961, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the act did not bar the party from participating in New York's unemployment insurance system (Communist Party v. Catherwood) However, the Supreme Court of the United States has not ruled on the act's constitutionality. Despite that, no administration has tried to enforce it. The provisions of the act outlawing the party have not been repealed. Nevertheless, the Communist Party USA continues to exist in the 21st century." It would probably be thrown out on first amendment issues.maybe.who knows.no one is eager to stick their dick on this particular hornets nest. It also has nothing to do with the thread discussion so we should probably move on? Wasnt there a unsc informal meeting planned for today? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 18:07
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Oh, and before you go “ You’re not engaging critically with the post guys, PLAY FAIR!!!”, if you posted a Fox news article I could equally tell you to go gently caress yourself with no reading necessary, specially given that they post antivax bullshit
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Jan 26, 2019 18:07
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uninterrupted posted:Find another news organization willing to state what the opposition was actually banned for instead of handwaving it and we can look at that. You realize Venezuelanalysis was literally founded as a government funded propaganda arm right?
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Jan 26, 2019 18:08
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Furia posted:Oh I’m glad you asked. Oh, so the 'cancer gun' part was wild embellishment. These are completely legitimate questions to ask. Russia has been using radioactivity to kill political opponents for decades, the CIA has had a long history of hairbrained schemes to assassinate world leaders, and Maduro like, just survived an assassination attempt via drone. Jump into Operation Mongoose to see all the ridiculous ways they tried to kill Fidel. Do you really think the US killing someone the same way Russia did is crazy? Why do you constantly assume the US has no ill intent towards south america despite its entire history?
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Jan 26, 2019 18:09
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uninterrupted posted:Oh, so the 'cancer gun' part was wild embellishment. Oh yeah that was Maduro, apologies. The whole thing is so loving stupid it all kind of runs together Never had anybody with cancer in your life, have you? e: oh, and I’m going to want a couple citations on how this would even be possible. Keep the Castro ones to yourself; unlike you, I haven’t forgotten the actual topic of discussion Furia fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 18:10
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/edit: ^^
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Jan 26, 2019 18:11
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Furia posted:Oh yeah that was Maduro, apologies. The whole thing is so loving stupid it all kind of runs together https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_involving_radioactive_substances under Murder and attempted murder. Are you arguing that radiation can't kill, or that the US would never try to assassinate Chavez with it? Because if you're saying there's no solid evidence that's what happened, well, yeah, no one in your quotes said there is.
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Jan 26, 2019 18:18
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Pharohman777 posted:https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/statersquos-anti-communist-oath-persists-despite-court-ruling/quote LOL at the last paragraph saying “except in the places where it’s still a law it’s not a law anymore”. Fake edit: I mean, you’re more or less correct, but you still lose the argument on a technicality. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 18:18
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uninterrupted posted:Because if you're saying there's no solid evidence that's what happened, well, yeah, no one in your quotes said there is. Oh, so this news organisation reports without evidence? Cool, interesting. Most organisations are reputable enough not to do that. I guess that if that’s the case, then this: uninterrupted posted:For everyone else reading: these are the credible reason the opposition parties were banned: Is loving bullshit as well. Good job rear end in a top hat! ps: shut the gently caress up gringo e: and none of the murders involved cancer. You’re on fire! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 18:24
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Sidenote: anyone got a transcript of the Guaido speech from the other day?
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Jan 26, 2019 18:26
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Germany bans the Nazi party from running. Time to overthrow the German govt I guess
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Jan 26, 2019 18:27
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uninterrupted posted:Sidenote: anyone got a transcript of the Guaido speech from the other day? Shut the gently caress up gringo
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Jan 26, 2019 18:27
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Furia posted:Oh, so this news organisation reports without evidence? Cool, interesting. Most organisations are reputable enough not to do that. Most news organizations have been arguing the last Venezuelan elections were rigged, and there's no evidence of that since the election observers were asked to stay from Venezuela by hard-right opposition parties who light their opponents on fire and stockpile weaponry. Discussing the possibility of a possible Alexander Litvinenko-style assassination of Chavez, when the CIA has killed numerous leftist south american leaders, is perfectly valid. Furia posted:ps: shut the gently caress up gringo hope your dad's repossessed golf course texts you back, bro (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 18:31
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Honestly, it would be more surprising if the US hadn't murdered Chavez
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Jan 26, 2019 18:33
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uninterrupted posted:Most news organizations have been arguing the last Venezuelan elections were rigged Furia posted:Shut the gently caress up gringo (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 26, 2019 18:35
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Malleum posted:laws don't have expiration dates. the US currently bans members of the communist party from holding public office, and will continue to do so until the law is repealed. They also still ban foreign current or former communist party members from coming into the country, which caused a lot of comedy these past 25 years when attempting to poach eastern european scientists or engineers.
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Jan 26, 2019 18:35
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