Navy Thread: SUBJ/TRANSMISSION OF STEAMY BITS//

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Navy Thread: SUBJ/TRANSMISSION OF STEAMY BITS//

babyeatingpsychopath: Oct 28, 2000; Forum Veteran

DownByTheWooter posted:

i can not, under colorado state law 420-69pnv agree with your recommendations to someone traveling to Naples if you don't mention Pompeii let's not be silly here I don't want mueller coming after me

Thank you. I'll throw in my 2c and say Herculanum is possibly cooler than Pompeii, but I haven't been to Pompeii in 5 or so years, and I know they've done a BUNCH of stuff recently.

# ? Jan 26, 2019 17:01

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 15, 2024 09:10

US Berder Patrol: Jul 11, 2006; oorah

Herculaneum:Ercolano::Latin:Italian

# ? Jan 26, 2019 17:34

Serjeant Buzfuz: Dec 5, 2009

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Thank you. I'll throw in my 2c and say Herculanum is possibly cooler than Pompeii, but I haven't been to Pompeii in 5 or so years, and I know they've done a BUNCH of stuff recently.

Herculanum was great and is much less crowded than Pompeii. The audio tours at Pompeii are really good too, I'd recommend getting one at the entrance.

# ? Jan 26, 2019 20:24

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

DownByTheWooter posted:

I was stationed in Naples for two years
generally, the city is a real poo poo hole, advice to not really go bar-hopping is pretty good. You definitely can't be drunk around the city center at night, and maybe it's better if you don't be there at all at night. There are some neat castles and piazzas around there, but even during the day it is all pretty run down. Napoli is the kind of place where everybody's apartment has steel shutters that have no means of opening from the outside on all of their windows and porch doors, and there is garbage everywhere during even the best of times.

That said, Get a real pizza, from a place where they burn wood in their oven. Nothing else will do for the Neapolitans, so it isn't exactly hard to find. Buffalo mozzarella is another pretty important local specialty and will be the first course of any proper supper in the immediate region. There were a couple of sit-down restaurants that were pretty popular with troops there, a place we always just called "mama's" in Lago Patria which I liked and Country House (maybe?) which I didn't like as much. Ideally, try to get a sunday or holiday dinner at someone's house -- lots of restaraunt owners in Italy are 100% without shame about ripping off tourists lmao

See Pompeii. Fuckin amazing ruins, and if you like that, Ercolano is the site of another, better-preserved, less famous set of ruins contemporary to the destruction of Pompeii and the seaside neighborhood there, Portici, is a good place to look for pizza or seafood restaurants

Sorrento is a good recommend, but if you get to there, you're right by the Amalfi coast, which is insanely beautiful as well -- if you're looking at a map, it's the region from Positano east to Amalfi.
Circumvesuviana train will take you to Pompeii and Sorrento

If you care about Pompeii, go to the museum in Naples where they put all the cool stuff and also porn.

Naples is dirty, but there are still a lot of great cultural things there during the day.
And also real pizza holy poo poo it's great.

# ? Jan 27, 2019 04:59

Pandasmores: May 8, 2009

Stultus Maximus posted:

And also real pizza holy poo poo it's great.

loving this. It's god drat amazing.

# ? Jan 30, 2019 05:03

Othin: Nov 20, 2002; Hair Elf

I was there TAD last year and followed all the advice from the thread to my great benefit. The only thing I'd add is that the Alibus was so much easier for moving between the airport and central station (where our hotel was). It was like four or five euro and you can just buy your ticket on the bus. It has its own lanes so it was also way faster (and less sketch) than a taxi (and easier to show proof for on travel report).

I also booked a semi-private van tour for the Almafi coast on Viator and it was just awesome. The van picked us up at our hotel and took us to a few cities along the coast and a spot for lunch. The lunch spot was so so but everything else was awesome and we had more than enough to see the sites. We didn't have to deal with catching a train and a public bus so we were able to really enjoy our time and not worry about trying to get back.

The last thing I'd add is that on the last Sunday of every month the museums in Rome (maybe elsewhere too?) are free so it's pretty crazy. We still booked a walking audio tour which basically turned into front of the line privileges which ended up being worth it since 3098430926820968 people were in line for the Coliseum.

# ? Jan 30, 2019 19:57

Nick Soapdish: Apr 27, 2008

From the latest Proceedings, I never worked for the man, but I do agree that the IDC/IWC has been a terrible boondoggle for intel. Cannot speak to the other communities.

Navy Information Warfare: A Decade of Indulging a False Analogy

quote:

�A standard wholly false may have its error demonstrated with comparative ease, but no servitude is more hopeless than that of intelligent submission to an idea formally correct, yet incomplete. It has all the vicious misleading of a half-truth unqualified by appreciation of modifying conditions��

- Alfred Thayer Mahan

The most insidious feature of the Navy�s thinking on information warfare (IW) is that it is partially correct. Its most dangerous consequence, which senior leaders appear not to appreciate or openly admit, is that weaving IW�s �half-truths� into the fabric of our force diminishes our prospects in combat.

An Unrestricted Line of Reasoning

No one could reasonably disagree with the call in the 8 January Proceedings Today article for a proper mission analysis of "what IW is and what it is not." It is telling, however, that the author does not await its results before recommending that IW officers have command at sea. Of course, one might ask why the Navy did not seek to understand IW more completely before naming a community after it, relegating naval intelligence to a conceptual subcategory of it, and integrating it into the composite warfare commander (CWC) concept. But better late than never.

A 2013 study by the Center for Naval Analysis came close. It got little play because it splashed cold seawater on the idea that the information-heavy activities gathered under OPNAV N2N6 in 2009 constituted a new doctrinal category of war fighting�an assertion that was sold to leaders and has underwritten the meteoric rise of IW�s stock.

The idea of IW officers becoming unrestricted line (URL) isn�t new. Until recently, however, that prospect was most often cited by IW critics to prove that comparisons between IW and the traditional warfare areas, without caveats, led to absurdities. Now, after just a few years of the IW community applying its new �Information Warfare � moniker literally (it was first named the Information Dominance Corps), with little or no resistance from the larger Navy, a growing number of smart and experienced IW professionals are convincing themselves they should be eligible to command maneuver forces at sea.

Those who favor the IW community's pursuit of warrior status tend to see that goal as affirmation of its importance. Those who question the agenda have no interest in affirmation. For us, the IW community has been therapy for an inferiority complex we never had. The salient issue is not whether IW matches the importance or cachet of air, surface, or submarine warfare, but whether IW matches the nature of those warfare areas enough to treat it identically. Are they sufficiently alike to apply the same templates of doctrine, organization, training, and so forth?

No. If naval warfare areas are pillars, IW is horizontal support. It is mostly about providing information and recommendations across warfare areas; only a narrow slice is comprehensible as employing forces within its own warfare area. The Navy needs a crisp division of labor to excel at both. Breaking the IW community back into elements that can optimize for one or the other would be immensely helpful in this regard.

Certainly, IW professionals are closely integrated into operations�they make consequential decisions, and some IW activities bear alluring analogies to maneuver warfare. But analogy is not equivalence. The Navy's defining mission is dominance in a physical domain. As long as we remain a naval service, actions in the informational domain will be means toward that end. Leaders forged on bridges or in cockpits will have different qualities than leaders forged at keyboards. Reserving command of physical forces for those with the most experience operating them is a wise approximation.

The blurring of this distinction is the IW community's congenital flaw. It has us exaggerating similarities between IW and maneuver warfare. Blinding us to the differences. Cramming staff functions into command containers. Manipulating force structure to create units for IW officers to lead. Writing doctrine that glosses over the details of how information fits into naval warfighting but, miraculously, always suits the bureaucratic interests of OPNAV N2N6. Our prime directive has flipped from enabling an operational commander into being one. We have lost our objectivity in the exchange.

IW in the Fleet�Or Against the Fleet?

The most alarming advance of this pathology is the information warfare commander (IWC) afloat position in carrier strike groups (CSGs). The apex of IW at sea today is managing the force�s visibility to adversary sensors. The IW community casts it as an information-centric enterprise. But it is better understood as a set of dynamic constraints on maneuver, sensors, and communications imposed on tactical commanders operating their forces in the physical domains.

Selecting the trade-offs between minimizing signature and maximizing potency is perhaps the most crucial decision commanders make, and it necessarily impacts all warfare areas. This is why CWC doctrine sensibly forbids group commanders from delegating decisions on signature management to a subordinate warfare commander. By itself, this ought to be a fatal blow to the entire concept of an IWC afloat. Granted, a CSG needs a senior officer afloat to drive signature management. But that officer�s proper role is to give recommendations and monitor compliance, not to seize command territory.

Pushing IW commanders to the fleet when its actual need is for senior experts fills a knowledge gap but erects a pitfall for unity of command. The root problem is the taxonomical sloppiness of defining an informational domain simultaneously with physical ones, in the context of a CWC concept that depends on clear delineations of authorities and responsibilities. The intrinsic overlaps, ambiguities, and contrivances are why there has always been something not-quite-right with the IWC. There is a valid coordination role in the CWC construct, under the QUEBEC callsign, for a limited subset of information-centric activities. But QUEBEC doesn�t have to be a warfare commander . Tactical command-and-control is an unforgiving environment for honorary titles.

Other potential command duties for an IWC evaporate under similar examination. They either do not require a warfare commander to direct or rightly belong to others. But the IW community needs a major command equivalent, and it is determined to impose that requirement on the fleet�a disturbing inversion of priorities.

Effects of this error are difficult to spot now, particularly if one is uninterested in looking for them. CSG post-deployment briefs are generally supportive of the new IWC/N2N6 afloat model, although they paint a picture of teams doing their best to implement it rather than reaping its benefits. Conversations behind closed doors tend to be more critical. Regardless, commanders who value the presence of a senior officer focused on IW are apt to overlook their embellished job descriptions. The inaccuracy of an IWC in a CWC organization might only be discernable under the speed and stress of actual combat.

A Point of No Return

At a deeper level, the consequences of the IW community�s preoccupations with having operational �command� and producing flag officers with experience that aligns with the OPNAV N2N6 portfolio likely are years ahead. Career paths are already burdened with bizarre cross-discipline assignments to produce IW generalists that OPNAV N2N6 needs but the fleet doesn�t. New contortions to produce credible tactical commanders would further distract the community from its proper focus on the informational side of the warfighting decision loop. We will soon be passing the torch to a generation of intelligence, meteorology, and information technology professionals who see their core competencies as something to escape rather than embrace. By the time the institutional damage is visible, it will be irreversible.

The awkward set of proficiencies we have been forced to call �information warfare� is undeniably vital. We can easily imagine the contribution of a meteorologist, for example, leading to victory or defeat in battle against a peer adversary. Still, Navy and other national security leaders should step back, take a deep breath, and carefully scrutinize the daisy chain of Navy IW logic that leads to meteorologists commanding carrier strike groups.

Captain Henry Stephenson is a naval intelligence officer currently serving as director for intelligence (J2) for U.S. Transportation Command. His previous assignments include assistant chief of staff for intelligence (N2) at Carrier Strike Group Eight and at U.S. Fifth Fleet.

# ? Feb 1, 2019 03:34

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

https://twitter.com/mrdougthebrony/status/1090472166150172673

# ? Feb 2, 2019 10:32

CMD598: Apr 12, 2013

It's not encrypted, it's just some MC with some stickers waiting for the day he gets to pick the schedule.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 16:14

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

CMD598 posted:

It's not encrypted, it's just some MC with some stickers waiting for the day he gets to pick the schedule.

Read the dvd. It says on the top line that it is an encrypted dvd.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 16:36

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Those are definitely encrypted and require a special player. Also they expire.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 22:48

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Nick Soapdish posted:

From the latest Proceedings, I never worked for the man, but I do agree that the IDC/IWC has been a terrible boondoggle for intel. Cannot speak to the other communities.

Navy Information Warfare: A Decade of Indulging a False Analogy

So, I was on an IWC staff my last tour before I retired. I don't think IW should be given command of maneuver units but it makes a whole lot of sense to have an IWC as part of the CWC construct. It worked extremely well in our strike group but we had a really talented staff (present company excluded of course).

I lol at the quoted article though because by and large Intel officers are really butthurt about the whole IWC concept and have resisted the idea since the word go.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 00:42

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

vulturesrow posted:

So, I was on an IWC staff my last tour before I retired. I don't think IW should be given command of maneuver units but it makes a whole lot of sense to have an IWC as part of the CWC construct. It worked extremely well in our strike group but we had a really talented staff (present company excluded of course).

I lol at the quoted article though because by and large Intel officers are really butthurt about the whole IWC concept and have resisted the idea since the word go.

Why do you think Quebec is a commander rather than a coordinator?

# ? Feb 3, 2019 02:31

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

vulturesrow posted:

I lol at the quoted article though because by and large Intel officers are really butthurt about the whole IWC concept and have resisted the idea since the word go.

I did/thought the exact same thing.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 02:57

CMD598: Apr 12, 2013

Mr. Nice! posted:

Read the dvd. It says on the top line that it is an encrypted dvd.

Joke
-------
Your head

# ? Feb 3, 2019 10:38

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

CMD598 posted:

Joke
-------
Your head

I still don�t get it. Also MCs aren�t on smallboys. IC types own aft-IC and are responsible for broadcasting movies/satellite tv throughout the ship.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 14:57

pmchem: Jan 22, 2010

The joke is that essentially every movie DVD ever made is encrypted. Ya'll might've heard of a little thing called deCSS:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Scramble_System

# ? Feb 3, 2019 15:08

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

pmchem posted:

The joke is that essentially every movie DVD ever made is encrypted. Ya'll might've heard of a little thing called deCSS:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Scramble_System

Different type of encryption, and I still don�t think that was his joke. DVDs sent to ships aren�t just region coded or done with standard dvd copy protection encryption. It�s a step above.

I thought the joke was that an MC was a brony and had just put classified/encrypted stickers on his favorite mlp movie.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 15:16

pmchem: Jan 22, 2010

well, I was laughing at the encryption marking regardless

# ? Feb 3, 2019 15:18

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

The movies that get sent to ships are sometimes pre-release things. They have an extra encryption level to protect street dates and all that. And like MML said, they have expiration dates.

We actually had our DTS casrepped on last ship for a while because it was down for over 8 months out of the year due to equipment failure. That bullet stayed red for so long.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 15:47

The Valley Stared: Nov 4, 2009

Mr. Nice! posted:

I still don�t get it. Also MCs aren�t on smallboys. IC types own aft-IC and are responsible for broadcasting movies/satellite tv throughout the ship.

If the Hamilton is going out on deployment or a major exercise they might get one. Those are the the only times I've ever had an MC on my DDGs.

And your EMO sucked if they couldn't get that fixed. They're always supposed to know people and get things moving.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 18:08

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

It wasn�t anyone on board�s fault. It was literally a sourcing issue with a particular piece.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 18:45

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Stultus Maximus posted:

Why do you think Quebec is a commander rather than a coordinator?

Honestly I can't every remember what the doctrinal reason was for creating the IWC. Why I think it works boils down to this: the stuff that the IWC does is really important in modern warfare and at the same time will be given short shrift by the other warfare commanders unless they are forced by having an IWC at the table as an equal.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 05:29

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

vulturesrow posted:

Why I think it works boils down to this: the stuff that the IWC does is really important in modern warfare and at the same time will be given short shrift by the other warfare commanders unless they are forced by having an IWC at the table as an equal.

Totally agree

# ? Feb 5, 2019 00:01

Melthir: Dec 29, 2009; I need to go scrap some money together cause my avatar is just sad.

gently caress two coasties dead in a week in d17. Both should have been easily prevented.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 01:02

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Enjoy more liberty restrictions 7th Fleet.

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/naked-drunken-sailor-found-in-japanese-home-reports-say-1.567043

# ? Feb 5, 2019 03:56

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

vulturesrow posted:

Enjoy more liberty restrictions 7th Fleet.

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/naked-drunken-sailor-found-in-japanese-home-reports-say-1.567043

Eh, the headline doesn't say "in the room of a 12 year old girl" so this ain't poo poo.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 03:58

The Valley Stared: Nov 4, 2009

I haven't heard of any restrictions from my friends still out there. Unless there's another really big ARI in 7th fleet over the next few weeks, I don't think that there will be any. Maybe increased patrols in the Honch and American Alley areas in the mean time though.

All I know is my friend is going to be pissed if he can't go to our favorite bar during his last few weeks in Yokosuka. He deserves some good beer before he leaves.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 04:18

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

Maybe the restrictions will be beneficial for my outfit, since last time we were under 7th Fleet control our triad got fired

# ? Feb 5, 2019 04:37

Kawasaki Nun: Jul 16, 2001; by Reene

Why would any country let Americans around their nation without liberty restrictions at this point?

# ? Feb 5, 2019 08:22

CMD598: Apr 12, 2013

Meh, it's Atsugi. poo poo like that happens uncommonly. They're probably just happy to make the news there.

Now, okinawa on the other hand...

# ? Feb 5, 2019 10:54

The Valley Stared: Nov 4, 2009

Kawasaki Nun posted:

Why would any country let Americans around their nation without liberty restrictions at this point?

Because money.

Just before I went to Japan in 2016, there was a really long and extremely strict liberty restriction in Japan because of several incidents. After it had gone on for a few weeks, the mayor of Yokosuka apparently talked with the base CO because the local businesses were dying without sailor patronage.

Even just before I left, I was hearing rumblings that the mayor was going to go talk with the base CO again because while the restrictions weren't as bad as in 2016, the fact that we couldn't drink out in town still hurt a lot of businesses.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 15:14

CMD598: Apr 12, 2013

It's always been my guess that liberty restrictions are more about what USFJ/7th fleet thinks they need to do rather than what locals want or even expect.

Just like I'm sure Busan is super happy about not getting those carrier port calls anymore or Atsugi/Yokohama having a thousand less people dropping cash off base.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 06:39

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

CMD598 posted:

It's always been my guess that liberty restrictions are more about what USFJ/7th fleet thinks they need to do rather than what locals want or even expect.

It's all about showing that you've addressed the issue.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 06:42

CMD598: Apr 12, 2013

Problem: Dude does X

Solution: Do Y to dude

Problem addressed?

# ? Feb 6, 2019 07:51

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

https://amp.businessinsider.com/us-navy-admits-it-cant-defeat-torpedos-thatll-sink-aircraft-carriers-2019-2

I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 08:26

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

vulturesrow posted:

https://amp.businessinsider.com/us-navy-admits-it-cant-defeat-torpedos-thatll-sink-aircraft-carriers-2019-2

I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.

Oh Christ this article pisses me off and is a bad summary of poo poo.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 08:49

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

CMD598 posted:

It's always been my guess that liberty restrictions are more about what USFJ/7th fleet thinks they need to do rather than what locals want or even expect.

Just like I'm sure Busan is super happy about not getting those carrier port calls anymore or Atsugi/Yokohama having a thousand less people dropping cash off base.

Lol, yeah. Years ago my carrier pulled into Busan right after USFK implemented some draconian restrictions. The little time we got off the ship, we were passing all these bar and club owners who looked like they were about to cry.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 12:38

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Oh Christ this article pisses me off and is a bad summary of poo poo.

How so?

# ? Feb 6, 2019 15:14

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 15, 2024 09:10

PneumonicBook: Sep 26, 2007; Do you like our owl?; Ultra Carp

Thanks for all the naples suggestions everyone. Found out I'll be supporting the C4I office so I'll actually be doing (close to) in rate stuff! I was worried I'd be checking IDs in 120 degree weather.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 16:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Navy Thread: SUBJ/TRANSMISSION OF STEAMY BITS//

«‹›475 »