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i want to say holy poo poo how do you gently caress up the punisher but theres been 3 - 4 cracks at him now, and theyre all remarkably bad in their unique ways want a spin off where dolph lundgren, thomas jane, ray stevenson and jon bernthal all team up
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Jan 24, 2019 12:39
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Into the Punishverse
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Jan 24, 2019 12:57
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While we're at it, we'll age the Lundgren version to current day and he's roughly old enough to pass for the Ennis run of Punisher MAX. Two for one deal.
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Jan 24, 2019 13:25
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Sodomy Hussein posted:You don't like thing! How dare you! Only post if you agree with me! No dude I get it but you’ve watched 130 hours of Marvel Netflix and seemingly hated every second of it. For someone who constantly reiterated how long and drawn out each season was, you buckled down and kept subjecting yourself to content you hated and never seemed even prepared to want to like. If you did like any of it, that comes across in exactly zero of your posts. I don’t get the complaints about the seasons being too long, but I’m also an adult who enjoys dialogue and character development and world-building so I don’t mind when 25-30 minutes go by before a punch is thrown. The fight scenes will always be there to punch up the pacing, and I liked all the characters except Misty, who basically feels like the worst cop in Harlem. I also only watched the first 4 eps of defenders and skipped Iron Fist and just got so bored of Jessica Jones very early. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 13:41
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The real problem with these shows is that no one answers a question, they just tell an unrelated story. Every time. I still enjoy them overall but it's definitely a very overused dialogue crutch that I find bothering me more and more as it takes up more of every season. Charitably it's a symptom of Netflix being forced to pad the seasons to 13 episodes, less charitably it's just poor writers that think they're better than they are at crafting compelling dialogue.
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Jan 24, 2019 16:07
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I'm curious why they just didn't just do some "minor villain of the week" stuff to pad out to 13 episodes? A lot of people hated the Karen origin story in Daredevil S3 but to me it was at least a nice change of pace from "hero tries to solve problem using elaborate fight scene, creates unintended consequences that make problem worse and becomes increasingly distanced from support system" that are the backbone of Netflix Marvel.
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Jan 24, 2019 18:48
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Wtf is up with that over the top CGI blood splatter in episode 9? Or is everyone supposed to be suffering from absurd hypertension?
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Jan 24, 2019 18:51
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Gravity Cant Apple posted:The real problem with these shows is that no one answers a question, they just tell an unrelated story. Every time. I still enjoy them overall but it's definitely a very overused dialogue crutch that I find bothering me more and more as it takes up more of every season. Its the other way around. The writers want shorter seasons but Netflix wants the padded run.
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Jan 24, 2019 18:54
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Thundercracker posted:Its the other way around. The writers want shorter seasons but Netflix wants the padded run. I thought the Disney contract forced them to produce 13 episodes?
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Jan 24, 2019 18:57
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I’d rather have 3-4 deep interwoven storylines than 10 non-sequitur episodes (this week it’s a beetle man!) with the first and last two episodes attempting to wrap it all up. Monster of the week works in a 22 episode season like Smallville or Supernatural, I think it wouldn’t work in the Netflix format.
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Jan 24, 2019 19:01
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Bust Rodd posted:No dude I get it but you’ve watched 130 hours of Marvel Netflix and seemingly hated every second of it. For someone who constantly reiterated how long and drawn out each season was, you buckled down and kept subjecting yourself to content you hated and never seemed even prepared to want to like. If you did like any of it, that comes across in exactly zero of your posts. What's worse, reading someone's opinion about this show, or posters having to interrupt their homerism to claim that they just can't understand the widespread criticism and make posts about posting that they don't even read in the first place? Oh I mean sorry, I definitely 100% hate this show and have nothing good to say about it because I don't like... dialogue?  Netflix Marvel makes writing clear stories about minorities and under-represented groups in media (women, veterans, the disabled, African-Americans) seem hard. Meanwhile Black Panther, "What if the Kingdom of Lesotho was Afro-futurist Shangri-La," is Best Picture nominee. There's lots of good in Punisher, for example, like depictions of veteran PTSD support groups that make that experience accessible and show you what it's like to be an American untouchable. Or an Iranian immigrant character who doesn't have the character trait of doing things Extremely Iranishly. So it's a shame when the Punisher drops more or less all of that and makes the Netflix Marvel mistake of trying to make a sympathetic sociopath on the flimsiest of pretenses. Predictably, that bizarre and lovely plotline takes up half the show, and even with 13 episodes has to essentially cut it short. "Billy fills his cult's guns full of blanks and gets half of them murdered so he can make Frank feel bad. Frank thought he murdered a bunch of hookers, and probably could have, but he's 100% over it now because someone told him he didn't do it." Madani gets involved with an utterly redundant police character whose name escapes me. No crime is ever solved by any police character, they just decide they're along for the ride and Madani's arc ends when she fails to recruit Frank as a CIA hitman (again) in e13. Good loving lord. The acting is all top notch, but you can only listen to two characters monologuing on each other (not having a real dialogue between characters written as humans) about the nature of man and justice so many times, that number ideally being zero--it's a visual medium, show, don't tell. Frank scaring the poo poo out of his ward like a nightmare abuser is great. Eight million characters rotating through to tell Frank he's afraid to care about stuff and maybe law should prevail, as it never does ever, provides time to check your phone during the episode. Meanwhile you have two would-have-been compelling plots become completely disconnected from each other during all this incessant navel-gazing. Name Change fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 19:51
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IS THIS BLUE?! I THINK IT'S BLUE! NEHHH!
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Jan 24, 2019 20:09
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Sodomy Hussein posted:you can only listen to two characters monologuing on each other (not having a real dialogue between characters written as humans) about the nature of man and justice so many times
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Jan 24, 2019 20:23
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qirex posted:This captures a feeling I've had about these shows, even the people who are supposed to be friends constantly talk at each other. I think Jessica Jones and Luke Cage seasons 1 had the least amount of this and Iron Fist s1 had the most [and that's why it's the worst]. I feel the opposite though. I think a lot of the strongest Netflix moments were when two great actors got paired off and exchanged interesting dialogue to break away and change tone from the fight scenes. Most of them avoided the trap of simple black and white morality tales too. I'd say the overall the Netflix shows have delivered more good than bad and that their highest points rival anything put to the big screen in the MCU. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 23:43
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Gravity Cant Apple posted:I thought the Disney contract forced them to produce 13 episodes? Yeah, per the reporting, Netflix wanted shorter seasons, which Marvel agreed to for Iron Fist S2 but apparently not for anything else.
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Jan 24, 2019 23:45
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BiggerBoat posted:I feel the opposite though. I think a lot of the strongest Netflix moments were when two great actors got paired off and exchanged interesting dialogue to break away and change tone from the fight scenes. Most of them avoided the trap of simple black and white morality tales too. I'd say the overall the Netflix shows have delivered more good than bad and that their highest points rival anything put to the big screen in the MCU. Oh by the way, you were right about the viewership. https://www.businessinsider.com/netflixs-the-punisher-viewing-down-40-analysis-2019-1 Interestingly at a 40% indicated drop, this represents a low drop compared to the other shows. The cancellations absolutely killed overall interest in these shows.
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Jan 25, 2019 01:36
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Man, other than skipping past a few repetitive "crazy Russo" scenes, I thought Punisher was great. They could've probably just excised the entire Russo plotline and been fine, though. It wasn't bad, just not really necessary. The fight choreo was on POINT, though, and that's a hill I will die on.
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Jan 25, 2019 02:25
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Sodomy Hussein posted:So it's a shame when the Punisher drops more or less all of that and makes the Netflix Marvel mistake of trying to make a sympathetic sociopath on the flimsiest of pretenses. Predictably, that bizarre and lovely plotline takes up half the show, and even with 13 episodes has to essentially cut it short. "Billy fills his cult's guns full of blanks and gets half of them murdered so he can make Frank feel bad. Frank thought he murdered a bunch of hookers, and probably could have, but he's 100% over it now because someone told him he didn't do it." Madani gets involved with an utterly redundant police character whose name escapes me. No crime is ever solved by any police character, they just decide they're along for the ride and Madani's arc ends when she fails to recruit Frank as a CIA hitman (again) in e13. Good loving lord. I don't know if you're watching the right shows if you're looking for the police to solve crimes. That's kinda the point of superhero shows, only the Punisher or Daredevil or whoever can stop the bad guys. And it's not true that the police characters solve literally no crimes. Madani solved the crime of who tried to stab her, Madani, in the face. Then she pushed her out a window.
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Jan 25, 2019 03:02
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The second most bittersweet thing about all this aside from the ending is the fact that now those same writers will go on to then draw false equivalence to people who've murdered someone for selling child porn or running a human trafficking ring or running a protection ring and also you for having killed someone which makes you no better than them.
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Jan 25, 2019 03:21
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Phenotype posted:I don't know if you're watching the right shows if you're looking for the police to solve crimes. That's kinda the point of superhero shows, only the Punisher or Daredevil or whoever can stop the bad guys. And it's not true that the police characters solve literally no crimes. Madani solved the crime of who tried to stab her, Madani, in the face. Then she pushed her out a window. Madani struggling to subdue a loving psychiatrist is still the funniest part of the season for me. How bad are you at your job that this woman is even a threat to you hot drat.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:30
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LeafyOrb posted:Madani struggling to subdue a loving psychiatrist is still the funniest part of the season for me. I just popped in here and this is contextless to me since I'm only on episode 4 but Madani is a cop and cops are very weak and shoot unarmed naked people outta self-defense, so it checks out.
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Jan 25, 2019 21:18
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The psychiatrist also had the primal rage strength of a crazy person
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Jan 26, 2019 07:14
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All they needed was one scene of the doc mma training. I'm sure they could have squeezed it in somewhere between the endless hours of talking about feelings.
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Jan 26, 2019 08:05
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Dias posted:I just popped in here and this is contextless to me since I'm only on episode 4 but Madani is a cop and cops are very weak and shoot unarmed naked people outta self-defense, so it checks out. The Punishers superpower is being white.
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Jan 26, 2019 08:17
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Well I finished the season and have to agree with all the comments about the Russo subplot feeling superfluous and detracting from the Pilgrim storyline. That said, I was a big fan of how it wrapped up with Frank just walking in, shooting Russo in the middle of one of his endless speeches/diatribes, then just walking away. I really dug the end of the first season and even though I knew it was unlikely, I had kind of hoped they'd be a one-and-done and actually leave Frank with some tiny sliver of hope for maybe moving on with his life. There's nothing like that (the opposite in fact) at the end of the second season, and it's unlikely there'll be a third. I really wonder what an 8 episode season that was basically just the Pilgrim storyline would have been like, I certainly found him a far more interesting character than Russo.
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Jan 26, 2019 13:03
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Jerusalem posted:Well I finished the season and have to agree with all the comments about the Russo subplot feeling superfluous and detracting from the Pilgrim storyline. That said, I was a big fan of how it wrapped up with Frank just walking in, shooting Russo in the middle of one of his endless speeches/diatribes, then just walking away. I feel like it's similar to the end of Luke Cage -- Frank is accepting what he thinks is his inevitable fate. Both could use one more season to allow the characters to elevate themselves above it, but I'm also fine with where they ended up.
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Jan 26, 2019 16:25
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nooneofconsequence posted:All they needed was one scene of the doc mma training. I'm sure they could have squeezed it in somewhere between the endless hours of talking about feelings. Except she was limping around the rest of the season and had a spine full of screws, making the scene even more ridiculous.
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Jan 26, 2019 18:34
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Well they sort of HAD to be evenly matched, otherwise it's pretty insanely unprofessional to just throw someone out a window. It had to be some sort of OH poo poo life or death thing otherwise she'd just be bullying a crippled woman then tossing her out like a joke. Realistically the FBI lady should have been hit in the head with something heavy or been shot but just winged in the arm early in the fight, SOMETHING to even the odds but still making her obviously more capable, if it weren't for the injury. Maybe Doc gets her hands on the gun a 2nd time and that's what necessitates pushing her out a window? ah well who cares
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Jan 26, 2019 18:45
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blue lives matter detective guy ftw
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Jan 26, 2019 20:40
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tetrapyloctomy posted:I feel like it's similar to the end of Luke Cage -- Frank is accepting what he thinks is his inevitable fate. Both could use one more season to allow the characters to elevate themselves above it, but I'm also fine with where they ended up. God I wish that Luke Cage season 2 had ended with Mariah making her big speech about Harlem's Paradise being a corrupting influence she would use to bring Luke down to her level, and then Luke had just said,"Thanks!" and tore it down and turned it into a community center
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Jan 26, 2019 22:16
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Man if you asked me what his next role would be my answer absolutely would not have been 'Oh, obviously Jon Berenthal's gonna be in the new episodes of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.' My guess would've been maybe he'll eventually show up in a future episode of Riverdale as part of a dream sequence or something.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:05
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RareAcumen posted:Man if you asked me what his next role would be my answer absolutely would not have been 'Oh, obviously Jon Berenthal's gonna be in the new episodes of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.' I'm still holding out hope for a boxing movie with him as a boxer who is supposed to throw a fight, and his retired boxer dad (Fred Ward) is trying to convince him not to.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:07
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A friend of mine said it best: "The whole point of the Punisher is that he's constantly shooting people." Neither season of this show is that. Season budget or whatever is a shame but it's kind of weird they even made this? Especially after the complete over-the-top insane and on point violence of Punisher showing up in S2 of DD.
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Jan 28, 2019 16:50
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New punisher was really good when it was good but also bloated. So many filler scenes. Would love a third season with Barracuda as the antagonist.
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Jan 29, 2019 18:33
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GeorgieMordor posted:A friend of mine said it best: "The whole point of the Punisher is that he's constantly shooting people." The best regarded stories the Punisher ever had have large stretches of time where he's not shooting people. Because constantly shooting people is loving boring. You need setup and payoff beyond "Here's some mooks, they are dead, here are some more mooks, dead now, also here is a big mook, ooooh he's tough, wait now he's dead".
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Jan 29, 2019 20:20
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In DD2, he was doing that. The two seasons of his show portray him trying to go back to being something other than a murder machine once he's eliminated everyone involved with his personal tragedy. In season 1 there were just loose ends he hadn't been aware of that he had to go back and kill; season 2 showed him just flat out enjoying hurting bad people even though they had absolutely nothing to do with him, and coming to grips with that fact. It's clear I'm in the minority as far as thinking they handled it pretty well in season 2, though season 1 was missing some action beats in the later half.
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Jan 29, 2019 21:06
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It would have been nice to see Frank at least try to be a normal person again instead of straight-up abandoning his girlfriend and her not-insignificant medical bill from being nearly shot to death.
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Jan 29, 2019 21:15
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I'm sure her part-time bartender job has excellent insurance.
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Jan 29, 2019 21:23
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Sodomy Hussein posted:It would have been nice to see Frank at least try to be a normal person again instead of straight-up abandoning his girlfriend and her not-insignificant medical bill from being nearly shot to death. his overriding arc in season 2 is that he's not a normal person, and that when he tries to be one he fails in ways which negatively affect the people around him, so you're basically saying it would have been nice to watch a different show about a different character e: having said that, the least he could do is give her some of his magic-healing-powers blood
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Jan 29, 2019 21:24
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I definitely WANTED to see him go back and see Beth and have it be OK, but that's like hoping Steve Rogers doesn't crash the airplane into the ocean. Also, his not entirely unsound logic is that that only happened to her because he got involved, so staying away makes sense as far as that goes.
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Jan 30, 2019 01:14
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