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Conspiratiorist posted:Carbon capture is last in the list of things we need to promote and implement, because while it's ultimately necessary to actually achieve negative emissions, it's highly inefficient and even dangerous by potentially serving as an "enabler" element of sorts for our current socioeconomic structures. You know - "why change, when we can just engineer a solution that lets us keep emitting?" Could you elaborate that point? How inefficient is inefficient? Because those numbers Son of Rodney posted:Some working plants already suck 1000s of tons out of the atmosphere at prices below 300 usd per Ton. Expected scaling reduction in the price could reach a level below 100 usd per Ton according to a company called carbon engineering. One study from Nov. 2018 says ccs methods have become much cheaper than benchmark costs, at 45 usd per Tonne. Never really considered sucking out stuff out of the atmosphere, so I'm really out of my element here. Obviously it would be dumb to suck stuff out and keep emitting, but I'd guess even the dumbest politicians would realize that 1-1+1 isn't a good equation, at least when climate change is already causing very obvious effects, like massive heat waves and weather extremes. Goons Are Gifts fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 18:47
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dream9!bed!! posted:The land use ones are the hardest to imagine will actually happen. How do you convince Indonesia not to level their rainforest for palm oil plantations? Through giving their people shitloads of Western money, that's how, and that's why (imo) it'll never happen. This is the thing that has been a big challenge to me (and also got me called a racist in the last thread). Westerners spent the last forever-hundreds of years exporting our consumer externalities and oppressing developing nations, told everyone that our life is the good life they should aspire to, and now that it ends up we were unsustainable, they have to be the ones to tighten their belts and never enjoy the lives we led and continue to lead. Most developing nations understandably ignore the gently caress out of us and keep industrializing / moving forward toward our unsustainable standard of living, and even if it destroys the world we have no moral high ground from which to tell them otherwise. What we need to do is open the goddamned checkbook and bypass all the industrialization stages, get them on full nuclear / renewables, etc etc, but we can't even do that at home let alone bring 3-4 billion people out of abject poverty and let them bypass their own equivalents to the industrial revolution. Want to save the planet? Pay the bill for China, India and the collective southeast asian nations to completely modernize their electrical generation and transit infrastructures. Otherwise even if you shutter every power plant and smash every car in the USA, you buy yourself 10-20 years tops before global emissions grow right back where they were before.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:54
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dream9!bed!! posted:The land use ones are the hardest to imagine will actually happen. How do you convince Indonesia not to level their rainforest for palm oil plantations? Through giving their people shitloads of Western money, that's how, and that's why (imo) it'll never happen. I love them, what does this have to do with exusing your own failures through doomsaying about the world ending.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:55
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Son of Rodney posted:I roughly remember some goon doing the math on this, and it was indeed quite unrealistic on the necessary scale. Hmmm. 400 GtC → 4e+17 grams of carbon --(graphite: 2.266 g/cm3)→ ~1.77e+17 cm3 cubes of graphite → ~5.6 km3 of graphite That's approximately 70 of these 1.35 km cubes: https://i.imgur.com/VmpjUPc.mp4 The real question is this: How do we synthesize a 5.6 km cube of graphite?
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Jan 25, 2019 19:06
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drilldo squirt posted:I love them, what does this have to do with exusing your own failures through doomsaying about the world ending. Did you read it? The paper describes a situation that sounds like the end of the world to me. Is your question why climate scientists are such cuck failures?
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Jan 25, 2019 19:09
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Accretionist posted:
by letting the biology & geology of the entire earth run for a few hundred million years then dig up all the carbon deposits and press them into a cube instead of burning them
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Jan 25, 2019 20:00
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dream9!bed!! posted:Did you read it? The paper describes a situation that sounds like the end of the world to me. Is your question why climate scientists are such cuck failures? No, sounds like you have been projecting your own biases onto me because I was disagreeing with you.
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Jan 26, 2019 01:58
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Some new dusty ray of hope: Germany plans demolition of their coal-sector. It's too slow and too late, but it finally starts happening: In 2038 the last German coal plant is supposed to be shutdown forever. If this plan can be executed successfully, hopefully other countries will start tearing down their coal power plants, too!
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Jan 26, 2019 11:23
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Given that the same strategy (for better or worse) worked quite well in getting rid of nuclear plants, this is some sign of hope that politics can do something necessary like that. It's also a huge step since more than 30% of Germany's energy comes from coal. However, clean coal in America on the other hand... 
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Jan 26, 2019 12:55
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An unsurprising note for the doomheads out there: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/01/coal-will-remain-part-of-the-us-grid-until-2050-federal-energy-projections-say/
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Jan 26, 2019 18:33
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Insanite posted:An unsurprising note for the doomheads out there: These projections are actually exceptionally bad and basically suggest that we'll still be around 50% fossil fuels by 2050. I'm not even pessimistic enough to believe that's going to be the case, because that's just catastrophic.
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Jan 26, 2019 23:06
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 https://twitter.com/MiguelCoulier/status/1088742358101835776
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Jan 26, 2019 23:07
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Only liking third worlders in poverty.. Welcome
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Jan 26, 2019 23:13
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Paradoxish posted:These projections are actually exceptionally bad and basically suggest that we'll still be around 50% fossil fuels by 2050. I'm not even pessimistic enough to believe that's going to be the case, because that's just catastrophic. I guess given the nature of politics this can seem very likely, but also both technology and several countries have already proven that it is indeed possible to have a relatively quick change towards renewables in general, if there is the political will of doing so. However, especially the current political climate seems to make these projections, let's call it, undesirably likely.
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Jan 26, 2019 23:22
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‘Everything is not going to be okay’: How to live with constant reminders that the Earth is in troublequote:You grew up wearing a winter jacket under your Halloween costume in Buffalo, and now your kids don’t have to. This hit close to home. I grew up and still live in a suburb of Buffalo, and I remember frost on the ground in September waiting for the school bus. These days it doesn't even start to get cold in the morning until mid-October. It's January now and we had just had our first serious snowfall of the season a few days ago. quote:If you have an infant daughter, she is expected to live 81.1 years, and so she will be here for 2100, a year that is no longer mythical ... During her lifetime, the oceans will acidify at a rate not seen in 66 million years. One research team suggests that by her 29th birthday, there will be no more saltwater fish. Holy poo poo.
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Jan 27, 2019 01:17
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Jesus Christ, that's bleak. I mean... sure, we may not have fish in the ocean, but we'll farm them in massive watertight skyscrapers. Cheers! 
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Jan 27, 2019 02:03
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Paradoxish posted:These projections are actually exceptionally bad and basically suggest that we'll still be around 50% fossil fuels by 2050. I'm not even pessimistic enough to believe that's going to be the case, because that's just catastrophic. That’s BAU for you. But yes, that analysis assumes no climate laws will be enforced, including existing ones.
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Jan 27, 2019 02:29
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According to some, I guess that's more than enough. We can just release them in the oceans if we need them back in there, right? Actually let's do the same with the insects, we'll have climate change solved in no time! 
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Jan 27, 2019 02:30
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What are the rates at which wind / solar power generation can currently be produced and installed? Edit: and the rate of change of those rates if it's been determined.
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Jan 27, 2019 02:33
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Wouldn't those rates really be functions of political will? I'd imagine we could blacken the sky with turbines if we decided that climate change was at least as threatening as Hitler.
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Jan 27, 2019 03:31
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Completely talking out of my rear end here, but given that to some degree even renewable generators of any sort need quite an amount of semiconductors, rare earth elements and generally various amounts of very different metals and raw materials, including a very functioning high-value chemical industry, there are natural limits and most likely even limits on when (in short-term) it's better to keep a coal plant online for a short while than meeting the prerequisites to produce the technology needed for massive amounts of generators. However, based on the sheer power wind has more or less everywhere, not to mention solar panels, you technically could be able to realistically get a very high percentage of our electricity out of them. Looking how several countries built up their commitment to that in a matter of 15 to 20 years, I'd guess that would be a realistic time frame in general in which the industry is able to solidly produce the required things and everyone working on it properly. Probably a lot shorter if people would treat climate change like a danger for national security.
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Jan 27, 2019 03:45
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BrandorKP posted:What are the rates at which wind / solar power generation can currently be produced and installed? You can probably find those numbers from EIA.
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Jan 27, 2019 03:48
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I wish these folks the best, but holy hell is it depressing that we still have articles like this running in 2019: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/01/27/climate-change-politics-224295 It does bring up something that Naomi Klein described in Capitalism vs. the Climate, though: that denialists by and large bluster not because of ignorance or disagreement on science, but because climate change is a byproduct of capitalism, and that addressing it will mean destroying capitalism, too. They want to protect the order that's made them prosperous, the world be damned. Nothing earthshattering, but the Klein thing is a good long-form read for a Sunday. Insanite fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 15:47
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i am genuinely surprised there are not (more?) eco-terrorists
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Jan 27, 2019 19:11
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Most terrorists are eco/animal rights terrorists dude. I got told that at an FBI run anti terrorism briefing.
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Jan 27, 2019 19:20
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Gamerofthegame posted:i am genuinely surprised there are not (more?) eco-terrorists give it time... some off shoot of extinction rebellion or similar will get there.
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Jan 27, 2019 19:23
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BrandorKP posted:Most terrorists are eco/animal rights terrorists dude. I got told that at an FBI run anti terrorism briefing. Right-wing nutjobs have the best fantasy world. You can't swing a stick without hitting a socialist or eco-terrorist.
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Jan 27, 2019 20:24
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I'd still say we should change the thread title in the having no insects anymore thing. This was the shocker of the year so far.
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Jan 27, 2019 20:32
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Accretionist posted:You can't swing a stick without hitting a socialist or eco-terrorist. ALF and ELF are considered terrorist groups by the FBI.
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Jan 27, 2019 20:52
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Goons Are Great posted:I'd still say we should change the thread title in the having no insects anymore thing. This was the shocker of the year so far. What's this now?
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Jan 27, 2019 21:06
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BrandorKP posted:ALF and ELF are considered terrorist groups by the FBI. I've met a couple elf folk in my travels. I have met two different cells that (allegedly) bored holes all along dapl. Bad pipe got buried. Not built to spec. The necessity defence is a frequent topic. I'm rare, having never been on papers. E: there is a lot of diversity, and a variety of moral codes and levels of radicalization. I like the non-violent direct actions, abstain from arson, love sabu cat, etc. The more oppressed, the more radicalized. Operating by consensus helps. Avoid schism and groupthink. Uglycat fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 21:14
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RC Cola posted:What's this now? Just google "insects gone".
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Jan 27, 2019 21:18
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It's seriously hosed up. I live in the mosquito capital of North America and we had like no bugs this year. No mosquitoes. No butterflies. No bees. Not even black flies. They really are just gone.
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Jan 27, 2019 21:26
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Oh it was an article that got posted like 14 pages back and it lit up some very intensive discussion, as even some originally optimistic people saw some very unforgiving truth. Here it is: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/15/insect-collapse-we-are-destroying-our-life-support-systems There also were additional links to more articles from specific science magazines regarding this matter, as this is one of the darkest discoveries about the very now and very live climate change so far.
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Jan 27, 2019 21:36
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After 9-11 and I'm talking 2002... yep they were still getting more attention than everything else apparently.
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Jan 27, 2019 21:42
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Uglycat posted:Operating by consensus helps. Avoid schism and groupthink. I learned a great deal about that (consensus desicion making) from my wife who got it at seminary. Confuses the hell out of my maritime industry colleagues. But I'm bringing some of them around on it.
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Jan 27, 2019 21:51
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BrandorKP posted:Most terrorists are eco/animal rights terrorists dude. I got told that at an FBI run anti terrorism briefing. Which probably means we should immediately discount it. Remember they labeled the Black Panther Party as terrorists too.
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Jan 27, 2019 23:09
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friendbot2000 posted:Which probably means we should immediately discount it. Remember they labeled the Black Panther Party as terrorists too. The FBI of the late sixties and seventies is not the one of the 2000s. It's trivally easily to set up something to save all the posts from a thread like this and put them into spreadsheet and then to send one a notification when certain key words pop up.
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Jan 28, 2019 02:02
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That's ridiculous. The NSA are the ones who are saving our posts--the FBI agent is the poster saying that maybe we should all post about the eco-terrorism that we've done and will do. Anyhow, I bet the Utah Data Center has a massive carbon footprint.
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Jan 28, 2019 03:00
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EvilJoven posted:It's seriously hosed up. I live in the mosquito capital of North America and we had like no bugs this year. Same here in Denmark. Last summer we had basically no mosquitoes, no bees, no wasps, no butterflies, no ladybugs, only very few flies. Usually I am absolutely sucked dry by mosquitoes, last summer I barely had any bites at all. And everyone is just like "oh what a great insect-free summer! " and "well, it was very warm and dry, so they'll probably be back next year ".
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Jan 28, 2019 14:22
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