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dead comedy forums posted:It's just that imho, he (Kennedy) doesn't fundamentally get the combination of narrative and gameplay, as if the medium of gaming is basically merely a vessel for the stories he wants to tell. That would explain why he doesn't get the complaints about grind, difficulty and failure: many good stories have lots of adversity, struggle and incomprehension of the whole, but in an interactive medium, the story you want to tell can only carry itself until a certain point. You need game, and game demands time and effort from the people playing it. Not only that, but the grind goes against the narrative, because I don't know about the rest of people but once the grind starts in the game, I stop reading the lore tidbits, even if maybe I still haven't read all of them. Which is a waste given that most people agrees that's what he is good at.
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Jan 25, 2019 10:05
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the complaints about the gameplay are valid and yeah he doesn't really get games, i think. but i feel the intent is less constructing a singular narrative than building a world anyway. not really meant to reveal a plot so much as to allow you to describe elements of the universe and let you tease out or imagine the connections between them. there's a bunch of "this is so" but plenty of intentional blank space. i mean you can dedicate your entire cult to the study of mutually contradictory histories of the world, it doesn't really jive with a canonical executive summary at the end. so it doesn't work as a book either. the best analogue i guess would be a d&d game, a setting with defined elements that you populate collaboratively with your own story, with all the limitations that entails.
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Jan 25, 2019 10:30
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Of course! Thank you.
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Jan 25, 2019 10:56
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You could probably make a decent tabletop game out of Cultist Simulator. I started a Change run immediately before the update, going for a Heart ascension. I've been dancing regularly and a couple of times had the Scar verb turn up but it hasn't actually given me any scars, and I think it hasn't consumed health. Am I doing something wrong or is it a bug in the new patch?
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Jan 25, 2019 11:02
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Gameplay-wise, CultSim has one thing to keep the player engaged, but that's an effective one: multiple desynchronized timers that create the illusion of a perpetual cliffhanger, not entirely unlike Civilization's infamous "one more turn" effect. That's why there are so many reviews that mention the reviewer playing for hours/until morning without noticing it.
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Jan 25, 2019 11:50
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In my first fumbling game I accidentally got promoted at Glover and Glover after Mr. Ailden retired and lived out a nice, peaceful life. I'm still incredibly confused by what I'm doing but I didn't completely gently caress up and die so 
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Jan 25, 2019 14:39
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Carcer posted:In my first fumbling game I accidentally got promoted at Glover and Glover after Mr. Ailden retired and lived out a nice, peaceful life. I did the same. I also managed to “win” by completing the cop chain, and got promoted to inspector, long before I figured out how to enter the Mansus
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Jan 25, 2019 16:00
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Tenebrais posted:I started a Change run immediately before the update, going for a Heart ascension. I've been dancing regularly and a couple of times had the Scar verb turn up but it hasn't actually given me any scars, and I think it hasn't consumed health. Am I doing something wrong or is it a bug in the new patch? Seems like a bug, I earned three scars normally just yesterday. 
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Jan 25, 2019 17:17
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Chalk me up as another person that sat down at night to try this for a bit and didn't really even notice the sun coming up.  I love the little narratives your cultist-characters get up to, on top of all the wonderful implied lore and indirect world-building. 1st Culstist - Default start (menial laborer in an asylum, I think?). Enticed by the Lantern. Founded Mirror of Glory. Sacrificed only Health card on... something(? I think maybe as part of the founding ritual); claimed by untimely illness.* 2nd Cultist - Clever Young Thing (wealthy heiress). Seduced by the Grail. Never got to found her cult. Struck a deal with a mysterious patroness (Poppy Lascelles), who returned to claim a sacrifice for the Sun-in-Rags. (Here I discovered Hirelings could not be offered up as sacrifice.) Killed by cultists, for reasons unknown. 3rd Cultist - Doctor. Founded Society of the Holy Wound. I suspect I may have made it harder on myself trying to go this route; so far I have explored deep into dream but have yet to find a way to upgrade my Fascination. (I know how to change it, but I figure my doctor-man's entire motivation is about Power.) Currently neglecting his doctorly duties to paint like a madman, to critical acclaim. Has already had to arrange the murder of one police officer. Which is a fun mini-story in and of itself: one of my Disciples was injured during an expedition. The healing gave him an Aspect of Winter, though - which my otherwise Knock-oriented mage-burglars solely lack. So this guy's near-brush with death made him into a literally cold-hearted killer for my cult.  *Is there a way, having gone down to zero Health, to get another? All the routes I've discovered require already having at least one to work with. (I assume the answer is "magic," in which case, I still haven't quite got there.)
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Jan 25, 2019 19:03
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Ghost of Starman posted:*Is there a way, having gone down to zero Health, to get another? All the routes I've discovered require already having at least one to work with. (I assume the answer is "magic," in which case, I still haven't quite got there.) A bunch of things will pop a Vitality now and then, but few that are reliable and easily repeatable. You can draw them from the Well in the Wood, probably the most accessible. Though if your health skill is already high and you've somehow managed to run out anyway... might as well give up. There is a sort of magic that can turn decrepitudes back into health, and a pretty accessible one too.
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Jan 25, 2019 20:13
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Sometimes you also get lucky and whenever you do something that involves Health a Heart Verb appears to give you a bonus Vitality. The most sure-fire ways of getting a Vitality is to Study your Health (which does not exhaust your health) and manual labor, which does. If you Dream with your exhausted health you get it back faster and this also has a chance of popping a Vitality. Study and work on health at once and you get a couple vitalities and you'll be on your way to maxing out your health.
Speedball fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 20:24
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Starman's specifically asking about what to do if you don't have any Health, is the thing.
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Jan 25, 2019 20:57
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Yeah - it seems like a particularly nasty trap, and it's what ended my first (admittedly hapless) cultist's run. (Default start has only one each of Reason, Passion, and Health; and I think founding the Lantern cult costs one Health as a sacrifice?) I think I've encountered most of the other ways that pop out a Vitality w/out needing a Health to begin with, and they seem random and scattershot enough that I'd be kinda surprised if the first doesn't decay while you're trying to nab a second. Oh well! - easy enough to avoid once you know it's a potential pitfall. Cultist's gotta watch that cardio, I guess. Ghost of Starman fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 22:41
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Ghost of Starman posted:Yeah - it seems like a particularly nasty trap, and it's what ended my first (admittedly hapless) cultist's run. (Default start has only one each of Reason, Passion, and Health; and I think founding the Lantern cult costs one Health as a sacrifice?) I think I've encountered most of the other ways that pop out a Vitality w/out needing a Health to begin with, and they seem random and scattershot enough that I'd be kinda surprised if the first doesn't decay while you're trying to nab a second. Nah, Forge, but that's temporary, you have to burn yourself to be branded a Forge cultist, but you can heal that back.
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Jan 25, 2019 22:53
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Hmm... I wonder what I lost my lone health to, then, because I legit cannot remember. I'm pretty sure the Illness that killed me was the first one I'd ever seen, but my three cultists' lives are starting to blend together. I also had a question about Expeditions... If none of your Followers have the right Aspects to get past an obstacle, it gives you the option to keep throwing money at the problem. I nearly bankrupted myself the first time I tried this, because it seemed to basically be stuck endlessly between "we can't get past this thing" & "you can add more funds to try and get past this thing." Is it possible to brute-force your way through an Expedition with enough money? If not, it seems really frustrating that the game lets you throw your entire fortune into that pit with no feedback that it's hopeless.
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Jan 25, 2019 23:25
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If this was closer to release, a mistake a lot of people made was to use a stat card in the "trappings" slot when inducting cult members. Because stats have the "ingredient" aspect this consumed them. I think this behaviour got patched at some point? At no point was it necessary to put anything in that slot. e: All the expedition hazards will tell you how they can be defeated. The first thing you should do when you start an expedition is check what the hazards are and get a suitable squad in there ASAP. I think some people like to scout with hirelings, but that's not really necessary if you know what you're doing and have a deep bench. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 23:35
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Ghost of Starman posted:I also had a question about Expeditions... Yeah, you have like a 10% chance of passing any obstacle even without the right aspects. Some obstacles will injure your followers though.
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Jan 25, 2019 23:37
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Autonomous Monster posted:
Okay...I just opened the low file in my Weather Factory folder...and its a picture of Jesus. edit: and he's knocking on the door of the Mansus. edit 2: Got that NG+ game going. How the gently caress do I make money? I can barely keep up just trying to get my new (old) cult team together. Yorkshire Pudding fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 00:07
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The major victory path no longer holds any challenge for me, just time to be used up. So I'm asking a specific question to save some time. I've killed my rival Long, and my first guess at where to use the compass didn't work. Someone please spoil me before I spend 6 hours at the Peacock Door to explore all of the islands again. In the Forge Major Ascension, where do you send the Compass? I sent one to the Vienna expedition (because that's where I think of when I read "Find the flaw in the place at the land's edge that has the same name in every History."). My (first) Compass didn't change aspects. Did I get hosed or is it found later on? TheBlandName fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 04:28
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Can I recruit enemy investigators into my cult? Trying to get Connie Lee to join my insane adventures.
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Jan 26, 2019 10:36
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Can I recruit enemy investigators into my cult? Trying to get Connie Lee to join my insane adventures. No. Though they can be made to see the light (to your detriment, possibly).
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Jan 26, 2019 10:41
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Kerisham
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Jan 26, 2019 11:06
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pedro0930 posted:No. Though they can be made to see the light (to your detriment, possibly). This just happened for me, actually. After having the lackadaisical detective murdered, he was replaced by one of the badass ones with Grim & Meticulous. My fevered painting sprees had put a lot of Notoriety on the board, and the Evidence the detective had assembled was still hanging around, so I was worried he was going to start putting my cult behind bars the next time a Season of Suspicion came around. So, since the Grim Aspect kind of hinted at it... I invited him to a friendly chat and shared some of my Dread with him. Just like that he cracked, quit the force... and immediately showed up as a Rival. :P Apparently I clued him into a bit too much of the arcane mysteries in trying to spook him. Now that that's happened, shouldn't it be possible to recruit him? Talk with Cult + Rival seems to suggest it's at least possible. (Thanks all for the feedback on Expeditions; apparently I just picked a really bad one to try first, while my cult basically only had access to Knock. Still think it could use a little more feedback for the player when you're in the position of bashing your head against an Obstacle you don't have the right Aspects for.) Ghost of Starman fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 11:58
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Ghost of Starman posted:(Thanks all for the feedback on Expeditions; apparently I just picked a really bad one to try first, while my cult basically only had access to Knock. Still think it could use a little more feedback for the player when you're in the position of bashing your head against an Obstacle you don't have the right Aspects for.) Try clicking the little obstacle icons in the corner-- they're available right after the first cycle.
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Jan 26, 2019 12:35
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In my defense, I did figure that out while that first abortive expedition was still going. I just find it frustrating that you can't see them until after you've already committed to it, and you can't even try to nab a hireling to fill a crucial Aspect requirement (because your Explore is tied up with the Expedition). So it's basically binary whether you will or won't be able to succeed based on your roster of cultists when you started, unless I'm missing something. (Maybe summoning will make that easier, I'unno.) (And my experience of the early game was that Disciples only gained the Aspect of my cult, so I wasn't even sure how to broaden my roster's talent pool. That's gotten a lot better recently, though.)
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Jan 26, 2019 21:51
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Actually not binary. it's graded on a scale of whether your aspect is 1-10, 10 being the highest possible chance of defeating the obstacle (like say 10 Edge gives you the maximum chance of killing mortal Watchers). It used to be 10 was 100% chance of victory but they nerfed it slightly to 90%, still worth it. You may need to get a lot of followers or a good hireling to send.
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Jan 26, 2019 21:55
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Ghost of Starman posted:In my defense, I did figure that out while that first abortive expedition was still going. I just find it frustrating that you can't see them until after you've already committed to it, and you can't even try to nab a hireling to fill a crucial Aspect requirement (because your Explore is tied up with the Expedition). You need to be able to get enough level of your cult's aspect to level up cultist. You can level up anyone with your cult's lore but cultists of your own lore already has some of the aspect themselves so it's easier to level them.
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Jan 26, 2019 22:28
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pedro0930 posted:You need to be able to get enough level of your cult's aspect to level up cultist. You can level up anyone with your cult's lore but cultists of your own lore already has some of the aspect themselves so it's easier to level them. Yyyes? Ohhh, I think I see what happened: I've been under a misapprehension about how promoting people works. The first two that showed up for my Sacred Wound cult were Enid and Neville (the two Knock followers, naturally) - so that's all they gained. And other than a Pawn they were all I had for a while. So I thought "levelling someone up in the cult" = "giving someone or adding to the Cult's Aspect". Now (if I'm understanding right) it's "revealing or increasing the Aspect that is always associated with that character / that type of Pawn" - and the cult's Aspect only matters because it makes it easier to promote those people who natively share that Aspect. Thank you for clarifying that - the mysteries continue to unfurl! Can someone confirm whether the specific kind of Lore you use with the Talk action affects which Acquaintance pops up? I.e., did I attract the Knock followers first because the Knock lore was all I had to start? In the world of my first promising run: the Detective-turned-My-Rival, Zachary, has targeted the Hunter Connie Lee who popped up to replace him. This, after she survived my Bombmaker Hireling's first attempt on her life. I like the implication that Ms. Lee is the protagonist of a different story, parallel to my own, and no doubt full of plucky resolve and prim rejection of her society's gender expectations.
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Jan 26, 2019 23:13
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Ghost of Starman posted:Can someone confirm whether the specific kind of Lore you use with the Talk action affects which Acquaintance pops up? I.e., did I attract the Knock followers first because the Knock lore was all I had to start? It makes no difference at all, as far as I can tell. Ghost of Starman posted:In my defense, I did figure that out while that first abortive expedition was still going. I just find it frustrating that you can't see them until after you've already committed to it, and you can't even try to nab a hireling to fill a crucial Aspect requirement (because your Explore is tied up with the Expedition). I think you might be overlooking the fact that the penalty for a failed Expedition is almost always trivial, and you can retry them as many times as you want. The Challenges are the same every time, so just think of the first run as casing the joint. The only major risk in failing Expeditions is Curses, which only some of them have, but permanently eat one of your basic stats when you fail them. They are (I think) always the last Challenge in an Expedition when they're present though, so if you see one that you can't handle, you can often still avoid it by intentionally failing earlier Challenges and coming home. It also sounds kind of like you're trying to run a Cult of 2 people. Except for time, there's no cost to spamming Talk -> Lore in the early game until you've met every goth teenager in town. There is a cap on how many you can recruit, but it's high- it's really not difficult to have at least 1 Cultist in every Aspect. Avasculous fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 00:05
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I'm the sort of player who likes to wait until I have everyone recruited and at Disciple to do expeditions, but gently caress me if that doesn't take forever.
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Jan 27, 2019 00:38
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part of my problem is i sort of forget to talk about lore to recruit more people frequently so i end up bumping against my lack of real help at times until i remember 'oh poo poo maybe i should be doing this more often' by that point i'm good enough to be able to rank them up immediately after inducting them anyways so it doesn't take forever, but, yeah. lacking in those departments can only hurt you in the long run if you're ill-prepared.
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Jan 27, 2019 03:46
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I think the fact that getting up on your soapbox and ranting about occult secrets to anyone who will listen seems like it should be a really bad idea, and the fact that it generates Mystique, kinda discouraged me from doing it too much at first. But I've come to basically disregard Mystique as a thing to be worried about, so my cult has been growing at a pretty decent pace. But yes, for a long time it was just me, the two Knock kids, and a Pawn with a pittance of Edge. 
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Jan 27, 2019 12:43
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To make sure I understand this properly, ranking up cultists "just" requires having a lore compatible with your cult at the right aspect level? I accidentally subverted my lvl 8 lantern lore trying to make it stronger and now I can't level anyone up.Ghost of Starman posted:I think the fact that getting up on your soapbox and ranting about occult secrets to anyone who will listen seems like it should be a really bad idea, and the fact that it generates Mystique, kinda discouraged me from doing it too much at first. But I've come to basically disregard Mystique as a thing to be worried about, so my cult has been growing at a pretty decent pace. But yes, for a long time it was just me, the two Knock kids, and a Pawn with a pittance of Edge. Yeah this was me for a long time. I was sure if I did it I'd get notoriety, and this was before I really understood how murder hunters. I still don't know how else you deal with them. Carcer fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 12:45
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Carcer posted:To make sure I understand this properly, ranking up cultists "just" requires having a lore compatible with your cult at the right aspect level? I accidentally subverted my lvl 8 lantern lore trying to make it stronger and now I can't level anyone up. Well, you need enough of your cult's Aspect present in the ritual. Whether that comes from the Lore (i.e., the particular rite you're using), the person themself (unlikely, but properly-aligned cultists do contribute enough to make it easier) and/or the "Trappings" (which can be a lot of things, but powerful Resonances seem like the most likely way to add a lot of your desired Aspect at once), doesn't matter.
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Jan 27, 2019 15:14
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Carcer posted:
IIRC, the hint text for Talk -> Lore actually warns you it might attract the wrong kind of attention. There's a few really misleading lines like that- I'm guessing they're from changing the mechanics and forgetting to reword the hints, but with Alexis Kennedy it's equally likely that being blatantly misled is "part of the game experience." Another one is Opium, for which the game says something like "WARNING: this is an expensive and risky way to try to gain Contentment!" I've used it probably 200 times and I don't think I've ever gotten anything from it but Contentment, and sometimes a Glimmering. And the only cheaper ways to get Contentment are slower and genuinely risky. Other ways to deal with hunters: There's a few ways to murder them and they can also be driven insane. The problem with the former is that they tend to quickly get replaced with another hunter, who can be more dangerous. The problem with the latter is that they turn into an Adversary, which is a lot more annoying/dangerous than a hunter. Frankly, with investigations, I don't think there's any reason to do anything except destroy evidence. It has lighter consequences than trying to murder the hunter, and it's not any harder to do. I think they should do something like split the evidence into multiple cards, so that murdering the hunter is riskier, but also much faster.
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Jan 27, 2019 22:52
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Avasculous posted:IIRC, the hint text for Talk -> Lore actually warns you it might attract the wrong kind of attention. There's a few really misleading lines like that- I'm guessing they're from changing the mechanics and forgetting to reword the hints, but with Alexis Kennedy it's equally likely that being blatantly misled is "part of the game experience." That actual quote is quote:Talking publicly about the invisible arts will attract attention. Perhaps that's what I want. So, not "wrong" attention, just attention, and it implies that this attention might be something you want. Opium is weird. I've always wondered if it occasionally spawns a sickness tile and I just haven't noticed. e: Checking Frangiclave, it can spawn Sickness AND Despair (the tile, not a Dread card), both with a 10% chance. But those pop up so often anyway... and if you're buying opium it's probably because Despair is already active... KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 23:38
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I’d love a few more ways to deal with evidence. Right now, it’s either moth or nothing. At a minimum, I’d like to use maybe grail or knock instead. In more complex, it would be nice to use a disciple or summon to either degrade the case (damning to regular, regular to notoriety), or maybe pay off the case. You could balance that with generating the usual bad effects if you fail. E: I finally got to start my first new game + last night, and man is it more fun and tense than regular. Dealing with the adversaries gradually increasing attacks is a fun new challenge, but also offers me a convenient place to drop some of my summons that I have to have talk to one another during downtime. I almost ate it early, because the adversary drained all my bank accounts before I could get to R3H3P3, so I was in a mad scramble to keep working health just to stay alive long enough to buy some books from the bookstore. And then did eat it later, when I had a double fascination running, and adversary plus quiet streets dropped 2 more on the board, before I could get a winter lore. Dalaram fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 28, 2019 |
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Jan 28, 2019 00:24
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Honestly, hunters should act more like rivals in general, alongside the evidence stuff. Getting a weary detective and just constantly swiping his damming evidence out from under him has basically just been my hunter experience on the last two runs.
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Jan 28, 2019 01:23
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Autonomous Monster posted:That actual quote is Oh, yeah, I thought I remembered it being more negative than that. quote:Opium is weird. I've always wondered if it occasionally spawns a sickness tile and I just haven't noticed. Really? I wonder if that's up to date. I googled and can't find any forum posts about it after June. I wasn't kidding, I pretty much use it every time Despair is at 2 or 3, since Elysium club actually is hit or miss and I'm almost positive I've never gotten a negative outcome. Varinn posted:Honestly, hunters should act more like rivals in general, alongside the evidence stuff. Getting a weary detective and just constantly swiping his damming evidence out from under him has basically just been my hunter experience on the last two runs. Yeah, mine too. It's kind of silly that even succeeding with other approaches is worse than failing at destroying evidence.
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Jan 28, 2019 01:55
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Avasculous posted:Really? The dev is pretty active on the discord. All the new apostle/new game+ content is already on there. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if I didn't notice these bad outcomes. I usually find I have a very high awareness of what cards a tile produces as its output, but a much, much lower awareness of when tiles spawn other, new tiles (which is what's supposedly happening here). Especially when the board gets really hectic.
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Jan 28, 2019 02:23
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